Croke Park Hours : 33 or 45 hours?

moonchore

Can anyone clarify the exact number CP hours in an academic year?
I was sure it was 33, but our principal told us today that it is in fact 45 hours (minus 10 discretionary hours). He seems adamant about this and is adding the new hours to the schedule.
Any clarification or information would be appreciated. (It's an ETB school)

Benicetomonty

moonchore wrote: »

Can anyone clarify the exact number CP hours in an academic year?
I was sure it was 33, but our principal told us today that it is in fact 45 hours (minus 10 discretionary hours). He seems adamant about this and is adding the new hours to the schedule.
Any clarification or information would be appreciated. (It's an ETB school)

45 hr figure arises from a previous circular that determined 3 parent teacher meetings had to take place outside of school hrs. So whatever the dispersion of CP hrs is, 3 of the 5 or 6 PT meetings cant be used against them. My understanding anyway.

chocoholic999

I think 45 hours is correct, that's what we're doing. The 33 hrs is croke park, the other 12 includes 3 parent teacher meetings of three hrs each and 3 hrs staff meetings which both came from a previous agreement.

rainbowtrout

Croke Park hours are 33 hours. You can use up to 10 of these on a discretionary basis, e.g. certified inservice outside of school hours.

Is your principal just trying to pull a fast one to get ye to do more hours after school?

Bean Scoile

45 is the total number of hours that need to be done outside of school teaching time. It includes the half in/half out staff meetings and parent teacher meetings that were brought in by benchmarking or sustaining progress agreement.

If there are 5 parent teacher meetings and 3 staff meeting included in what your principal is calling Croke park hours, then he/she is probably just rolling the hours together or getting confused over the terminology. If they are suggesting 45 hours plus the 12 from sustaining progress, then they are just wrong.

mirrorwall14

It depends on your method of counting. If you are excluding the older hours (PT/staff meetings half in half out) then it's 33. Including them the count is higher. Technically they shouldn't be called Croke park hours but they are hours that have to be done

ccazza

It doesn't necessarily have to add up to 45 either. The staff meetings 1 per term are half in half out so if the management decide to have a 1 hour meeting 30 minutes would be the old agreement and 30 minutes would be Croke Park. They could call a 3 hour meeting with 1 hour 30 old agreement and 1 hour 30 Croke Park etc

amacca

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Croke Park hours are 33 hours. You can use up to 10 of these on a discretionary basis, e.g. certified inservice outside of school hours.

Is your principal just trying to pull a fast one to get ye to do more hours after school?

Could that inservice be individual inservice? i.e.: could one teacher do 10 hours of individual inservice in their subject?

I was under the impression the 10 discretionary had to be whole school or subject group?

rainbowtrout

amacca wrote: »

Could that inservice be individual inservice? i.e.: could one teacher do 10 hours of individual inservice in their subject?

I was under the impression the 10 discretionary had to be whole school or subject group?

It can be individual. If you go off to an inservice given by the PDST in one of the education centres from 7-9pm some evening and get your cert of attendance you can count it.

acequion

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It can be individual. If you go off to an inservice given by the PDST in one of the education centres from 7-9pm some evening and get your cert of attendance you can count it.

I think most of us have better things to be doing from 7-9pm any evening.

rainbowtrout

acequion wrote: »

I think most of us have better things to be doing from 7-9pm any evening.

That's quite dismissive of teachers who go to inservice courses to upskill. God forbid they might want consider themselves as professional, and at the same time they can write it off against CP hours, given that they would have probably been going to the course anyway.

otwb1

acequion wrote:

I think most of us have better things to be doing from 7-9pm any evening.

You're right... unless you're someone who wants to expand their knowledge and has an interest in lifelong learning. I believe that evening degrees and night courses are quite popular - most people don't get to count them towards their working hours though.

acequion

Oh come off it you guys with your holier than thou attitude! I'm not long back from Italy where I was doing a language course in Italian,the second foreign language I've learned [I speak three] for no other reason than the pleasure of learning and achieving something. Will it qualify for CP hours? No it won't. Do I care? No I don't.

Now if you guys really want to do courses in the evening because ye enjoy them, good for ye and I'm not trying to personally belittle anybody. Where I'm coming from is my total opposition to the imposition of these punitive hours,regardless of how people deliver them. They are and always will be an unjust imposition on an already overworked profession.

rainbowtrout

acequion wrote: »

Oh come off it you guys with your holier than thou attitude! I'm not long back from Italy where I was doing a language course in Italian,the second foreign language I've learned [I speak three] for no other reason than the pleasure of learning and achieving something. Will it qualify for CP hours? No it won't. Do I care? No I don't.

