Colonel Claptrap's Would an EV suit me? [Split Thread]

Colonel Claptrap

Really enjoying this thread. Lots of great information. Boards is fantastic for this sort of thing.
I’m at the start of my EV journey, wondering if an EV would suit our household’s needs. I really like the look of the Ioniq in particular. Not too futuristic.
I’d love to bounce some ideas off you guys.

- Are we suited to having an EV?
I commute to work (Dublin) by public transport. My OH drives to work (3km away). We share 1 car. 90% of our driving is locally, and never more than a few kilometers at a time.
A few times a year we take a trip down the country (200km away). We pass the Enfield charge point and often call in for a cuppa/bite to eat. We usually spend 3 days down the country with the car parked up, before returning to Dublin. I assume a granny cable would be sufficient for getting a full charge for the return trip? I can be somewhat heavy footed on a motorway.

- What about a home charge point?
The car would be parked on the driveway. A home charge point connected to the exterior wall would be ideal. How do we go about getting one of these installed? Do the government offer any schemes? If not, are they expensive?

- Service/Maintenance
How much does it cost to service an Ioniq? I assume there are fewer mechanical parts, so servicing works out cheaper in the long run? The Hyundai website mentions 5 years free servicing, but the link is dead. Possibly because I’m on mobile. What does this entail? Are there any other costs incurred specific to EVs?

- When to Buy
We have a 2008 car on its last legs. Plenty of bodywork damage/scrapes etc. Does Hynudai offer a scrap page deal? Again I see one on the site, but it’s a dead link. We’re hoping to buy in 2018 but I’d love to hear people’s opinions on the best time of year to buy. We will need to borrow to buy the car. I’m slightly skeptical of PCP but would love to hear people’s opinions on PCP on an Ioniq. Also, how long do people plan on keeping their car? Will you buy it outright and hold it for a few years, or are you looking to trade in after a 3 years?

- Ireland and EVs
There is a lot of speculation on here about what the future holds for EVs in Ireland. In your opinion, is it better to buy now and take advantage of the government incentive, or wait a year or two to see what the future holds. I see myself in an EV In the future regardless. But when is a good time to take the leap of faith?

- Drawbacks / fears / worries
Play devil’s advocate. Why should I not get an Ioniq?

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate any feedback.
There seems to be a great EV community on boards.

KCross

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Really enjoying this thread. Lots of great information. Boards is fantastic for this sort of thing.
I’m at the start of my EV journey, wondering if an EV would suit our household’s needs. I really like the look of the Ioniq in particular. Not too futuristic.
I’d love to bounce some ideas off you guys.

- Are we suited to having an EV?
I commute to work (Dublin) by public transport. My OH drives to work (3km away). We share 1 car. 90% of our driving is locally, and never more than a few kilometers at a time.
A few times a year we take a trip down the country (200km away). We pass the Enfield charge point and often call in for a cuppa/bite to eat. We usually spend 3 days down the country with the car parked up, before returning to Dublin. I assume a granny cable would be sufficient for getting a full charge for the return trip? I can be somewhat heavy footed on a motorway.

What are you driving right now? Petrol, diesel, engine size, model?

A new EV is a lot of money to spend for the little mileage you are doing.

If you don't buy an EV would you buy a new petrol car anyway or are you considering new because you want EV. If its the latter your motivation needs to be purely environmental rather than cost as it doesn't make sense to buy a new EV based on the miles you are doing.

It seems to me a secondhand EV is what you should buy.

Colonel Claptrap

Apologies, I should have mentioned that. Currently driving a small 1.3L diesel hatchback with reliability problems.
The plan was to replace it in 2018 with something bigger (room for a baby seat, buggy etc). Reliability is the main driver of the decision.

With regards New/Old, I would prefer a second hand car if possible.
What is nudging me towards new is that the current car is on its last legs and will be difficult to trade in/sell privately. If there was a scrappage deal with a minimum guaranteed value, it would suit us.
Also – correct me if I’m wrong – but doesn’t the government offer 5k towards the cost of a new EV?

Can second hand Ioniqs be found in Ireland/UK?
Would importing from the UK be an option?

I’m not particularly a fan of the Leaf. But I’m keeping an open mind. I will test drive both.

Thanks for your advice!

