Turas Nua and Fas Course

LegacyUser

HI,

Been JSA For over a year. Got a text this morning from my case worker too inform me she cancelled my appointment for the 20th of september and turas nua will be in contact shortly with an appointment, thing is though I'm on the list for a fas course that was suppose too be starting on the 14th of Aug but it was pushed back too 28th of Aug due too low numbers.

Will I still be able too do this course or are this crowd gonna be in my way?

wmpdd3

Go to the SW office in the morning and bring proof of this course with you. Act quickly because as soon as you sign up to Turas Nua, you won't be able to do the FAS course.

There was a guy last year in my VTOS course that made this mistake and it delayed his attendance on the VTOS course by a year,even though he had his letter saying he was due to start the VTOS course.

LegacyUser

I was afraid of that, feels like I've been thrown too the lions, she knew I wanted too do this course, I emailed my "Former" case worker, I doubt I'll get much satisfaction from her on the matter, I don't have any letter from fas, the course is meant too start monday week but only if there is enough people, what am I suppose too do ?

artichoke

Would also advise you to go to SW office to sort your course out. Once on Turas Nua, your advisor will decide if you can take up a training course with fas or any other training. It is likely you will be denied any training if it doesn't lead to fulltime employment and the course has to be full time.

Bronco Bullfrog

artichoke wrote: »

Would also advise you to go to SW office to sort your course out. Once on Turas Nua, your advisor will decide if you can take up a training course with fas or any other training. It is likely you will be denied any training if it doesn't lead to fulltime employment and the course has to be full time.

The course does not need to be full-time. I just did a year on Jobs Path and also did a Part-time Springboard course. If it is a full-time course then they can give you an exemption from Jobs Path until the course is finished and then you have to return to Jobs path, because my course was part-time hours I had to do my course and attend Jobs Path. That's what they told me. To the OP. Check my post under the title 'Turas Nua and BTEA'. In my case it was a Springboard course I can't see what difference who is running the course should make. But, isn't FAS no longer in existence? Are they called Employment Services now?

artichoke

@Bronco Bullfrog
Thanks for the info regarding courses. I was under the impression it had to be a full time course. In my case it was linked with BTEA . In order to receive BTEA the course has to be full time. I thought it would apply to all other courses too also in relation to job path.There seems to be a lot of miscommunication between Turas Nua and SW. And I guess it depends on how knowledgeable your advisor is. In my case I went straight to the SW to ask them if I can follow on studying QQI 6 Business course, because I was recently "invited"to attend job path and I was told that of course I can return to my course in September but still have to attend job path. What is news to me is that you have to return to job path after completing the college course. So that could mean that even if I found a job straight after college Turas Nua can still hassle me to claim their bonus....?!

Fas is now called Solas and is shared between Department of Social Protection and the Department of Education.

Bronco Bullfrog

artichoke wrote: »

@Bronco Bullfrog
Thanks for the info regarding courses. I was under the impression it had to be a full time course. In my case it was linked with BTEA . In order to receive BTEA the course has to be full time. I thought it would apply to all other courses too also in relation to job path.There seems to be a lot of miscommunication between Turas Nua and SW. And I guess it depends on how knowledgeable your advisor is. In my case I went straight to the SW to ask them if I can follow on studying QQI 6 Business course, because I was recently "invited"to attend job path and I was told that of course I can return to my course in September but still have to attend job path. What is news to me is that you have to return to job path after completing the college course. So that could mean that even if I found a job straight after college Turas Nua can still hassle me to claim their bonus....?!

Fas is now called Solas and is shared between Department of Social Protection and the Department of Education.