Now if you guys really want to do courses in the evening because ye enjoy them, good for ye and I'm not trying to personally belittle anybody. Where I'm coming from is my total opposition to the imposition of these punitive hours,regardless of how people deliver them. They are and always will be an unjust imposition on an already overworked profession.

I qualified in a new subject a couple of years back. It was great to be able to go to an inservice where a bundle of resources were provided and some ideas on teaching topics etc. It wouldn't be often I'd go to an evening course, but I'm pretty disgusted that you'd look down on a teacher for wanting to upskill and make their lives easier in the classroom. Any time I've gone to an inservice in my local teacher centre, the inservice is fully subscribed.


People were long doing inservice courses before CP hours came in. People will continue to do inservice for themselves, but it is one small advantage to be able to count a course you would be doing anyway, instead of pointless hours in school sitting around doing very little.

acequion

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I qualified in a new subject a couple of years back. It was great to be able to go to an inservice where a bundle of resources were provided and some ideas on teaching topics etc. It wouldn't be often I'd go to an evening course, but I'm pretty disgusted that you'd look down on a teacher for wanting to upskill and make their lives easier in the classroom. Any time I've gone to an inservice in my local teacher centre, the inservice is fully subscribed.


People were long doing inservice courses before CP hours came in. People will continue to do inservice for themselves, but it is one small advantage to be able to count a course you would be doing anyway, instead of pointless hours in school sitting around doing very little.

Be disgusted away rainbowtrout! You obviously didn't read my relatively brief post enough to see my clear comment that I'm not trying to belittle anyone.However,people assuming that attending all these inservices somehow makes them a more professional or better teacher, now that I do have an issue with, because not only is it patronising which I find disgusting,it is also completely untrue.

Here are some realities for you to ponder,that is if you actually read my post this time:

1. There is no evidence anywhere to show that attending inservice positively impacts a teacher's performance in the classroom.

2. Some teachers actually prefer to spend their evenings marking and prepping.

3. More teachers prefer to spend their evenings engaged in a totally different activity: that's called switching off. Once upon a time it was highly recommended.

4. And yet more teachers don't have the luxury of doing either 1,2,3 or 4 because they're got to spend their evenings looking after a young or perhaps not so young family.

My point all along being summed up by the refrain "different strokes for different folks." If you're happy that you can use your activities for your CP hours,good for you. It doesn't change the fact that those hours are wrong and even more wrong if we are heading into a culture where teachers feel obligated to head out on winter's evenings to do something they plain don't want to in order to clock up these useless hours.

rainbowtrout

acequion wrote: »

However,people assuming that attending all these inservices somehow makes them a more professional or better teacher, now that I do have an issue with, because not only is it patronising which I find disgusting,it is also completely untrue.

So learning something new, or acquiring a new skill that could be used in the classroom cannot improve someone's teaching? Wow.

acequion wrote: »

Here are some realities for you to ponder,that is if you actually read my post this time:

1. There is no evidence anywhere to show that attending inservice positively impacts a teacher's performance in the classroom.

There's no evidence that it doesn't either

2. Some teachers actually prefer to spend their evenings marking and prepping.


Good for them

3. More teachers prefer to spend their evenings engaged in a totally different activity: that's called switching off. Once upon a time it was highly recommended.

Going to an inservice one night in the year doesn't mean a teacher can't switch off

4. And yet more teachers don't have the luxury of doing either 1,2,3 or 4 because they're got to spend their evenings looking after a young or perhaps not so young family.

And no one is forcing them to do any of the above

acequion wrote: »

My point all along being summed up by the refrain "different strokes for different folks." If you're happy that you can use your activities for your CP hours,good for you. It doesn't change the fact that those hours are wrong and even more wrong if we are heading into a culture where teachers feel obligated to head out on winter's evenings to do something they plain don't want to in order to clock up these useless hours.

Nobody is forcing anyone to attend evening inservices - they are not obligatory. People have been doing these of their own accord for years and years. If CP hours didn't exist people would still do these inservices, and people would still attend meetings and annual conferences and workshops provided by their subject associations. If they choose, they can now use these hours against CP hours, and avoid some of the more useless ones that are taking place in school. That's a point that you don't seem to understand.

acequion

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So learning something new, or acquiring a new skill that could be used in the classroom cannot improve someone's teaching? Wow.






