Accommodation, Cost of living - How is it affecting IT

moycullen14

Media is full of the current accommodation crisis - especially Dublin but spreading to the other urban centres:

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/accommodation-digital-tech-ireland-salaries

How is it affecting development?
Is it affecting recruitment/retention in the cities?
Is there a fall-off or increase in foreign job applicants?
Are these hi-tech 'professional' jobs or lo-tech jobs in hi-tech companies?
Any war stories?

Must say I'm glad not to be in Dublin. Whilst Cork is a lot more limited in terms of money and opportunities, the quality of life is still good.

srsly78

I rent and work in Dublin, like everyone else paying a fortune right now.

What really struck me tho is this: my ma does AirBnB in Meath. I was visiting home a few weeks ago and her gaff was basically full of foreign IT consultants that were working but still trying to find permanent accommodation.

So yeah get a job outside Dublin is the obvious answer right? But no the money is fscking **** everywhere else. Rent is still quite cheap compared to London

um7y1h83ge06nx

srsly78 wrote: »

So yeah get a job outside Dublin is the obvious answer right? But no the money is fscking **** everywhere else. Rent is still quite cheap compared to London

I wonder is the difference between salaries in Dublin and elsewhere make Dublin worth it or not?

I'm in Limerick and for instance a permanent Java Developer with 10 years experience could get between 60 to maybe a max of 70k depending on the company and negotiation.

moycullen14

Bowen Mango Racket wrote: »

I wonder is the difference between salaries in Dublin and elsewhere make Dublin worth it or not?

I'm in Limerick and for instance a permanent Java Developer with 10 years experience could get between 60 to maybe a max of 70k depending on the company and negotiation.

I'd say that very much depends on individual circumstances. I believe the rate differential is upto 20%. Fine if you're young, free and single but not so good when you take house prices, commuting, etc. into account.

I'm seeing more and more foreigners in Cork, including from the UK. The UK presence is only going to increase with Brexit and sterling tanking.

srsly78

The rate differential is more like 100% at upper end (contract rates etc). Simply don't see high paying jobs outside Dublin.

Buford T Justice

srsly78 wrote: »

The rate differential is more like 100% at upper end (contract rates etc). Simply don't see high paying jobs outside Dublin.

Yet

Berserker

One of our DBAs, good lad with plenty of experience, is moving away from Ireland and he has cited the cost of accommodation in Dublin as his primary reason. He earns a very good salary and he can afford to live in Dublin but he is sick of forking out the silly amounts of money on rent.

boreder

Berserker wrote: »

One of our DBAs, good lad with plenty of experience, is moving away from Ireland and he has cited the cost of accommodation in Dublin as his primary reason. He earns a very good salary and he can afford to live in Dublin but he is sick of forking out the silly amounts of money on rent.

You'll find most places that have a thriving tech industry are expensive to live in. Take the West Coast of USA as an example. Silicon Valley property got crazy, so then Seattle thrived. Then Seattle property got crazy, so Portland was next. It's going the same way there now, too.

While not on the West Coast, it looks like Austin, TX is next.

A lot of the time, you can't have it both ways. If you work in a thriving industry with good salaries, property in the general area will be expensive.

14ned

boreder wrote: »

A lot of the time, you can't have it both ways. If you work in a thriving industry with good salaries, property in the general area will be expensive.

Or put another way, the way to make real money instead of turning up in an office daily is to buy land around a city where a knowledge industry booms. That lets you cream off a significant proportion of that wealth generated, and has led to much of the dysfunction since the 1980s in terms of wealth redistribution from those who create wealth to those who parasite from it. Eventually the parasites suck down so much of the wealth generated that the whole thing collapses, and historically we get war.

The same pattern has happened throughout history of course since well before the Romans, and land value taxation (annual tax on the land value excluding buildings, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax) has been proven to work well to counteract it. But good luck getting Irish politicians to enact that, it would be instant political suicide.

Niall

Berserker

boreder wrote: »

A lot of the time, you can't have it both ways. If you work in a thriving industry with good salaries, property in the general area will be expensive.

The cost of renting in Ireland, Dublin in particular, is down to the lack of availability. Also, the member of staff that I posted about cited the lack of value for money in the city as a big part of his reason for leaving. He seemed happy enough to fork out €1,500+ for somewhere to live but he expects a decent place for that amount.

beauf

boreder wrote: »

You'll find most places that have a thriving tech industry are expensive to live in. Take the West Coast of USA as an example. ...

IMO the IT industry wages here are not inflating the cost of anything.

Its simply a housing shortage.

moycullen14

beauf wrote: »

IMO the IT industry wages here are not inflating the cost of anything.

Its simply a housing shortage.

I'm not so sure about that. I think the presence of Apple, Google, Facebook et al is driving up demand and hence cost. These are generally well-paid jobs.

Pelvis

Cost only goes up if supply doesn't meet demand.

The housing shortage is at crisis level in this country at the moment, and nothing is being done about it.

14ned

Pelvis wrote: »

Cost only goes up if supply doesn't meet demand.

The housing shortage is at crisis level in this country at the moment, and nothing is being done about it.

Nothing can be done about it until the 7 years Capital Gains Relief from 2012 expires, as it makes zero sense to sell property until then.

From 7 December 2018 onwards you'll see a ton of new development. Until then, it'll be nothing, otherwise you hand over 33% of any capital gains.

Strangely enough the politicians never mention this fact that absolutely nothing can change until 2019. Anyone in the building industry understands it very well.

Niall

The_B_Man

What was so special about 2012, re CGT?

14ned

The_B_Man wrote: »

What was so special about 2012, re CGT?

If you bought distressed property between 2012 and 2014 and you don't sell it within 7 years, you pay no CGT @ 33% on any gains.

This caused lots of global investors to pile in and buy up all the most valuable development land which the government then needed of its books to escape the bailout. But it also means that as an investor there is no point in doing a thing with the land until the seven years elapses.

That's why we're only building hundreds of new houses per year right now, but I would expect 2019-2021 you'll see a huge boom in building, indeed house and land prices will probably drop a bit such will be the glut of new homes. I'm intending to buy a site and build my own in fact in 2019 as I think I'll get a better deal in two years time than now.

The government ministers are more than well aware that nothing can be done about housing until 2019 when it'll fix itself. They just don't say so as it would confuse the simple brains of the voters.

Niall