heart rate monitor training

dickidy

Hi,
i have recently bought a garmin 920 xt and with the heart rate monitor.
i am new to using a heart rate monitor and just looking for advance or tips on training with it .my runs are usually for a
5 k is just go hard
10 k is just try beat my best time by keeping below that pace
half is just try keep it under 5 min kilometers .
i dont really have a structure to my training.

Thanks in advanve

Annie get your Run

Training with a heart rate monitor is brilliant, if you do it right, otherwise it's useless.

The very first thing you need to do is get your maximum heart rate. The internet is full of formulas you can use to calculate this, they are worthless. There is only one way to get your max HR and that's to try and achieve it while running. Here are some ways you can do that. (warm up with some easy jogging first).

1) Run as fast as you can stand for 3 minutes. Rest for 3 minutes, then repeat the hard run again, and note the highest reading from that second trial.
2) Another simple running test: Run a mile at tempo pace (hard but not killer), then a fifth lap that's faster, and a sixth that's as fast as you can go, accelerating as much as you can toward the end. The highest number you see is your max.
3) Some runners also swear by 5k races. If you race that distance (about 3 miles) with every ounce of effort you've got, your highest reading toward the end of the race should be your max.

Once you've done that you can then start to establish your recovery, easy, tempo and interval zones. Either let the watch tell you (if you use garmin connect or strava it will allow you to set your max HR based on your test above and then give you guidelines for zones). Or download one of the many reliable training plans that use HR zones.

Probably the most important thing is that you should be running the majority of your runs at easy pace/zone. HADD (who was a coach in the US) uses a very simple formula for calculating easy pace, it's your max HR -50. You then run all easy runs at that HR zone or lower (not the average, the constant). That's just to give you an idea of what's out there. Find a plan that suits you best and be consistent.

Currently you're running everything at your fastest possible pace. This is a common mistake for new runners to make but it's most definitely the wrong way to do it. Slow down and only run hard in a race or when your plan calls for a tempo or race pace miles.

Best of luck with the new watch.

dickidy

Thanks Annie,

i did the 5 k test and managed it in just over 20 min and my max heart rate was 190 and average was 177 bpm.
yeh i though going race pace every session was wrong but gave me the motivation to get up and out but if i have a set plan i should be able to make myself keep to it.
thanks again .
now to go luck up some training programs

torqtorq

Its also a good idea to record your resting heart rate first thing in the morning.

This represents your zero training load point.

If your HR_rest is 50 bpm then a 70% training load would be 50 + 0.7 x ( 190 - 50 ) = 148 bpm

A lot of training programs base their training load on maximum HR only but this makes no sense as peoples resting HR vary so much.

Annie get your Run

torqtorq wrote: »

Its also a good idea to record your resting heart rate first thing in the morning.

This represents your zero training load point.

If your HR_rest is 50 bpm then a 70% training load would be 50 + 0.7 x ( 190 - 50 ) = 148 bpm

A lot of training programs base their training load on maximum HR only but this makes no sense as peoples resting HR vary so much.

Good point, doing this also allows you to see when something is wrong or if you're over training. So, if your avg resting HR is 50, and suddenly it's 60 two days in a row you know you might be coming down with a cold / bug or you've simply overdone a race or training run and can take a few days rest.

dickidy

so my resting heart rate is 60 so 190-60 =130
130 x .7=91
91+60 =151
so whats is the 151

thanks

jameshayes

dickidy wrote: »

so my resting heart rate is 60 so 190-60 =130
130 x .7=91
91+60 =151
so whats is the 151

thanks

151 is your 70% figure.. have a look at the table below:

The Muppet

Its something that has to be done right. I trained by heart rate last year for DCM , running in urban areas where the running was stop/start to cross roads etc . My average heart rate on finishing runs was quite low , I think that gave me an inaccurate appraisal of my fitness at the time .

Just something to bear in mind with HR training.

dickidy

Yeh i have been reading up on it and its confusing the hell out of me. run slower to get faster and fitter etc.
now i have my a base HR to work off i can google a few running and cycling plans based on heart rate ( and try stick to them )

thanks for the advice folks.

and if anyone has any or links please dont be afraid to share .

sorry for the bother.

jameshayes

dickidy wrote: »

Yeh i have been reading up on it and its confusing the hell out of me. run slower to get faster and fitter etc.
now i have my a base HR to work off i can google a few running and cycling plans based on heart rate ( and try stick to them )

thanks for the advice folks.

and if anyone has any or links please dont be afraid to share .

sorry for the bother.

Garmin Connect has HR based plans. They are great because you can sync them with your watch and use the 'do workout' function and follow the instructions on the watch.. ie: run 400m at 4:30 pace... rest 60 seconds - its interactive and full of beeps and buzzes to keep you on track

I found it hard to get my head around the 'slower = faster' thing at the start, but it works. To put it into a very basic form; you have 2 power systems - Anaerobic and Aerobic. At the moment you're only training Anaerobically, if you start to also train aerobically(running slow) you'll get faster overall

dickidy

That's great , thanks a million. That's tonight's workout sorted . Read the instructions and set a training plan. Thanks again

torqtorq

jameshayes wrote: »

151 is your 70% figure.. have a look at the table below:

Note that this table actually uses maximum heart rate and thus 70% is 0.7 x 190 = 133.