Nobody is forcing anyone to attend evening inservices - they are not obligatory. People have been doing these of their own accord for years and years. If CP hours didn't exist people would still do these inservices, and people would still attend meetings and annual conferences and workshops provided by their subject associations. If they choose, they can now use these hours against CP hours, and avoid some of the more useless ones that are taking place in school. That's a point that you don't seem to understand.

And a point you dont seem to understand is the fundamental one that forcing those hours upon teachers, regardless of how they are delivered by any particular teacher, is wrong.You can argue back that they're part of the job now, most likely a permanent part, and you'd be right.But that doesnt change the fact that they are wrong and a source of stress and resentment which dies not augur well for the future.

Also you dont need to go to an inservice to pick up a new skill or useful teaching technique.There are several ways to do this such as informal chatting to colleagues about their methods, formal subject meetings which we all have and where we can all learn hugely from each other,researching methodologies on line.Or go to an inservice, but my point being its not the only or the best way.


Please stop being so obtuse and implying that I am somehow anti upskilling, further training, professional self improvement, when it is clear from my posts that I am not.

My issue is with these punitive, compulsory CP hours.

rainbowtrout

acequion wrote: »

And a point you dont seem to understand is the fundamental one that forcing those hours upon teachers, regardless of how they are delivered by any particular teacher, is wrong.You can argue back that they're part of the job now, most likely a permanent part, and you'd be right.But that doesnt change the fact that they are wrong and a source of stress and resentment which dies not augur well for the future.

Also you dont need to go to an inservice to pick up a new skill or useful teaching technique.There are several ways to do this such as informal chatting to colleagues about their methods, formal subject meetings which we all have and where we can all learn hugely from each other,researching methodologies on line.Or go to an inservice, but my point being its not the only or the best way.


Please stop being so obtuse and implying that I am somehow anti upskilling, further training, professional self improvement, when it is clear from my posts that I am not.

My issue is with these punitive, compulsory CP hours.

I never once said I was in favour of CP hours, which you seem to be implying. But you twisted my posts several times to suggest that teachers felt obliged to attend evening inservice which is not the case at all.

Like it or not, CP hours are here for the foreseeable future, and if teachers can use something they were already doing to offset those hours and make their own lives easier, I really don't see why anyone would have a problem with that.

acequion

rainbowtrout,you seem determined to turn this into a row! For the record I'm not trying to twist anything you write, nor am I implying that you are in favour of CP hours. I'm also not trying to offend you and think that like me going off on language courses during the summer purely for the enjoyment of it,if you enjoy an evening course,then good for you. Why would I want to belittle your activities?

Unfortunately those hateful hours are a source of conflict whatever way you look at them. They cause conflict on staffs,among the wider teacher population and here on line. So I will keep on campaigning against them and eventually a more enlightened political class might listen,but probably not any time soon.

Could we put this disagreement to bed now,please?

r93kaey5p2izun

We are actually being coerced into attending evening/weekend courses. The principal is insisting that only CPD courses can be used for the 10 hours. It's a massive headache. I can't actually find ten hours of relevant courses, not to mention that I have found all PDST courses to be very poor. At the moment I have found one course on Science coursework B that will do. I would prefer to attend the ISTA evening on Coursework B but he won't accept that. He also won't accept Féilte, the TC event in October. The project maths lesson study inservice is on during school days so couldn't count either.

solerina

Journey Sticky Locust wrote: »

We are actually being coerced into attending evening/weekend courses. The principal is insisting that only CPD courses can be used for the 10 hours. It's a massive headache. I can't actually find ten hours of relevant courses, not to mention that I have found all PDST courses to be very poor. At the moment I have found one course on Science coursework B that will do. I would prefer to attend the ISTA evening on Coursework B but he won't accept that. He also won't accept Fte, the TC event in October. The project maths lesson study inservice is on during school days so couldn't count either.

There is also a PDST biology course being run in various education centres this Oct + Nov, another 2 hours you could add in. It's 7-9 in the evening.
I agree, it's a disaster having to do these CP hours but I think it's great that the ten hours are available to offset some of them as I was attending these evening courses anyway, now they allow me avoid some of this whole staff nonsense.

acequion

solerina wrote: »

There is also a PDST biology course being run in various education centres this Oct + Nov, another 2 hours you could add in. It's 7-9 in the evening.
I agree, it's a disaster having to do these CP hours but I think it's great that the ten hours are available to offset some of them as I was attending these evening courses anyway, now they allow me avoid some of this whole staff nonsense.