I was just posting my experience of having to attend Jobs Path and also undertaking an education course at the same time. Perhaps a student who has had to defer a year of their course for whatever reason and ended up on Jobs Path or a student who has been placed on Jobs Path during summer months could use it as an example or argument like ‘how come Springboard students can receive an exemption from having to attend Jobs Path until their course is finished’ it just seems unfair how one group of students can be be allowed to defer attending Jobs Path and another group not. A student who has not completed their studies and finds themselves on Jobs Path could mean they are placed in a job they don't want. This would disqualify them from BTEA and a student grant. This makes a nonsense of the time, not to mention the cost (often to the state) of the time they have spent studying if they cannot finish their course due to Jobs Path and its causing people anxiety which isn’t being helped by SW and Turas Nua staff not knowing what’s what.
There does seem to be a huge amount of varying experiences being posted on here concerning Turas Nua. I agree with you it seems all down to the individual personal advisor. You would have to confirm with them, if you will have to return to Jobs Path when your course ends. Turas Nua told me ‘in order to get released from Jobs Path to do a full-time springboard course I would be required to return to Jobs path when the course ends’. They do seem to want to get their hooks into you. In my case my course was part time. So I did the course but I also had to attend Jobs path. But they only brought me in every couple of weeks.
If you were to find employment immediately after finishing your course you should not have to deal with Turas Nua. You should only be required to deal with them when claiming unemployment benefit. There are many posts on here highlighting how Turas Nua are hounding people who found jobs off their own back. Turas Nua claim they are supporting people in their new employment. The general opinion seems to be not to give your new job details to Turas Nua so they can claim bonuses, to just ignore them.
There are also posts stating Turas Nua receive bonuses and posts stating they don’t. I found them very accommodating in terms of my studies whilst attending Jobs path, if they were solely out for a bonus they could have tried to ‘strong-arm’ me into any job, but this was not their approach. However, I still, like many others found it to be a waste of time. There was nothing I got from attending there, that I could not have got from the internet or visiting my local library to get books on how to conduct myself at job interviews. I kept asking them about career advice, my handler kept making a note of my requests on scraps of paper, after my repeatedly asking, she eventually confessed they had no-one who could offer career advice! She must have known that all along!

artichoke

Yes there are a variety of people on here who made different experience with Turas Nua/Seetec. I count my blessing that I am not with Seetec. I only had 2 meetings with an advisor and at my first she asked me in which area I am interested to work in, so it seems they do give you a choice. She is also a very friendly person, it really depends who sits behind the desk and how well you click with that person as they can make your life difficult otherwise. Still I guess you were lucky with your advisor. Had he/she disagreed with your course or found a job or a work placement for you it could have been the end of your course. As far as I know their job is to get you into full time work and that is what they get paid for so I heard now that they also get a bonus for placing you into a Fetac course.

It does seem to me that they are doing just box ticking excersises and their staff seems unskilled in giving career advise. Most of them have their background in sales but are not trained to work with unemployed people. Anyone unemployable or over the age of 55 gets parked in their in house courses as far as I know, the rest gets pushed to take on any job or taking up a course. Now the people I know who finished with Turas Nua told me though they were pushed by their advisor to apply everywhere ,in the end they were not forced to take on a job they didn't want. And you really only meet up every 2 weeks for 30 minutes so it is not that bad.

I just think it is a waste of taxpayers money to place people onto job path who are already in education. The only explanation I can think of is that even if you are on BTEA and in college you are still considered unemployed and so have a duty to look for a job in summer between courses when you sign back on JA for the short period. The other is that the state doesn't want to fund third level education for those on JA anymore and save tax payers money. I do understand their reason for that as in the past people kept hopping from one fetac course to the next one for the sole purpose to keep the SW of their back. I do agree that there should be no funding for courses that do not lead to employment but disagree with denying access to courses for those that really want to better themselves through education and would have no other means to do fund this without financial support by the state.

Bronco Bullfrog

I don't think the Turas Nua advisor I had could prevent me from doing the education course, an hour before meeting her a SW welfare representative told the group of people I was with that Springboard and some other courses (I can't remember the name of them now) were options for us. My advisor did seem a bit put out by me telling her this, and then pulling paperwork out and showing it to her. It did shut her up there and then, she was baffled, she had to check it out and make some calls, the next time I saw her she told me I could do the course, I think it is up to SW they call the shots. The Turas Nua advisor could not do much about it, but having said that they just let me do the course, the rest of my time with Turas Nua was purely a box ticking exercise. It was just pure bureaucracy, SW put me on jobs path, and made me stay on it, even though the Turas Nua people did very little with me, just went through the motions.
Yes I totally agree with you, they should let students finish their courses before making them attend jobs path. It serves no purpose putting them on it until they complete their courses. In my experience Jobs path does not work.
Regarding the staff at Turas Nua, I found them to be OK people who seem to genuinely want to help. They don't come across like HR or recruitment professionals. They glossed over a lot of important stuff. Like they asked a multitude of irrelevant questions but never anything important like how did my last job end, or if I had any up to date references that I could use for job applications. Any time you go for a job interview these are relevant areas that are going to have to be covered. Turas Nua ask reams of questions but never anything like that. No recruitment agency worth its salt would ignore those kind of areas surely? They don't attempt to discover the reasons why anyone may be long term unemployed. They seem to have a set script they are working off, if you start asking them questions I found they seem to gloss over stuff and don't always address it.
I am now hearing that some employers won't even engage with Turas Nua or Seetec. Are they are shooting themselves in the foot?

artichoke

I think the reason why employers don't want to engage is that they probably consider people who are put involuntary on the Job Path programme are not willing to work. I cannot blame them, if you were an employer would you employ someone who was sent to you by Job Path? Knowing full well that that person is long term unemployed and maybe has no interest to work at all? I don't say that everyone who is long term unemployed is work shy, it's just hard for someone who has been long time out of work with no structure in their day, suddenly going from zero input to an 8 hours working day. Employers are afraid those long term out of work are not reliable, have no motivation and may leave the company after a short time. It costs them money, time and effort to train someone on the job, they don't want to waste their time on someone who may not stick around for long.

