Another tyre thread: Summer vs All weather

flyingsnail

I bought a second hand 08 Mondeo last month and I need to replace all four tyres (235/45/R17)
I don’t mind buying decent tyres but I don’t want to have summer / winter sets so I started looking at all weather tyres as a compromise, but the more I read the more I get confused as to whether I should be looking at them or not. They seem to be a jack of all trades master of none but they seem appropriate for our climate, which is rarely above 30c or below -5C. Does anybody have any thoughts / experience on Summer vs All weather? The three in particular I was looking at are

Michelin CrossClimate+
Vredestein Quatrac 5
Nokian WeatherProof


Thanks for the help

mikeecho

Where abouts in the country do you drive?

Most of my driving is in cork, and I run summer tyres all year without any problems.










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flyingsnail

I am outside Limerick city, but very regularly drive on roads that don't get gritted in winter.

Odyssey 2005

Been using 225/45/17 Hankook all seasons for years. I find them excellent especially in very heavy rain. Excellent wear also.

Wildcard7

In Switzerland most people are switching tyres once a year, with separate set for summer and winter. With my last car before I moved to .ie I didn't do that anymore, I got all year M+S rated tyres. Couldn't say I ever noticed a lack of grip, be it in hot weather or on snow.

If they're good enough for a place with temperatures ranging from -10°C to 35°C, they're also good enough for Ireland where its between 0°C and 25°C. So I'm running all season tyres here as well. Plenty of grip in dry/warm weather, and more than good enough for the "snow" you can expect in Ireland.

Are separate summer/winter tyres better? Of course. Is it worth the hassle in the irish climate? In my opinion definitely not.

flyingsnail

Can I ask what tyres are you using wildcard?

Wildcard7

Currently Kumho Road Venture APT. No idea what I had before :-)

Zubeneschamali

flyingsnail wrote: »

Michelin CrossClimate+
Vredestein Quatrac 5
Nokian WeatherProof

The only ones I've used are the CrossClimates, and they are not an all-weather tyre, they are a summer tyre with some winter features.

Grand in summer, have never had to tackle really cold stuff with them.

Would buy again.

hognef

Keep in mind that if something works better on ice (which is more relevant in Ireland than snow) than a pure summer tyre, it'll be because it's made out of a softer compound, which means it'll wear quicker.

Also, it'll be more important to buy fresh tyres, as they will harden over time. With actual winter tyres, there's a massive and surprising difference between new and old tyres, regardless of tread depth.

CiniO

hognef wrote: »

Keep in mind that if something works better on ice (which is more relevant in Ireland than snow) than a pure summer tyre, it'll be because it's made out of a softer compound, which means it'll wear quicker.

Also, it'll be more important to buy fresh tyres, as they will harden over time. With actual winter tyres, there's a massive and surprising difference between new and old tyres, regardless of tread depth.

But will it?

hognef

Wildcard7 wrote: »

If they're good enough for a place with temperatures ranging from -10°C to 35°C, they're also good enough for Ireland where its between 0°C and 25°C. So I'm running all season tyres here as well. Plenty of grip in dry/warm weather, and more than good enough for the "snow" you can expect in Ireland.

Probably, but keep in mind that the Swiss climate (depending on location) will have longer periods of extremes, while Ireland might have more of temperatures of around 0, which tends to come with slippier conditions.

While you might even be ok-ish with summer tyres in -10 degrees, even winter tyres need to be at their best to handle the mix of slush and ice that appears at around 0.

hognef

CiniO wrote: »

But will it?

That has always been one of the arguments for not using winter tyres in the summer (reduced grip being the other; I'm from a wintery country). There are always going to be compromises. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a thing as summer and winter tyres.

CiniO

hognef wrote: »

That has always been one of the arguments for not using winter tyres in the summer (reduced grip being the other; I'm from a wintery country). There are always going to be compromises. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a thing as summer and winter tyres.

I would agree normally.
But my recent experience seem to contradict it.
Maybe type of surface used in Ireland has something to do with it.
Have a look at this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057777905

CJhaughey

I have had both Crossclimate not the + version and Weatherproof. Crossclimate wore OK on my Diesel Accord Tourer, I think just less than 20k miles, Weatherproof similar but the shoulders wore excessively before the tread in the middle was fully worn.
Maybe it was a bit of hard cornering but the Michelins didn't wear quite as badly.
Both performed well, we had no snow or ice to speak of in that time so I had no gauge as to true winter performance.
The Crossclimates were a small bit noisier but gripped better in wet conditions, Weatherproofs quieter but not as grippy cornering in wet conditions. I have gone with Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance this time, probably get a really cold winter and need to buy some winters.
The best winter tyres I have ever used were Continental TS850. I highly recommend these as a allseason/winter tyre. Mine lasted over a full year of hard driving in 4 season use.

