Returning deposit to tenant

Cath54

Is the deposit returned to the tenant in cash on the day they vacate or is it better practice to arrange refund by bank transfer? Tenant always paid rent by bank transfer so I'm thinking we should issue refund of deposit by same method?
Relations with the tenant have deteriorated since notice was served 9 months ago so we want to make sure things are handled properly.
Haven't done this before so any advice would be appreciated.

Regardless of the method used do not return it until the tenant has moved out, handed back the keys and you have done a full and detailed inspection of the property.

awec

Give it back the same way they gave it to you, whenever they give you back the keys.

January

What way did they give you the deposit and first months rent? If it was cash, return the deposit by cash but get a receipt with their signature stating you have returned their deposit in full (less any deductions and list these if there are any).

Cath54

First month rent was cash. I don't envisage any deduction in deposit. I expect there will be wear and tear but sure that is to be expected. Is there anything else I should look out for?
The reason I hesitated to refund by cash is that I suspect the tenant will not be there on the day. Feel unsure about giving tenants cash back to a third party we don't know. Maybe I'm just overthinking it?

GGTrek

Cath54 wrote: »

First month rent was cash. I don't envisage any deduction in deposit. I expect there will be wear and tear but sure that is to be expected. Is there anything else I should look out for?
The reason I hesitated to refund by cash is that I suspect the tenant will not be there on the day. Feel unsure about giving tenants cash back to a third party we don't know. Maybe I'm just overthinking it?

Do not return the deposit in cash, especially if you gave the termination notice and you are not parting amicably with the tenant. Ask for an IBAN where the tenant is the beneficiary of the account and return by bank transfer, in this way if anything happens later on, you have solid proof of the devolution of the deposit. I never accepted a single payment in cash from my tenants and it was the best decision I have ever made. When the s..t hits the fan, the bank statements will show who says the truth and who lies. You won't believe the lies some tenants make up when they act in bad faith since perjury is almost impossible to prosecute in the Irish legal system.
Another bad suggestion above was to return the deposit as soon as the tenant returns the keys. Absolutely do not do it! Take photos of everything and check them again and compare them with the ones when the tenant entered the property, sometimes you assume furniture was already in bad state, but in reality was in great state when delivered and after two years you have to throw it away because tenant could not care less. Another important point are the utility bills, I want to see them paid before I return a deposit. Some naive posters here will say: "but they are not in the landlord's name", a few utility companies will cause you major aggravations if the tenant leaves bills unpaid (landlord is always the easiest cash cow target).

awec

If I were a tenant I would expect my deposit back when I give back the keys. I would expect the landlord to inspect the property at that point. I would not leave without getting my deposit back because at the end of the day once I walk away how am I to know if I'll ever get it back at all or if I'll have to waste time and effort going through a dispute?

Walk around and inspect with the tenant and explain any deductions you are making, it makes you a lot more credible rather than ringing them later with a list of things you want them to pay for. If you need to remind yourself of what it looked like beforehand then bring the photos with you.

awec

awec wrote: »

If I were a tenant I would expect my deposit back when I give back the keys. I would expect the landlord to inspect the property at that point. I would not leave without getting my deposit back because at the end of the day once I walk away how am I to know if I'll ever get it back at all or if I'll have to waste time and effort going through a dispute?

Walk around and inspect with the tenant and explain any deductions you are making, it makes you a lot more credible rather than ringing them later with a list of things you want them to pay for. If you need to remind yourself of what it looked like beforehand then bring the photos with you.

It's perfectly reasonable to get the deposit back 2 or 3 days after moving out. It's a very bad idea to do the inspection in front of the tenant, it should be done in detail after the tenant has fully moved out. You need time to do it correctly, take photos and document everything.

awec

Malani Tasteless Pink wrote: »

It's perfectly reasonable to get the deposit back 2 or 3 days after moving out. It's a very bad idea to do the inspection in front of the tenant, it should be done in detail after the tenant has fully moved out. You need time to do it correctly, take photos and document everything.

No it isn't. Would the landlord be happy to get the deposit 2 or 3 days after the tenant moves in?

Do it at the same time you give the keys back, it's more than reasonable and much less shady.

Cath54

Many thanks for all your replies, I really appreciate you all taking the time to post .

GGTrek

awec wrote: »

If I were a tenant I would expect my deposit back when I give back the keys. I would expect the landlord to inspect the property at that point. I would not leave without getting my deposit back because at the end of the day once I walk away how am I to know if I'll ever get it back at all or if I'll have to waste time and effort going through a dispute?