There is another side to all that.

1. What about people who live in rural areas and have a lot of difficulty accessing these courses? Presumably online courses don't count? So the old urban /rural divide comes into play here with those in well equipped urban areas having a big advantage.

2.With these ten hours the onus is put on the teacher to find a course, any course, just to complete the hours. As I said in my argument with rainbowtrout,great if somebody has a course they like and would do anyway and it's easily accessible but what about the many others forced to spend evenings /weekends at something which may not even be worthwhile, just for the sake of it? That is exactly what Arlessienne is talking about. Before the 10 or 5 hour "concession" the onus was on the school management to provide the meeting /CPD. The teacher just had to be there.

So I think the ten hours will make it worse in many ways. I always sat at those meetings and corrected and prepped away. Now I'm in a large school so you'd get away with it,maybe not so much in a smaller school, but hours were completed and I got some of my "real work" done so I wasn't too unhappy.

And before some holier than thou poster accuses me of some big crime like being unprofessional during CP hours, let me remind people that CP hours are and always will be a teacher's detention. No more, no less!

r93kaey5p2izun

solerina wrote: »

There is also a PDST biology course being run in various education centres this Oct + Nov, another 2 hours you could add in. It's 7-9 in the evening.
I agree, it's a disaster having to do these CP hours but I think it's great that the ten hours are available to offset some of them as I was attending these evening courses anyway, now they allow me avoid some of this whole staff nonsense.

I have been to many PDST biology courses but they're hopeless in my experience. I also haven't had biology on my timetable in a few years and am unlikely to for the foreseeable future so it's not really ideal to have to attend such a course just for the sake of it.

I have no problem with the ten hours being able to be used for CPD but it's stupid forcing people to attend irrelevant or poor quality courses. I have no problem attending courses or conferences when worthwhile but they're few and far between and most are not run by PDST so are unacceptable to my principal.

mirrorwall14

Journey Sticky Locust wrote: »

We are actually being coerced into attending evening/weekend courses. The principal is insisting that only CPD courses can be used for the 10 hours. It's a massive headache. I can't actually find ten hours of relevant courses, not to mention that I have found all PDST courses to be very poor. At the moment I have found one course on Science coursework B that will do. I would prefer to attend the ISTA evening on Coursework B but he won't accept that. He also won't accept Féilte, the TC event in October. The project maths lesson study inservice is on during school days so couldn't count either.

Hang on, ye are doing 10hrs Croke park completely outside school for the discretionary hours? That's mad!

We have 7hrs of subject meetings we can have whenever we like during the school year with the only restriction that half must be done by Christmas. 2hrs of Committee work in school (SSE, literacy, numeracy, attendance etc) and 1hr program meeting (TY and LCA)

Your system sounds a bit nuts to be honest?

r93kaey5p2izun

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hang on, ye are doing 10hrs Croke park completely outside school for the discretionary hours? That's mad!

We have 7hrs of subject meetings we can have whenever we like during the school year with the only restriction that half must be done by Christmas. 2hrs of Committee work in school (SSE, literacy, numeracy, attendance etc) and 1hr program meeting (TY and LCA)

Your system sounds a bit nuts to be honest?

Yes it is a mess. We have subject meetings and committee meetings etc but they are just part of the usual CP hours we do most weeks. This is the first year we have got any of these non-whole school hours and really this is the principal being deliberately spiteful in making them as awkward as possible. He fought hard to retain complete control over all hours with every meeting (including subject departments, various committees) timetabled when he wanted with an agenda set by him. Now he has given the ten hours and made them a nightmare.

mirrorwall14

Journey Sticky Locust wrote: »

Yes it is a mess. We have subject meetings and committee meetings etc but they are just part of the usual CP hours we do most weeks. This is the first year we have got any of these non-whole school hours and really this is the principal being deliberately spiteful in making them as awkward as possible. He fought hard to retain complete control over all hours with every meeting (including subject departments, various committees) timetabled when he wanted with an agenda set by him. Now he has given the ten hours and made them a nightmare.

Wow. That's more than a little harsh.

We have to keep minutes and a running total in the department so that no one member doesn't complete their hours. To be honest we're maths (big dept) and will go way beyond the 7 allocated hours so we are planning on minuting everything this year so that the totals can be used in negotiations next year. Some of us have 3hrs done already!

judeboy101

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Wow. That's more than a little harsh.