Wildcard7

hognef wrote: »

Probably, but keep in mind that the Swiss climate (depending on location) will have longer periods of extremes, while Ireland might have more of temperatures of around 0, which tends to come with slippier conditions.

While you might even be ok-ish with summer tyres in -10 degrees, even winter tyres need to be at their best to handle the mix of slush and ice that appears at around 0.

I'm not sure what your point is. The way I see it, there are four options:

a) Get a set of summer and winter tyres, change every half a year. That costs money (to get them changed), and depending on your mileage you might have to throw out tyres based on age before they're worn down. That's the luxury option. If you want to do this, be my guest, it's probably the best option. Only downside: If there's an odd day in november with 20°C, or in May with -2°C, you're caught out.

b) Use summer tyres all year around. As long as you don't experience any snow, why not. Not ideal once temperatures drop below a certain mark (7°C ballpark figure), if we want to split hairs.

c) Use winter tyres all year around. See b)

d) Use all season tyres all year around. They'll never give you 100% performance, but they'll always give you 90%. You won't be caught out with your summer tyres on a freezing spring day while your winter tyres are neatly stacked in your garage, or the other way around. And if you have to cross the sally gap on a snowy day where there are 5cm of snow or slush, or a quick trip down to Cork where you experience the scorching heat of 25°, they'll take that too.

Ireland doesn't have very distinct seasons at all. It doesn't have -10°C and you won't wake up to 30cm of snow. It's never hotter than 25°C. Weather changes significantly in a matter of days. I can't think of a place where all season tyres make more sense than here.

hognef

Wildcard7 wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is. The way I see it, there are four options:

a) Get a set of summer and winter tyres, change every half a year. That costs money (to get them changed), and depending on your mileage you might have to throw out tyres based on age before they're worn down. That's the luxury option. If you want to do this, be my guest, it's probably the best option. Only downside: If there's an odd day in november with 20°C, or in May with -2°C, you're caught out.

b) Use summer tyres all year around. As long as you don't experience any snow, why not. Not ideal once temperatures drop below a certain mark (7°C ballpark figure), if we want to split hairs.

c) Use winter tyres all year around. See b)

d) Use all season tyres all year around. They'll never give you 100% performance, but they'll always give you 90%. You won't be caught out with your summer tyres on a freezing spring day while your winter tyres are neatly stacked in your garage, or the other way around. And if you have to cross the sally gap on a snowy day where there are 5cm of snow or slush, or a quick trip down to Cork where you experience the scorching heat of 25°, they'll take that too.

Ireland doesn't have very distinct seasons at all. It doesn't have -10°C and you won't wake up to 30cm of snow. It's never hotter than 25°C. Weather changes significantly in a matter of days. I can't think of a place where all season tyres make more sense than here.

I don't disagree with any of that. My point was just that an (all-season) tyre that is great for Switzerland won't necessarily perform the same in Ireland. As you said, Ireland's weather changes a lot more on a day-to-day basis than it would in Switzerland, i.e. the conditions are not the same. Hence it can't be assumed that a particular tyre will perform the same.

The tyre in question might be best at both (Swiss) extremes (-10 and +30 or whatever), but weaker between -2 and +5, for example - the Irish lower end, and where we'd need it to perform best in order to justify buying them.

GTE

I was convinced of the benefits of good All Season tyres around 7 years ago.

1) It provided excellent grip in the snow we got around then. I was the only car in road in the housing estate which was reliably able to move around.

2) More importantly, as its more common; there was a percievavle advantage on cold roads (<7 degree C). I purposely did some extreme heavy braking and acceleration exercises and noticed better performance from my All Seasons as I did a before and after tests on the same stretch of road.

Using opposite tyres for Summer and Winter wont be too noticeable aside from wear rate. That said, most of us will never be in a position to clearly perceive differences until its too late; avoiding action, heavy braking etc., thankfully though I want to make sure I have what I need if that were to happen.

Winter tyres are not needed in my experience of how well my Hankook All Seasons performed when I got them in heavy (for us) snow; country roads too.