KCross

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Apologies, I should have mentioned that. Currently driving a small 1.3L diesel hatchback with reliability problems.
The plan was to replace it in 2018 with something bigger (room for a baby seat, buggy etc). Reliability is the main driver of the decision.

With regards New/Old, I would prefer a second hand car if possible.
What is nudging me towards new is that the current car is on its last legs and will be difficult to trade in/sell privately. If there was a scrappage deal with a minimum guaranteed value, it would suit us.
Also – correct me if I’m wrong – but doesn’t the government offer 5k towards the cost of a new EV?

Can second hand Ioniqs be found in Ireland/UK?
Would importing from the UK be an option?

I’m not particularly a fan of the Leaf. But I’m keeping an open mind. I will test drive both.

Thanks for your advice!

Government do provide €5k grant but its already included in the price you see on the dealers website.

Secondhand Ioniqs are hard to find due to lack of supply, but possible.

Importing from the UK is your best bet.

Also note that the next model Leaf is being revealed on Sept 6 so you might be able to get that in 181 as well and by recent spy shots is not as ugly as the existing one so keep an eye out for that if you are set on new.

I'd still think secondhand is the way for you to go based on the low mileage and the fact you are borrowing. Its a personal choice though and the scrappage deal is an important decision point alright.... it remains to be seen if that will be in place for the 181 cars or not.

la ultima guagua

KCross wrote: »

......Importing from the UK is your best bet........

But....... where are they advertised ?

There are very, very few up on Autotrader.co.uk

stesaurus

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Apologies, I should have mentioned that. Currently driving a small 1.3L diesel hatchback with reliability problems.
The plan was to replace it in 2018 with something bigger (room for a baby seat, buggy etc). Reliability is the main driver of the decision.

With regards New/Old, I would prefer a second hand car if possible.
What is nudging me towards new is that the current car is on its last legs and will be difficult to trade in/sell privately. If there was a scrappage deal with a minimum guaranteed value, it would suit us.
Also – correct me if I’m wrong – but doesn’t the government offer 5k towards the cost of a new EV?

Can second hand Ioniqs be found in Ireland/UK?
Would importing from the UK be an option?

I’m not particularly a fan of the Leaf. But I’m keeping an open mind. I will test drive both.

Thanks for your advice!

You should start a separate thread or ask the mods to split off this discussion into a new thread for you.

You won't get a 2nd hand Ioniq from the UK unless you're willing to take a horrible colour option. See the bargain thread
The reason being is there are massive supply problems due to the batteries. They just can't keep up with demand. So both here and the UK have huge waiting lists. Anyone waiting is very quick to jump on a demo or 2nd hand car very quickly, plus there's very few yet to the 2nd hand market. It's not even on sale a full year yet.

I think with your mileage you'd be crazy to go new. Pick up a 2nd hand Zoe or Leaf for next to nothing. Very little to go wrong and a pleasure to drive. Test drive one before dismissing the looks.

unkel

Agreed except that all the "horrible" metallic colours like Blazing Yellow, Phoenix Orange and Marina blue are pretty funky imho

grogi

unkel wrote: »

Agreed except that all the "horrible" metallic colours like Blazing Yellow, Phoenix Orange and Marina blue are pretty funky imho

Average motorists wants a colour of dusk, shadow, night or ash... Let's not forget about moon... Kudos for scoring combo, such as shadow of moon ash...

Such boring and depressing selection....

bk

Colonel Claptrap, a second hand Nissan Leaf sounds like it would be ideal for you.

Even a 24kwh would do you fine for your day to day needs. Your once a year 200km trip would be a bit more of an adventure, needing at least one if not two stops to charge, but since only once a year and not in a rush, then it would probably be fine.

Given your low mileage, you probably won't save a massive amount on fuel. But EV's are still worth it as they are very pleasant and relaxed cars to drive with very good reliability.

KCross

To answer some of your other questions:

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

- What about a home charge point?
The car would be parked on the driveway. A home charge point connected to the exterior wall would be ideal. How do we go about getting one of these installed? Do the government offer any schemes? If not, are they expensive?

If you buy a new EV you currently get one installed for free but its unclear if that will be extended to 181 or not.

If you buy s/h some dealers will offer it as part of the deal.