Walk around and inspect with the tenant and explain any deductions you are making, it makes you a lot more credible rather than ringing them later with a list of things you want them to pay for. If you need to remind yourself of what it looked like beforehand then bring the photos with you.

Your expectations are outsized and outside what the laws allow: a landlord is not expected to return the deposit as soon as keys are handed over (in no jurisdiction, even outside Ireland). If something is not right, I would expect the tenant to tell me before I discover it (never happens really, I once saw that a window was broken, I waited in vain for 6 weeks for the tenant to tell me, until I had to raise it myself!), even if I discover the issue on the spot (probably a big issue to be discovered on the spot), it would be impossible to provide a quote on the spot. In such case a delay of at least 7-14 days should be expected until quotes are received to repair or to substitute the item. Even worse are issue wish appliances: since I have to test them all (water heater, washing machine, dryer, kettle, heaters, all the damn things that the govvie wants me to provide to tenants) and it takes a while to test them, in addition I had tenants who left rubbish well hidden in common areas or in garden shed (since calling a skip company or taking rubbish to the Council recycling center costs time and money). Most tenants I had always thought they could get away by leaving broken things or useless stuff behind for the landlord to get rid of, in the past I used to absorb the loss if small (less than 200 euros) and pay for disposal, nowadays I have no mercy, since the govvie and the tenants have no mercy and they act in bad faith by doing this. Cleaning is another big issue, tenants think they cleaned, so I take photos and then call a professional cleaner and show them the photos before (i.e. their cr..y cleaning) and the professional one (especially stark contrast in kitchen and bathroom). So far only 1 out of 5 tenants of mine has managed to leave the apartment clean to a standard that can be rented afterwards. I checked with other landlords and it seems to be the same. Most tenants I met think: "I paid, my resposibilities terminate with the payment of the rent".
Sorry about what appears a rant, but I have to counter-argument very heavily against your expectations and suggestions. There are way too many posters in this forum with the same expectations and this is exactly what causes problems when deposit has to be returned: wrong expectations outside what the laws allows. The worst excuse is: I need the deposit as soon as I give the keys because I have to give it to another landlord. My thoughts are: "poor new landlord!" He/she clearly got a tenant who is either in bad faith or will have problems in paying rent later on.

GGTrek

By the way I have a professional cleaner that with 40 euros will really do a great job on a 1 bed apartment, I find landlords charging hundreds of euros for cleaning really acting in bad faith.

GGTrek

Answering your other very weak argument about paying the deposit after the tenant got the keys: with the law so in favour of the tenant after he gets the keys, it would be madness to do it. I am all in favour of deposit protection scheme. You will see how long it is going to take for the "poor" tenant to get the deposit back, even if the landlord decides that it is all fine. Look at the UK, 14 days would be a great timeframe for any UK tenant.

awec

GGTrek wrote: »

Answering your other very weak argument about paying the deposit after the tenant got the keys: with the law so in favour of the tenant after he gets the keys, it would be madness to do it. I am all in favour of deposit protection scheme. You will see how long it is going to take for the "poor" tenant to get the deposit back, even if the landlord decides that it is all fine. Look at the UK, 14 days would be a great timeframe for any UK tenant.

As someone who has rented in both the UK and Ireland I have always got my deposit back the day I moved out, without exception. Though I just looked up the rules and it seems you're right about the legal bit, so I concede my point!

I don't live in a dreamworld, there are plenty of awful tenants out there. Unfortunately there are plenty of awful landlords too. I think people should meet in the middle on things like this, I'd have no problem hanging around while a landlord checks whatever he wants to check.

That said, your experience does seem fairly bad so I can understand where you are coming from.

whatnext

awec wrote: »

As someone who has rented in both the UK and Ireland I have always got my deposit back the day I moved out, without exception. Though I just looked up the rules and it seems you're right about the legal bit, so I concede my point!

I don't live in a dreamworld, there are plenty of awful tenants out there. Unfortunately there are plenty of awful landlords too. I think people should meet in the middle on things like this, I'd have no problem hanging around while a landlord checks whatever he wants to check.

That said, your experience does seem fairly bad so I can understand where you are coming from.

As a landlord in the U.K. I know the DPS don't work that quickly. Usually a 5 to 10 day turnaround in my experience

awec

whatnext wrote: »

As a landlord in the U.K. I know the DPS don't work that quickly. Usually a 5 to 10 day turnaround in my experience

DPS is England and Wales only right? I haven't rented in England or Wales so that probably explains that!

whatnext

awec wrote: »

DPS is England and Wales only right? I haven't rented in England or Wales so that probably explains that!

My deposit Scotland is 5 days, but generally takes 8 by the time the tenant has cleared funds in their account