Winters in Summer may be usable but I am not convince they will give you what you need when it counts in the same way Summer dont in Winter. A good set of All Seasons will.

In the Summer, even a more Winter leaning All Season from Vredstein felt like driving on goo compared to the more "Irish" Hankooks I used before. I have not tried the Bridgestone All Seasons which I hear good things about. I may try them next; the Hankook H730 have been excellent all year round for me.

We do not get extreme weather of any kind in Ireland; however, our temperature range does fall at that annoying point where you can justify using different tyres from a road temp point of view.

I'm totally convinced by good Summer leaning All Seasons.

The big take away from me after all this was that winter driving conditions is more about road temp. No snow meaning no need for winters or all seasons is too simplistic.

micks_address

I had crossclimates on my civic last year, and crossclimate plus on my Octavia. No complaints really. Never had snow to 'test' them on.. behaved perfectly good in all other types of conditions.. I suppose they do give you a bit more confidence.. hopefully we get snow this winter so can try them on a few hills

micks_address

I had crossclimates on my civic last year, and crossclimate plus on my Octavia. No complaints really. Never had snow to 'test' them on.. behaved perfectly good in all other types of conditions.. I suppose they do give you a bit more confidence.. hopefully we get snow this winter so can try them on a few hills

Wildcard7

hognef wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that. My point was just that an (all-season) tyre that is great for Switzerland won't necessarily perform the same in Ireland. As you said, Ireland's weather changes a lot more on a day-to-day basis than it would in Switzerland, i.e. the conditions are not the same. Hence it can't be assumed that a particular tyre will perform the same.

The tyre in question might be best at both (Swiss) extremes (-10 and +30 or whatever), but weaker between -2 and +5, for example - the Irish lower end, and where we'd need it to perform best in order to justify buying them.

Ok, I understand what you mean, but it still doesn't make too much sense to me. It's not like in Switzerland the weather is -10 or +30 half the time. In Switzerland the peaks are bigger. The overall range is bigger. That's all.

A summer tyre performs best in warm weather (> 7 degrees, ball park figure).
A winter tyre performs best in cold weather (< 7 degrees, ball park figure).
An all season tyre performs best at all reasonable temperatures.

The more extreme the peaks, and the more distinct the seasons, the more it would make sense to go for specialized summer or winter tyres. In Ireland we have a very narrow temperature range, with very small and rare peaks, and not very distinct seasons at all.

micks_address

Wildcard7 wrote: »

hognef wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that. My point was just that an (all-season) tyre that is great for Switzerland won't necessarily perform the same in Ireland. As you said, Ireland's weather changes a lot more on a day-to-day basis than it would in Switzerland, i.e. the conditions are not the same. Hence it can't be assumed that a particular tyre will perform the same.

The tyre in question might be best at both (Swiss) extremes (-10 and +30 or whatever), but weaker between -2 and +5, for example - the Irish lower end, and where we'd need it to perform best in order to justify buying them.

Ok, I understand what you mean, but it still doesn't make too much sense to me. It's not like in Switzerland the weather is -10 or +30 half the time. In Switzerland the peaks are bigger. The overall range is bigger. That's all.

A summer tyre performs best in warm weather (> 7 degrees, ball park figure).
A winter tyre performs best in cold weather (< 7 degrees, ball park figure).
An all season tyre performs best at all reasonable temperatures.

The more extreme the peaks, and the more distinct the seasons, the more it would make sense to go for specialized summer or winter tyres. In Ireland we have a very narrow temperature range, with very small and rare peaks, and not very distinct seasons at all.

which if im reading right would suggest that an all season like the crossclimate+ is a solid choice for our climate

CJhaughey

micks_address wrote: »

which if im reading right would suggest that an all season like the crossclimate+ is a solid choice for our climate

I found them good, I've been experimenting over the last 8-9 years with winters and all seasons, I do believe that a Good allseason will be a better choice for winter driving than a summer, given that cold and greasy conditions predominate during most of the year from Sept to March.
That said exceptional winter tyres perform much the same all seasons with only possibly slightly accelerated wear (I didn't notice it) as a drawback.
I have run Nokian WRG2 winters, All Season Plus,Weatherproof Continental TS850, Michelin Crossclimate. I went with Goodyear Efficientgrip Performance this summer but if it gets cold I'll be buying a set of Conti TS 860's with Contiseal.