I know some really bright people who are out of work for over a year and have problems finding work because of the widening gap. They started out applying everywhere and then gave up when no results came in. Confidence goes out the window pretty quickly after a while on the dole. Motivation as well. I too think employers should give a chance to those people that are willing to work and learn.

What bugs me now is if I find a job myself without any help from TN and Turas Nua contacts my employer, how negatively will that reflect on me? I mean my employer may get the impression I only applied for the job because of job path and not because I want to work for him. This really annoys me because it makes me look unreliable, unambitious and dependent.

Bronco Bullfrog

Yes, I personally would be embarrassed to have Turas Nua phoning my employer checking up on me, the employer may think what's up with this person that they have to keep checking up. I don't think this aspect of Jobs Path is a good idea at all, I know they claim they are supporting the worker in their new employment but really! I can't see what kind of input or influence they are going to have with the employer.
There are a lot of posts on boards with people stating they are not going to give Turas Nua / Seetec their new employment details and ignore all communication from them once they start their new jobs. What sanctions can be placed on someone who is now in work. I don't think Turas Nua / Seetec are going to take them to court for breach of contract?
I see there is also a Jobs Plus initiative whereby Social welfare will offer a payment to an employer who gives a job to a long term unemployed person. The employer can receive a payment of €10,000 as an incentive.

artichoke

Hmm, don't know if this is a good idea with Job Plus paying the employer , will that not lead to exploitation of the initiative? Say the employer takes someone on but when the time is up will get another replacement from SW to receive the €10,000?

I read the posts about some refusing to give TN/Seetec employment details, but wouldn't they find out anyway through DSP and/or revenue? Revenue is linked to DSP so will report to DSP about any changes e.g if someone has registered for income tax, etc. who was formerly unemployed?

Bronco Bullfrog

Well, I am sure the government will have some clauses and time constraints about how long the employee has to be in the job before they pay out and how many times the employer can claim the jobs plus payment.
Regarding TN and SEETEC being linked to DSP and revenue. Yes, that sounds feasible in theory.

I mentioned earlier DSP representative and Turas Nua advisors in the same building. The DSP representative gives a presentation to the new intake of people going into the Jobs Path programme. DSP rep tells us we can do education courses such as Springboard. These are options open to us. Immediately after the presentation I tell this to my Turas Nua advisor, and I told her I had already registered for a course. That was news to her! Totally knocked her bandy! She had no idea Springboard courses were an option. It definitely was not in her brief. We were there to find jobs. Perfect case of the left hand not talking to the right hand.

As to what access TN /Seetec can get to people's new employers or if they will continue to pursue details through other government agencies is anyone's guess. People are saying TN / Seetec have been hounding them for months to get their employers details, so maybe there is a limit to what access they can get. But there wasn't a whole lot of linking going on between DSP and Turas Nua concerning the information being given to their clients concerning options open to them, Turas Nua were totally in the dark as to what DSP were telling their clients concerning courses you can do even if you are on jobs path. The map didn't match the territory that day!! :P I wouldn't mind, but I literally walked out of one room to the room next door, all under the same roof! Got two different stories! Ho hum. Adios!

Bradley Pitt

artichoke wrote: »

Hmm, don't know if this is a good idea with Job Plus paying the employer , will that not lead to exploitation of the initiative? Say the employer takes someone on but when the time is up will get another replacement from SW to receive the €10,000?

I read the posts about some refusing to give TN/Seetec employment details, but wouldn't they find out anyway through DSP and/or revenue? Revenue is linked to DSP so will report to DSP about any changes e.g if someone has registered for income tax, etc. who was formerly unemployed?

I think People hate being hounded by Turas Nua to give them their new Employers name especially if they got the Job by themselves. People see Turas Nua as purely a Private Business out to make as much commission out of ( Customers ) as they call everyone on Jobpath. And for signing up way too many People, 100 case load of People for each Turas Nua Employee and getting a signing on Fee for each one. Crazy system