Reg for vat

The part time boy

Just wondering would it be wortg my while reg .

With i was a dairy farmer it was not as what i lose on milk sales would not make up for it .

I know it make sense for a tillage farmer to be reg as they lot of mavhinery .

What bout beef farmers ?

How much would i lose on sending a 1000 animal to factory ?

Is there vat on cattle in the mart ?

Is there vat on fertilizer and raton ?

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

Just wondering would it be wortg my while reg .

With i was a dairy farmer it was not as what i lose on milk sales would not make up for it .

I know it make sense for a tillage farmer to be reg as they lot of mavhinery .

What bout beef farmers ?

How much would i lose on sending a 1000 animal to factory ?

Is there vat on cattle in the mart ?

Is there vat on fertilizer and raton ?

No vat on feed and fert
Vat on diesel ( derv/white 23%). Mgo /green 13.5
Petrol can't claim vat (unless your a registered reseller like a garage

Vat on sprays and silage wrap 23%
Agri contractors 13.5
Telephone 23
ESB 13.5
Vet. 13.5 & 23


You loose the vat top up on selling cattle At mart/factory Changed in January 2017. (5.4% )

But when buying animals in Marts and private (even off not vat reg farmers/dealers) you can claim the vat (4.8%)

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

Just wondering would it be wortg my while reg .

With i was a dairy farmer it was not as what i lose on milk sales would not make up for it .

I know it make sense for a tillage farmer to be reg as they lot of mavhinery .

What bout beef farmers ?

How much would i lose on sending a 1000 animal to factory ?

Is there vat on cattle in the mart ?

Is there vat on fertilizer and raton ?

The way to get around been vat reg as diary farmer is leave the livestock as not vat reg. set up partnership or Ltd co and operate the machinery or vat heavy element using this seperate legal entity. Vat leakage

Keepgrowing

lakill Farm wrote: »

The way to get around been vat reg as diary farmer is leave the livestock as not vat reg. set up partnership or Ltd co and operate the machinery or vat heavy element using this seperate legal entity. Vat leakage

You must then charge all machinery per hour to the dairy inc Vat.

Keepgrowing

lakill Farm wrote: »

The way to get around been vat reg as diary farmer is leave the livestock as not vat reg. set up partnership or Ltd co and operate the machinery or vat heavy element using this seperate legal entity. Vat leakage

Would you give that advice in a professional capacity?

lakill Farm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Would you give that advice in a professional capacity?

No but it is a solution. It's not a one set rule for all and depends on each farm and farmers plans

lakill Farm

lakill Farm wrote: »

No vat on feed and fert
Vat on diesel ( derv/white 23%). Mgo /green 13.5
Petrol can't claim vat (unless your a registered reseller like a garage

Vat on sprays and silage wrap 23%
Agri contractors 13.5
Telephone 23
ESB 13.5
Vet. 13.5 & 23


You loose the vat top up on selling cattle At mart/factory Changed in January 2017. (5.4% )

But when buying animals in Marts and private (even off not vat reg farmers/dealers) you can claim the vat (4.8%)

If buying new/fairly new machinery or a commercial jeep/crew cab the vat savings can be very significant.

lakill Farm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

You must then charge all machinery per hour to the dairy inc Vat.

yes. as I said doesn't suit every enterprise

lakill Farm

Amani Many Pizzeria wrote: »

If buying new/fairly new machinery or a commercial jeep/crew cab the vat savings can be very significant.

yes, once he 2nd hand machinery/tractor isn't marginal scheme and the item comes with vat invoice or financed with HP

Bass Reeves

On a 1200 euro carcasse you lose 60 euro that is net check about 1140 as opposed to 1200. On a 100 animals it is 6K. Yes you can deduct vat on purchased animals but as the finishing time is the most expensive the net vat could still be 3-4 K depending on how long you hold the cattle. As well Lakill will charge you a few hundred more to do the vat part of the books.

Remember most capital expenditure such as sheds, fencing, water, etc can be claimed back. You have to look at it over 10 years the element of the cattle sales is 30-40K. How will you make that back on vat saved. On a 8k contractor bill the vat is about 950 euro or 9.5K. On a 20K tractor spend (35k tractor less a 15K trade in) is 3600. You want to be spending a lot on on cars and diesel to make it worth your while

lakill Farm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

On a 1200 euro carcasse you lose 60 euro that is net check about 1140 as opposed to 1200. On a 100 animals it is 6K. Yes you can deduct vat on purchased animals but as the finishing time is the most expensive the net vat could still be 3-4 K depending on how long you hold the cattle. As well Lakill will charge you a few hundred more to do the vat part of the books.

