She can't stop moaning

LegacyUser

This probably isn't as serious an issue as many of those I see on here but it is bothering me nonetheless. I am 30 and she is in her late 20's - we have been going out for nearly 2 years, I love her to bits, she loves me to bits, both working, we have more or less lived out of each others places for the last year but we're planning on moving in together properly in the coming months. So far, so normal.

There is one issue that has been bothering me at the back of my mind for the last while though - I don't know whether it's a fundamental incompatibility that I will just have to learn to live with, or whether this is just bothering me now because things are getting more serious, but nonetheless I could do with some advice on it.

You see, I think I'm a fairly positive person - after two years of daily medication and keeping to a mental routine after during a bad spell of depression a few years ago, I have learned the hard way the benefits of leaving work at work when possible, not wasting brainspace letting people I don't like bother me, not doing myself down and generally going out of my way to keep a positive outlook on life. While I've had my ups and downs since then, I find this helps nip most downward spirals in the bud or at least provide options for me to move forward. It's been very hard to get to the stage where I'm thinking that way by default but I do value the fact that I am where I am now.

She on the other hand is very prone to negativity and moaning - about anything and everything when she's in certain moods. And it can be constant; she wakes up - looks in the mirror and moans about her hair/figure/skin (all of which are beautiful and I tell her that), moans about work, moans about her commute, she comes home and moans for an hour about something or someone who is annoying her at work - I suggest solutions and I am told she is not looking for solutions (this drives me mad) but for someone to listen to get vent. This is just the everyday stuff - I'm not even mentioning the moaning that comes in reaction to the little everyday setbacks that are impossible to predict. She does lighten up later but she seems to need to rant and vent first in order to do so sometimes.

I am not expecting anyone to constantly be in a good mood, but being hit by a constant barrage of negativity everyday is really getting me down. She is generally quite positive to the outside world, she only really does this with me and her family.

I've explained to her a few times to go easy on the negativity and she is understanding and agrees to stop but it always comes back a few weeks later. I was feeling a bit low the other day after work for my own reasons and when she was mid after work rant about some woman at work that irritates her, she asked me what was wrong and was I listening - I replied that I was but that she has been going on and on about this woman for weeks now. She got defensive and gave me the silent treatment for the night, later accusing me of being unsupportive. I try to be supportive, I just don't want my whole evening spent listening to this stuff about a person I have never met. I'm not someone who likes to think about work too much when I go home for the day or during weekends - there is time enough to worry about work at work - but she obsesses about it and sometimes goes on and on and on about it - sometimes I feel like I work at her company.

What do I do here? I love her to bits and I want to make her happy and build her up as much as I can, but lately I feel like the negativity rituals are grinding me down and getting to me. Maybe I'm the one with the problem here and I should just get over it?

And yes, I get the irony of starting a PI thread moaning about someone moaning, but I really don't know what to do about this.

LegacyUser

To be honest if you have raised the issue with her, explained how you feel, she has understood and tried to stop but then gone back to doing it again, it's probably not that likely she is ever really going to change. Speaking as someone who is prone to a bit of venting myself when things are annoying me, for me it's just a way to let off a bit of steam. However I cut it back a lot after having a friend who was a strongly negative presence in any given situation due to her moaning, as I then saw how irritating it could be for others. She was a lovely person but the inability to be positive wore the friendship out in the end. I also worked with a lady who was good hearted but could not seem to help but find a string of things to complain about in any given day. These experiences helped me see how people don't want to be around those that whinge all the time and it made me much more aware of not doing it unless something really upsetting had happened. If you have let her know how it affects you and she isn't able to cut it out, it may be that this is a part of her personality you will have to accept if you want to stay together. It's not an enticing option though. In both cases I mentioned, I ended up doing anything I could to avoid the moaners because my irritation turned to dislike over time. It would be a shame if that happened with your girlfriend, but as you have identified, positivity is important in your life and it is perfectly reasonable to seek that out rather than letting someone else drag you down.

Colonel Claptrap

Kudos to you for fighting your own demons and keeping your mental health in check. It's not easy to stay positive. Frankly I'm amazed you managed to keep a level head throughout all the moaning.

It sounds like an awful situation to be in. Obviously you love each other and want to make a life together. But do you love her enough to risk your own mental health and personal well-being? It might be difficult to answer that without feeling selfish.

From the outside looking in, you don't seem compatible. You are in the springtime of your life, madly in love and about to move in together. This is usually an insanely happy period for couples. You don't sound happy.