You can buy it and get your local electrician to install it. Plenty threads on here detailing where to buy and how much it costs. Run a search for home charge point in the last 6 months and you should find the detail you need.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

- Service/Maintenance
How much does it cost to service an Ioniq? I assume there are fewer mechanical parts, so servicing works out cheaper in the long run? The Hyundai website mentions 5 years free servicing, but the link is dead. Possibly because I’m on mobile. What does this entail? Are there any other costs incurred specific to EVs?

Not sure about Ioniq service prices but a Leaf costs around €120, depending on dealer. Its required if you want to maintain the warranty. If the car is out of warranty its not worth it. Just get your local mechanic to check brakes/suspension and thats all thats required.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

- When to Buy
We have a 2008 car on its last legs. Plenty of bodywork damage/scrapes etc. Does Hynudai offer a scrap page deal? Again I see one on the site, but it’s a dead link. We’re hoping to buy in 2018 but I’d love to hear people’s opinions on the best time of year to buy. We will need to borrow to buy the car. I’m slightly skeptical of PCP but would love to hear people’s opinions on PCP on an Ioniq. Also, how long do people plan on keeping their car? Will you buy it outright and hold it for a few years, or are you looking to trade in after a 3 years?

If you plan to keep the car long term, PCP is probably a bad choice.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

- Ireland and EVs
There is a lot of speculation on here about what the future holds for EVs in Ireland. In your opinion, is it better to buy now and take advantage of the government incentive, or wait a year or two to see what the future holds. I see myself in an EV In the future regardless. But when is a good time to take the leap of faith?

My opinion... If EV suits you now, now is the time to jump while the incentives are in place.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

- Drawbacks / fears / worries
Play devil’s advocate. Why should I not get an Ioniq?

Its too much money for the mileage you are doing. Buy a secondhand EV.

Note, when buying secondhand, high mileage is less of an issue than on an ICE. Just look at the suspension and battery state (Lookup LeafSpy if its a Leaf you buy).

Your 200km road trip is a few times a year so I'd say look at 30kWh Leaf if you dont like the idea of multiple stops on that trip. The 30kWh will do it in one stop. The Ioniq might make it without a stop if you drive slower and depending on weather.

Get an extended test drive in the Leaf and Ioniq and then go for it!

oppenheimer1

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Really enjoying this thread. Lots of great information. Boards is fantastic for this sort of thing.
I’m at the start of my EV journey, wondering if an EV would suit our household’s needs. I really like the look of the Ioniq in particular. Not too futuristic.
I’d love to bounce some ideas off you guys.

...

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate any feedback.
There seems to be a great EV community on boards.

On the face of it Colonel, a 24kwh leaf would meet all of your driving needs. To be honest though, your stated driving needs are very very low, if I were you I'd be considering if I needed a car at all. 3km is 15mins on a bicycle, and for the down country trips you can hire a car for €25/day, usually less.

Given that you drive so little, I could not recommend you getting a 181 car of any type since it will sit up for the majority of the time, depreciating away.

BoatMad

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

On the face of it Colonel, a 24kwh leaf would meet all of your driving needs. To be honest though, your stated driving needs are very very low, if I were you I'd be considering if I needed a car at all. 3km is 15mins on a bicycle, and for the down country trips you can hire a car for €25/day, usually less.

Given that you drive so little, I could not recommend you getting a 181 car of any type since it will sit up for the majority of the time, depreciating away.

I would agree, with that sort of mileage, spending anything above a few grand is madness.

Colonel Claptrap

Excellent feedback from everybody.
It has been a real eye opener.

Thank you.

Gumbo

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Excellent feedback from everybody.
It has been a real eye opener.

Thank you.

Buy a cheap 2011 Leaf.

Shefwedfan

la ultima guagua wrote: »

But....... where are they advertised ?

There are very, very few up on Autotrader.co.uk

There is a couple of people bringing them in, they are buying from trade before they hit autotrader. Electric Autos in Kildare and Ecocars.

There is other options apart from Leaf. The other favorite around would be the Renault Zoe.

You could look at eGolf. The older model has 26kWh battery so you will get 150km+ per charge. The newer model will be 200km+

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

The eGolf is big money compared to Leaf but I bought one and I feel it is money well spent. Also the depreciation does not seem to be as high as Leaf.

BMW i3 is around but is small compared to the other cars.

la ultima guagua

Shefwedfan wrote: »

There is a couple of people bringing them in, they are buying from trade before they hit autotrader. Electric Autos in Kildare and Ecocars.