Remember most capital expenditure such as sheds, fencing, water, etc can be claimed back. You have to look at it over 10 years the element of the cattle sales is 30-40K. How will you make that back on vat saved. On a 8k contractor bill the vat is about 950 euro or 9.5K. On a 20K tractor spend (35k tractor less a 15K trade in) is 3600. You want to be spending a lot on on cars and diesel to make it worth your while

I would tell a lot more people to stay unregistered compared to registering. and furthermore absolute thrilled when they do the vat3 themselves and I don't have to do the work for them.

So Bass are you vat reg :rolleyes:

Not to many killing 100 cattle in the country in a suckler heard. If your buying them in you get to claim the vat on purchase price of the animal.

But definitely it suits people who buy new machinery/Jeeps etc .

Way around the paying the vat on trade in currently is to sell it to NI/UK to a vat registered customer and purchase new tractor in southern Ireland.

The part time boy

Dont think it worth my while .

Contractors does not charge vat . Esb in yard (house written off bussincess) and vet is small .

Vehicle's are through bussincess . Cant see me buying many new machinery

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

Dont think it worth my while .

Contractors does not charge vat . Esb in yard (house written off bussincess) and vet is small .

Vehicle's are through bussincess . Cant see me buying many new machinery

Is business a seperate tax number from farm ?

The part time boy

At the momment no as i am sole trader in busincess but that will Probably have to change soon .

We getting close to vat cut off for bussicess so will have to register for vat .

My accouant says i can keep farm separate ?

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

At the momment no as i am sole trader in busincess but that will Probably have to change soon .

We getting close to vat cut off for bussicess so will have to register for vat .

My accouant says i can keep farm separate ?

If your business and farm operate under the one tax number you my man have a vat registered farm.

Seperate or not you need to do adjustments to all your vat 3

The part time boy

If the bussincess was to go down the limited compsny route would that be a differant tax Number ?

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

If the bussincess was to go down the limited compsny route would that be a differant tax Number ?

Yes or set up a partnership.

The part time boy

Ok maybe thats what the accountant meant so i better have a chat With him agsin . So i might be a beef farmer reg for vat yet !

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

Ok maybe thats what the accountant meant so i better have a chat With him agsin . So i might be a beef farmer reg for vat yet !

Well if your running both from same tax number even if different bank accounts you are a vat reg farmer and should notify mart and factory

The part time boy

Not registered for the bussincess yet but very Close

lakill Farm

The part time boy wrote: »

Not registered for the bussincess yet but very Close

Takes about 5 minutes 🙂

ml100

Part time tillage farming here, I registered about a few years ago, I do the vat 3 returns online myself every 2 months, only takes a few minutes, in a 'normal' year I save a little on the vat, spray is the big saving at 23%, but any year I would buy machinery would result in big savings.

lakill Farm

ml100 wrote: »

Part time tillage farming here, I registered about a few years ago, I do the vat 3 returns online myself every 2 months, only takes a few minutes, in a 'normal' year I save a little on the vat, spray is the big saving at 23%, but any year I would buy machinery would result in big savings.

The spray and diesel and parts for machines annually. but as you said buying a machine is the winner

As you do the vat3 you are saving on your accountancy/bookkeeping bill for preparing the vat 3 and probably also on your accountancy bill

a VAT return is simply however the RTD (annual Return of trading details) can be tricky when doing the vat3 manually.

ml100

lakill Farm wrote: »

The spray and diesel and parts for machines annually. but as you said buying a machine is the winner

As you do the vat3 you are saving on your accountancy/bookkeeping bill for preparing the vat 3 and probably also on your accountancy bill

a VAT return is simply however the RTD (annual Return of trading details) can be tricky when doing the vat3 manually.

I keep everything in excel and break out vat and non-vat items so I was able to make a good stab at the RTD, I then sent it to my account who corrected it :-).

it's probably not for everyone, I don't get a huge amount out of the farming so every little helps and the savings on vat more than compensates me for my time doing the returns, having to keep the books up to date during the year also helps with tax planning to minimise tax paid on farm income.