If it was me, I would look for an exit.

Best of luck with it.

Frogscotch

Ive been with my husband for over 20 years, surviving severe depression and we can both bring each other down - it is extremely wearing to listen to your partner moan. Before you dump her, and if you really like her, try having another conversation, not mid-moan, but at a more neutral and less emotionally charged time.

Tell her you're finding it difficult to deal with so much negativity, ask her if there's anyone else she can talk to - maybe a friend or counsellor could ease the burden on you. Also, something we do is give each other a five minute timed "moan" if there's things bothering us - it brings a bit of humour into the situation, you get to complain for 5 mins non-stop without interruption. It sounds like she needs a sounding board after work which is reasonable but has to be contained.

If she is not understanding of the impact she is having, then you have a serious problem. You could always just show her what you've written above - she may not realise that you are trying to protect your own mental health. Best of luck to you.

December2012

She needs to vent, but you can't hear it.

So she needs to vent to Somebody else then.

Don't offer solutions, she just wants to process it her way. Which is very different to yours, but it is her way.

I am like you, and I can't listen to too much negativity or else it brings me down. I also point blank refuse to bitch about anybody, whether I know them or its light hearted or not. It's not good for me.

So you have to set some ground rules to compromise and see what works.

Eg she can moan one hour before work and one hour after. Then that's it. If she needs to vent she can do it somewhere else to someone else.

No complaining about her own appearance when you're there.

You will offer no advice, and just listen. She can be grumpy up to 11 on the weekends but not after.

No moaning in the bed (you know what I mean!!). The bed is a place for positivity and rest, not negativity.

She should go out with her friends at least once a week to blow off steam.

Etc

It can be done

amtc

My mam is a really positive person and my dad really negative. He's pleased when it rains as he doesn't have to water the garden.

Anyway my mam has got sick of this and gave him an elastic band to wear and snap around his wrist whenever he has a negative thought. And write down how many times he did this.This was a week ago. The mood has improved tremendously.

I would pick up on one thing in the post...that she doesn't require solutions. Generally women don't and men try to fix things

However incessant moaning about everything can be toxic. Your home should be a place to recharge your batteries not take it out on each other. The timed moaning is a good idea. A friend of mine has a cooking timer and sets it for this. Another friend who is particularly prone to moaning about work simply uses the commute to vent in his car.

Labcoats and Running Shoes

Frogscotch wrote: »

Tell her you're finding it difficult to deal with so much negativity, ask her if there's anyone else she can talk to - maybe a friend or counsellor could ease the burden on you. Also, something we do is give each other a five minute timed "moan" if there's things bothering us - it brings a bit of humour into the situation, you get to complain for 5 mins non-stop without interruption. It sounds like she needs a sounding board after work which is reasonable but has to be contained.

I would completely agree with this OP. When I was finishing my PhD, I was also living with a partner and I know many times I would come home very late after a very long day, absolutely exhausted and p*ssed off about something that didn't work in the lab/supervisor/whatever and need a moan about it. It was endlessly frustrating when my partner would try to fix things. I didn't want to fix it, I wanted someone to listen to me vent and tell me that it's okay and agree that right at that moment, life sucked. But after my 5 min. venting, a cuppa, and a sit-down I would be fine and no need to re-hash things or complain any more. I think your OH is a bit similar to me in that she may need to vent and not have you suggest solutions but she also doesn't seem to have the ability to move on from things which is going to drag you down. My (ex) partner was very like your OH. She would fixate on things and it brought me down. In the end I tried to instigate a "you can vent/rehash/complain/whatever you want for 1 hr and then we move on" but she just wasn't capable of that and we split (for other reasons as well).

Mind your mental health OP. It's no good being with someone even if you love them if it's at the expense of your own health.

leggo

I think this is a compatibility thing tbh. Different people deal with different issues in different ways, there's no right or wrong way and if it all adds up to a generally happy person on balance, then there's no problem. But if partners deal with things completely differently and one partner's coping mechanism actually hurts or brings the other person down, then that's an issue.

There's a middle ground, though, that you could both explore before needing to address it seriously. Like you seem to have a valid point when you speak of the constant moaning from morning til night, about everything. That could be compromised somewhat, even by asking her, "Are you happy with everything? Because you don't seem happy the way you go on sometimes..." and opening the conversation into something deeper than giving out about the little things.