We have to keep minutes and a running total in the department so that no one member doesn't complete their hours. To be honest we're maths (big dept) and will go way beyond the 7 allocated hours so we are planning on minuting everything this year so that the totals can be used in negotiations next year. Some of us have 3hrs done already!

And some think cp isn't used to treat us like kids or punish us

amacca

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Wow. That's more than a little harsh.

We have to keep minutes and a running total in the department so that no one member doesn't complete their hours. To be honest we're maths (big dept) and will go way beyond the 7 allocated hours so we are planning on minuting everything this year so that the totals can be used in negotiations next year. Some of us have 3hrs done already!

The above post illustrates how counter productive the Croke Park hours are and will continue to be imo. I hope more teachers cop on and measure them out and give not a second more and if extra curricular + all the extra time doesn't count then pull back from it....its not valued or recognised when its given for free so if you can at all don't give it...(I do recognise that many are under pressure or saddled/manipulatd into doing so much extra on top of their job way beyond what goodwill or generosity of spirit should dictate and it can be a difficult proposition to withdraw + for some it provides huge job satisfaction)

If a majority copped on and did this it wouldn't be long until principals associations, parents associations, GAA etc etc were clamouring for them to be dropped.

evolving_doors

Journey Sticky Locust wrote: »

Yes it is a mess. We have subject meetings and committee meetings etc but they are just part of the usual CP hours we do most weeks. This is the first year we have got any of these non-whole school hours and really this is the principal being deliberately spiteful in making them as awkward as possible. He fought hard to retain complete control over all hours with every meeting (including subject departments, various committees) timetabled when he wanted with an agenda set by him. Now he has given the ten hours and made them a nightmare.

Essentially he won't sign off on any hours unless they're POST, is that correct?

r93kaey5p2izun

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Essentially he won't sign off on any hours unless they're POST, is that correct?

Yes - or JCT or Project Maths.

So far he has rejected Féilte, subject association run courses, ETB groups/courses, Apple education course and masters courses.

paddybarry

Journey Sticky Locust wrote: »

Yes - or JCT or Project Maths.

So far he has rejected Féilte, subject association run courses, ETB groups/courses, Apple education course and masters courses.

Would you not ring union and get guidelines on what can be accepted? Then present this as a united front to principal?

galway1973

Man of match?

r93kaey5p2izun

paddybarry wrote: »

Would you not ring union and get guidelines on what can be accepted? Then present this as a united front to principal?

They have already visited the school - that's why we are being given the hours at all. But the wording "as approved by management" means he can decide what's acceptable and what is not.

r93kaey5p2izun

galway1973 wrote: »

Man of match?

That's a different sort of Croke Park hours altogether!!

patsman07

amacca wrote: »

The above post illustrates how counter productive the Croke Park hours are and will continue to be imo. I hope more teachers cop on and measure them out and give not a second more and if extra curricular + all the extra time doesn't count then pull back from it....its not valued or recognised when its given for free so if you can at all don't give it...(I do recognise that many are under pressure or saddled/manipulatd into doing so much extra on top of their job way beyond what goodwill or generosity of spirit should dictate and it can be a difficult proposition to withdraw + for some it provides huge job satisfaction)

If a majority copped on and did this it wouldn't be long until principals associations, parents associations, GAA etc etc were clamouring for them to be dropped.

Couldn't agree more.

All previous posts seem to be from Secondary teachers. But I can tell you first hand, its a bigger joke at primary level. Some Principals (like the OP's) seem to get pleasure out of squeezing as much time out of every teacher as possible, while in other schools there are no Croke Park hours being done at all.

Its a source of massive resentment, especially for those of us who voluntarily give up our time for after school sport etc. I've done at least three CPD courses a year since the introduction of the hours and the vast majority were a complete waste of time.

evolving_doors

galway1973 wrote: »

Man of match?

Definitely not Arlessienne's boss anyway.

Anyhow Arlessienne, if he's going to start doing that crap he should say good luck to goodwill and extra curricular and work to rule it is.

I'm probably guessing he has half the staff on low temporary hours and fighting over CID's though.

judeboy101

Journey Sticky Locust wrote: »

They have already visited the school - that's why we are being given the hours at all. But the wording "as approved by management" means he can decide what's acceptable and what is not.