There is other options apart from Leaf. The other favorite around would be the Renault Zoe.
.........

I should have included the previous line ( of the post from Kcross that I was responding to ) to make it clear that this was about BEV Ioniqs. My Bad !

Agree that secondhand leaf, Zoe & I3 can be got......

But Ioniqs ? Reckon Unkel wouldn't let his go for anything less than 40k

cros13

Shefwedfan wrote: »

BMW i3 is around but is small compared to the other cars.

err... the i3 interior is larger than all the cars you mentioned with the possible exception of rear legroom vs the Leaf and eGolf.

Now boot space with the seats up is another matter.... but with the seats down the 1100L flat load space in the i3 can take a king size bed from IKEA or a washer/dryer and lots more besides.

I'm also not a small bloke, wide shouldered and 197cm tall and I'm less cramped in the i3 than the Leaf. I'm afraid the seat of the eGolf didn't drop far enough for me.

Shefwedfan

cros13 wrote: »

err... the i3 interior is larger than all the cars you mentioned with the possible exception of rear legroom vs the Leaf and eGolf.

Now boot space with the seats up is another matter.... but with the seats down the 1100L flat load space in the i3 can take a king size bed from IKEA or a washer/dryer and lots more besides.

I'm also not a small bloke, wide shouldered and 197cm tall and I'm less cramped in the i3 than the Leaf. I'm afraid the seat of the eGolf didn't drop far enough for me.

Wasn't having a pop at the i3, I just stood outside one and it looked smaller. It is a 4 seater only?

I don't really rate any car with seats down. For a family car what is point in having loads of space but only 2 people can get into it? Test is get a buggy and a few bags of shopping into boot with 2 adult/2 kids......

No idea what height I am, just know I fit into all cars bar my sons Little Tikes Cozy Coupe :P

Shefwedfan

la ultima guagua wrote: »

I should have included the previous line ( of the post from Kcross that I was responding to ) to make it clear that this was about BEV Ioniqs. My Bad !

Agree that secondhand leaf, Zoe & I3 can be got......

But Ioniqs ? Reckon Unkel wouldn't let his go for anything less than 40k

A couple of Ioniqs popping up in Uk, one listed on bargains thread the other day......

cros13

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Wasn't having a pop at the i3, I just stood outside one and it looked smaller. It is a 4 seater only?

It's a purpose built EV platform so the cabin extends much further forward than on many other cars. It's a car that's shorter than a ford fiesta, quicker off the line than an M3, has more interior volume than a BMW 3-series and the turning radius of a fiat 500. Combined with a CFRP carbon fiber frame for low weight (1195kg...about 200kg less than the eGolf), RWD with a 125kW motor (25kW more than the eGolf) and very precise BMW steering it's a weapon in city traffic.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't really rate any car with seats down. For a family car what is point in having loads of space but only 2 people can get into it? Test is get a buggy and a few bags of shopping into boot with 2 adult/2 kids......

The i3 has a particularly practical totally flat loading area from the boot edge (there's not really any lip) to the front seats so it's a definite feature. I've even put a fridge freezer in (one of the shorter ones... but still)
It's not built as a family car really. Four adults can fit no problem but no buggy.
It's a car for the DINKy set (Dual Incomes No Kids) or singles (like myself).

thierry14

cros13 wrote: »

It's a purpose built EV platform so the cabin extends much further forward than on many other cars. It's a car that's shorter than a ford fiesta, quicker off the line than an M3, has more interior volume than a BMW 3-series and the turning radius of a fiat 500. Combined with a CFRP carbon fiber frame for low weight (1195kg...about 200kg less than the eGolf), RWD with a 125kW motor (25kW more than the eGolf) and very precise BMW steering it's a weapon in city traffic.



The i3 has a particularly practical totally flat loading area from the boot lip to the front seats so it's a definite feature.
It's not built as a family car really. Four adults can fit no problem but no buggy.
It's a car for the DINKy set (Dual Incomes No Kids) or singles (like myself).

That M3 video is a bit ott

New M3's are sub 4 sec cars?

How can a 6.5-7sec 0-60 car be quicker off the line?

Still an amazing motor, can leave hot hatches sitting but M3's, nah dont believe it

cros13

thierry14 wrote: »

That M3 video is a bit ott

New M3's are sub 4 sec cars?