On your end, though, OP, you're not exactly blameless either. The stuff about you trying to offer solutions and her saying she just wants to vent is classic 'Men are from Mars...' stuff. Sometimes people just want to get stuff off their chest and get a bit of empathy, to be told they're right for feeling the way they do, and even if their not to at least have their position understood. It can be really annoying when you want to get stuff off your chest and people respond by telling you what you 'should' do, when they actually never asked for advice, like they're some kind of imbecile who doesn't know how to run their own life. So now, on top of the thing that's annoying them, they feel patronised.

So work on trying to find that middle ground, keeping in mind that it's not all about you and how you feel either (and vice versa), and you might be onto a winner. Relationships are about two people compromising so both have a better, shared life together.

Mr. Incognito

Hello there.

This is VERY common. It's impossible to avoid generalisations but this is my 2c

Men tend not to complain and ignore or brush stuff off. This leads to a lot of mental instability and depression in men.

Women like to talk things out. They verbalise their feelings with each other. They then like to tell their partners.

To women this equates to; I love you and trust you and want to tell you what I'm worried about. I need to say it out loud because it's annoying me but I dont expect it to change any time soon and this is my way of coping with stress.

To men this equates to; I have a problem and I am telling you so you can fix it.

Men don't sympathise or emphatise. They hear problem and their reaction is- how do I eliminate/ fix this problem. Often they will jokingly say, I'll kill that person for you. (ultimate solution) but shows they way we think.

It can be frustrating for women to have their partners "not listen" to them and keep offering nonsensical solutions to things. They "dont get it".

To men it can be equally toxic to hear their partners "piss and moan". Because we dont do this. We just get on with it. Bad day, meh, Soccer, pints and a kebab to the rescue.

Most people dont really get this until they are at the thin edge of the wedge. I know this and I still catch myself with my partner going, oh jesus will she ever just stop whining. But you just have to bite your tongue and let it pass. It's her way of getting it out and she'll be fine afterwards.

You CAN say, look, I dont want to hear you criticise yourself and your appearance etc. I think you are beautiful. This should cut out 50% of the whining in my experience.

I apologise if anyone finds this offensive when I refer to whining but women and men are programmed differently in this regard. Of course there are exceptions to this and its a generalisaiton but its largely accurate I find.

December2012

Another thing to add, a great phrase to say when somebody is moaning, which shows empathy without getting down in the dirt with them is something like "I can see that has bothered you a lot. That must be difficult for you".

You can adapt it "I know you say your hair looks bad today, but I think it looks lovely and shiny", "i hear you don't like your uniform, I'm sorry I have to wear it if you don't like it. For what it's worth I think you wear it very well".

Etc

team_actimel

December2012 wrote: »

So you have to set some ground rules to compromise and see what works.

Eg she can moan one hour before work and one hour after. Then that's it. If she needs to vent she can do it somewhere else to someone else.

I agree with the rest of your post, but Jesus, letting her moan for one hour before work and one after is far too much.
So much negativity to listen to in one day.

OP, it sounds like you have to listen to her complain and talk negatively a lot more than having normal happy conversations.

At this point, you have to make the decision. Do you really want to have to listen to her negativity for the rest of your life, if she doesn't improve or get counselling or something?
And risk the state of your own positive mental state for hers?

Malayalam

When you are at the stage of getting serious there should really be a surfeit of happiness over stress. Life doesn't get any easier, tough stuff happens, much tougher than what one might expect by times and knowing ye can surf the waves together because there is a solid base of contentment is a big thing. I would not be able to endure constant moaning in others or myself. Talk to her seriously.

Neyite

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Stonesriver, welcome to PI/RI

Its an advice forum, so replies should be on topic, address the op's issue, and be civil, helpful and constructive. Your posts fall short of that standard so were deleted, as were any replies. Please read the charter for further clarification.

Kidchameleon

Lucas_Anon wrote: »

gave me the silent treatment for the night,.

Dump her now

jackofalltrades

Fair play to you OP for getting your life back on track.
I'm also a problem solver like you and find it hard to listen to people without offering solutions.
I was in a relationship with someone who started to vent all the time towards the end.
I don't mind it the odd time, but it's a poor long term copping mechanic and it's a danger to the person that is being vented on.

I find the kind of people who do it regularly also have no intention of ever making any meaningful changes.
They just use the people around them to unload their toxic thoughts onto.
It's also telling that she only does this with you and her family and not with others.
As someone above said type out the your post and hand it to her.
I'd also put a strict time limit on her moaning, tell her she's got 5/10/15 minutes a day, once she hits that limit walk away.
Hopefully that will make her realise that she can't keep using you as an emotional crutch and will spur her on to make changes in her life.

professore

Men don't sympathise or emphatise. They hear problem and their reaction is- how do I eliminate/ fix this problem. Often they will jokingly say, I'll kill that person for you. (ultimate solution) but shows they way we think

I think this is commonly stated (the bolded part) but it is wrong (for most men anyway aside from sociopath types). In general the WAY we sympathise and empathise is different than women.