Last time i looked, management meant BOM. If he won't play ball drag parents and trustees into the mess through your reps on BOM.

gaiscioch

I'm been "encourgaged" to do no fewer than four days of CPD in-service, and I do mean no fewer. Two courses, but you have to spend two days on each in order for the school to be covered for substitution. That's 24 hours (6 hours per day), plus a much longer commute to and from it than to school (where I'm going to have to catch up on the lost classwork anyway). Just to get in the spirit of things, I'd be doing a total of 15.33 hours teaching in class on those four days.

How many Croke Park Hours does attendance at 24 hours of CPD courses knock off?

chases0102

Can subject meetings be used as part of the discretionary 10 hours?

judeboy101

chases0102 wrote: »

Can subject meetings be used as part of the discretionary 10 hours?

Yes

gaiscioch

chases0102 wrote: »

Can subject meetings be used as part of the discretionary 10 hours?

judeboy101 wrote: »

Yes

All 10 hours or only five? I'm in 3 departments and was told it's only five hours in total of the 10 that count for department meetings. I'd easily use five of those hours over the year in any one of those subjects.

judeboy101

gaiscioch wrote: »

All 10 hours or only five? I'm in 3 departments and was told it's only five hours in total of the 10 that count for department meetings. I'd easily use five of those hours over the year in any one of those subjects.

Our school only using five, like you I'm in 3 does and I've already used up all 5 lol

gaiscioch

judeboy101 wrote: »

Our school only using five, like you I'm in 3 does and I've already used up all 5 lol

Is it at the school's discretion if they want to use all ten hours? If so, I better have a word with somebody in management here (I thought the 5 hours for department meetings was a DoES limit).

mirrorwall14

gaiscioch wrote: »

Is it at the school's discretion if they want to use all ten hours? If so, I better have a word with somebody in management here (I thought the 5 hours for department meetings was a DoES limit).

It’s 10 hours but locally arranged asfaik. For example 3 hrs of ours are ‘timetabled’ for committee and program meetings (though some are lunch) and we have absolutely no recognition for hours done outside of subject meetings and committee/program meetings. So no PDST course hours etc here.

There has to be a meeting at the end of the year to agree the format of the Croke Park hours. I was sick the week ours happened (with less than 48hrs notice) and management tried to force everyone to have a lunchtime meeting every single week for the whole year. That got shot down luckily but the current format is also ridiculous.

Other schools can’t possibly have as many committees as us? And what’s the point forcing teachers onto committees, they don’t want to be there and nothing gets done as a result

boatbuilder

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but - is it definitely 45 hours then?

And what about part time teachers - e.g. would a person on 50% hours do 50% of 45 hrs?
How about those on teacher contracts who work in Youthreach?

Random sample

boatbuilder wrote: »

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but - is it definitely 45 hours then?

And what about part time teachers - e.g. would a person on 50% hours do 50% of 45 hrs?
How about those on teacher contracts who work in Youthreach?

The 33 is Croke Park/Haddington road hours, the other 12 were ones we were already doing for sustaining progress, so that's where the 45 comes from.

Croke park hours are pro-rata, and it should be decided between the teacher and the principal which hours are essential. Sustaining progress ones aren't necessarily, as they are linked to staff meetings and parent teacher meetings, so would depend on your timetable.

boatbuilder

Thanks just wasn't sure of the 33 hours superseded the 12 hours or not.

Thanks.

boatbuilder

So are the potential 12 hours pro rata for part timers? I'm thinking not?
e.g. if a school decided to only have one three-hour parent teacher meeting for the year and not use the other possible 9 hours - that it would apply to all staff even the part timers?

Random sample

boatbuilder wrote: »

So are the potential 12 hours pro rata for part timers? I'm thinking not?
e.g. if a school decided to only have one three-hour parent teacher meeting for the year and not use the other possible 9 hours - that it would apply to all staff even the part timers?

Part timers would be unlikely to have all year groups, so wouldn’t have to attend all parent teacher meetings. That accounts for 9 of the 12 hours (assuming schools had 2 hour staff meetings pre-Croke park)

As far as I remember, staff meetings are compulsory for all staff, so the half out element of staff meetings that was part of sustaining progress would have to be attended by all.

solerina

Random sample wrote: »

Part timers would be unlikely to have all year groups, so wouldn’t have to attend all parent teacher meetings. That accounts for 9 of the 12 hours (assuming schools had 2 hour staff meetings pre-Croke park)

As far as I remember, staff meetings are compulsory for all staff, so the half out element of staff meetings that was part of sustaining progress would have to be attended by all.

I know in our school part timers don’t attend all staff meetings, it’s pro rata so they miss a certain amount every year.