How can a 6.5-7sec 0-60 car be quicker off the line?

Still an amazing motor, can leave hot hatches sitting but M3's, nah dont believe it

The magic of an EV torque curve... the i3 does 0-40 km/h slightly quicker than the M3... don't get me wrong, the latest M3 will catch you quick but at launch..... Although there was a firmware update in early 2016 that limited the initial torque from the i3 motor because of concerns about damage to the reduction gearing.... wasn't happy about that.

Before that I'd put in a few runs off the lights with an Audi TTS, an M3, M5 and a Ferrari F430 and most caught me within the first 100-200m (with the exception of the TTS where I was almost at my top speed limiter before he passed me) but I got at a car lengths or so on the lot of them from a stop. It's worth noting that at the BMW press event the M3 the journalists were also allowed to take turns in the M3 to see if they could better the launch of the driver and they didn't use launch control (although there is a way to do quasi launch control on the Leaf and i3 that can counter that somewhat).

And you can imagine how useful that instant acceleration is in traffic.

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

The magic of an EV torque curve...

There is nothing magical about it. In an EV, from energy transfer point of view, the torque at wheel (and hence acceleration) at low speeds can be humongous. However it is limited by the available traction and strength of the drive train components: cv-joins, drive shafts etc.

cros13 wrote: »

the i3 does 0-40 km/h slightly quicker than the M3...

No, it doesn't.

M3 does 0-80 km/h in 2.9 secs and 0-50 in 1.6 sec.
i3 does 0-60 km/h in 3.5 sec.

http://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m3-f80
http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/07/10/bmw-i3-official-specs/

cros13

grogi wrote: »

There is nothing magical about it. In an EV, from energy transfer point of view, the torque at wheel (and hence acceleration) at low speeds can be humongous. However it is limited by the available traction and strength of the drive train components: cv-joins, drive shafts etc.

*cough* I know... I wasn't suggest actual supernatural forces being involved.

grogi wrote: »

No, it doesn't.

Well comparing against my old E90 M3 (i think the one in the referenced video is an E90 too) the i3 is quicker 0-40km/h by about 0.1 seconds (1.6 vs 1.7).

The F80 is a lot quicker off the line than the E90/E92.

And make allowances for a little hyperbole when comparing a €32k purpose built city car against a €100k+ high performance saloon.
The fact an i3 can pull in front of one is an impressive feat nonetheless.

Shefwedfan

cros13 wrote: »

*cough* I know... I wasn't suggest actual supernatural forces being involved.



Well comparing against my old E90 M3 (i think the one in the referenced video is an E90 too) the i3 is quicker 0-40km/h by about 0.1 seconds (1.6 vs 1.7).

The F80 is a lot quicker off the line than the E90/E92.

And make allowances for a little hyperbole when comparing a €32k purpose built city car against a €100k+ high performance saloon.
The fact an i3 can pull in front of one is an impressive feat nonetheless.

This discussion reminds me of :


:P

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This discussion reminds me of :


:P

It's an image and so is subjective. Those snails could be doing 100kph for all you know

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

There is nothing magical about it. In an EV, from energy transfer point of view, the torque at wheel (and hence acceleration) at low speeds can be humongous. However it is limited by the available traction and strength of the drive train components: cv-joins, drive shafts etc.



No, it doesn't.

M3 does 0-80 km/h in 2.9 secs and 0-50 in 1.6 sec.
i3 does 0-60 km/h in 3.5 sec.

http://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m3-f80
http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/07/10/bmw-i3-official-specs/

extracting manufacturers 0-xx time is near impossible in petrol cars
extracting it in an EV , is as simple as how fast you press down the " go" pedal

the difference is real life with " ordinary " drivers

and EV can extract the acceleration very easily , a petrol cant ( by average drivers )

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

extracting manufacturers 0-xx time is near impossible in petrol cars
extracting it in an EV , is as simple as how fast you press down the " go" pedal

the difference is real life with " ordinary " drivers

and EV can extract the acceleration very easily , a petrol cant ( by average drivers )

Manuals yeah, it's impossible

Modern dual clutch autos are simple to launch

Dsg Golf I had no problem getting near manufacturer time, if it had 4wd it would get very close

unkel

Not just modern dual clutch autos. Any auto will make the manufacturers time! Same as any EV.