It's like this .... you tell me something that is bugging you, to use a stupid example "I have a thorn in my foot".

I empathise with you by wanting to help you, so I work out you have a thorn in your foot and offer to help to remove it, therefore removing the source of the problem and making you happier.

Some women on the other hand, seem to prefer to tell someone else how sore their foot is and they both sit down for a good moan together, after which point the thorn is still there. The moan seems to be the object of the exercise, and removing the problem is a negative thing to do because it removes the reason for moaning. So removing the thorn makes them mad at you.

Maybe that's why some women chase after men who treat them really badly, whereas men only tend to stay with women like this when they put on a show before marriage and then after they get married they show their true personalities - they don't actively chase women that treat them badly. I really don't know.

Maybe I'll get banned for being sexist, but I am just saying what I've seen over and over again, I can lie and say men and women in general are the same in these situations but in my experience they are not. There are of course exceptions in both sexes but in general that's the way it works.

What I've observed is sometimes it's just better to say how terrible it is to have a thorn in your foot and it must really hurt than to actually do something about it.

leggo

I'd agree that as a rule of thumb this is a man/woman thing, but in saying that of course it's a generalisation too and doesn't apply to everyone. Women can be fixers too, just as men can listen.

For me, I would've been a fixer until it was pointed out to me and I kinda copped on. Where does that need come from? Basically not wanting to listen and get on with things, a need to pretend everything is okay when it might not be, not being good at talking things through etc. Basically not wanting to deal with problems. And that's a very stereotypical male feeling: just have a pint and forget about it. I don't think that's healthy, as one way or another you're going to have to go through the emotion, you can either bottle it up and let it come out in a weird, unpredictable way or talk it through and be in control of it.

When you can just listen to someone and empathise, when you can agree that "Yeah this is an annoying thing that can happen...", maybe even laugh about it all in the end, you feel more connected to them and they you. And, hey, now I'll even have a moan/vent myself and get stuff off my chest that way. It's something I think is really worth training yourself to do.

professore

I'm not sure not wanting to deal with problems is the same as wanting to fix them, they seem the opposite to me.

Sometimes talking things through is the way to go, of course. If you are upset after something like a bad day at work, and you complain about Johnny being impossible to work with, then that's fine. However if you constantly complain about everything all the time and this is key, if your partner makes one complaint of their own and it's shut down immediately, then there is a big problem. This is most definitely not an empathetic person.

Wibbs

Not an easy one OP. At all. Have been in your situation myself and it was extremely wearing. And I'd not have any mental/emotional illness to speak of. I'm generally speaking a "be grand" type, with the odd low anyone of us can get. And like I say it wore me down and at times dragged me into their negative mindset. Though for me what wore me down the most was how transitory these mindsets were for them. One day OK, next down, with me in listener/solve problems mode. I reckon I could deal with it if it had been at least consistent. No way could I have dealt with it if I'd had the kinda mental troubles you had. Kudos on that score.

This kinda thinking never really gets better IMH. I see it in people many years on. Actual mental illnesses like depression can and do get better(with help), but people who are "naturally" negative? Well I've yet to see it. Now if you can deal with that and it doesn't affect you then fine, but...

For me, in the end after wearing the tee shirt and walking the walk I made the decision; enough. never again. I've a lot of sympathy for folks who suffer from this kinda negative mindset, but would consciously avoid them for romantic relationships. Give me someone with the "happy" gene any day of the week. Life is too bloody short.

Eric Cartman

Its become a complete deal breaker for me, was with somebody like that. I eventually just stopped listening to anything she said and resented her for it. You're better off out or it will just fester and cause you stress.

Leave the negative people for other negative people.

I'm definitely a fixer. I get having a vent but anything beyond that drives me insane. I eventually had to tell a friend i wasnt listening anymore after she kept complaining about the same thing and never doing anything about it.
I'd be the same as you OP and if you've listened for weeks and she's doing nothing i would react the same. I don't think that's unsupportive.
I don't know what to suggest though, maybe try to discuss it again and explain how it makes you feel. You could even use the thorn in the foot example! Maybe in a nicer way!