I feel that working with maximum heart rate and ignoring your resting heartrate is nonsensical.

Unfortunately this is precisely what a lot of training programs do.

Think of it this way. Whilst remaining aerobic your HR will rise linearly with increasing running speed. It makes sense that your resting heart rate represents zero velocity and thus zero effort.

Now imagine a person with a 45 bmp resting heart rate. They can actually move - slowly - at 60 bmp whereas the person with a 60 bmp resting heartrate clearly has a zero velocity.

To have training programs that ignore this - based purely on maximum HR - is ridiculous.

However having pointed this out, HR training is an excellent training method even when using a program only based on maximum HR.

rom

You might want to read this a few times too https://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

Keeks

torqtorq wrote: »

To have training programs that ignore this - based purely on maximum HR - is ridiculous.

However having pointed this out, HR training is an excellent training method even when using a program only based on maximum HR.

Do you have a link to information or table similar to above which is based on Zero trainng Point Load?

torqtorq

Keeks wrote: »

Do you have a link to information or table similar to above which is based on Zero trainng Point Load?

This method is often known as "Heart Rate Reserve" or HRR method. Some of Polars heart rate monitors have a feature built in for this.

The original equation is often called the Karvonen formula though I would substitute the actual measured maximum HR for the 220 - age used in the equation.

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/heart-rate-reserve.html

Actually Polar also advise that you use the true maximum heart rate in the Karvonen formula.

http://support.polar.com/en/support/Heart_Rate_Reserve__HRR

I have never seen a table for this probably because it would have to be multi dimensional.

Googling "Heart Rate Reserve" will find plenty of info on this method.

dwayneshintzy

I've been interested in doing some HRM training myself......my heart rate seems to spike awfully high when running though. Tested out on a few different devices and even saw a GP about it, so doesn't seem to be a faulty monitor. I'd have a resting heart rate of around 60, but will get up as high as 215 when running. I did a 5k in quite a slow time last week (though it was quite hot/humid), and averaged 188 bpm. Sound a bit odd?

roosterman71

How do people keep their HRM up on the chest when running flat out? Mine keeps slipping down. I've tried it tight, not too tight, etc. Handy runs it's OK and ya can adjust as you go, but sprinting that's not possible. I'd like to do one of these tests but not much point if the HRM won't stay in position

zulutango

Can somebody recommend a method (on the track preferably) to determine maximum heart rate? Mine is stubbornly low. When on a tough hill run it only goes to the mid 160's but I haven't tried an actual max test yet.

cjt156

Quick & dirty method, effective in the majority of cases:
Warm up, do 800m flat out. Rest for 5 minutes then go again. Your max HR should peak during the second 800.
Calculate off that.

zulutango

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I've been interested in doing some HRM training myself......my heart rate seems to spike awfully high when running though. Tested out on a few different devices and even saw a GP about it, so doesn't seem to be a faulty monitor. I'd have a resting heart rate of around 60, but will get up as high as 215 when running. I did a 5k in quite a slow time last week (though it was quite hot/humid), and averaged 188 bpm. Sound a bit odd?

What did your GP say? Everything I've read suggests that we're all wildly different, and maybe that's just your make-up.

torqtorq

There are a couple of equations used for calculating your likely MHR based on age.

1/ MHR = 220 - age

2/ MHR = 208 - 0.7 x age

Number 2 is the newer one and is supposed to be more accurate, particularly for people below 25 or above 55.

Do not be surprised though if your measured MHR is a good 10 bmp different from the results of these equations.

dwayneshintzy

zulutango wrote: »

What did your GP say? Everything I've read suggests that we're all wildly different, and maybe that's just your make-up.

Honestly, that's pretty much exactly what he said. I haven't used much heart rate training though, so still feels odd having these very high ratings even when I'm relatively fit and not even close to flat out.

Keeks

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

. I'd have a resting heart rate of around 60, but will get up as high as 215 when running. I did a 5k in quite a slow time last week (though it was quite hot/humid), and averaged 188 bpm. Sound a bit odd?

what type of HRM have you tested this with...is it a chest strap one?
When you have tried with other HRMs does you HR always go high over 200?

What I have seem with chest strap HRM in the past is that if the contacts are dry, then I would see my HR shoot up over 200 when clearly it was not and I was only at a tempo pace.....a quick wetting of the contacts (spit on finger and rub) and it was back to what It should be

dwayneshintzy

Chest strap and wrist monitors, and pretty consistently over 210 when I put in maximum effort on any of them.

dickidy

Hi james ,

i am doing a looking at the garmin heart rate training plan for the half marathon. i did my last half in 1 h 43 min. im looking at week 10 ands the hardest day
• Warm up, 10 minutes.
• Run in Z4, threshold pace, 4 minutes. Recovery run, 90 seconds. Repeat 5 times.
• Cool down, 5 to 10 minutes.
• Stretch....
is this going to make me faster as its all based on heart rate so it doesnt make a differance of fitness level.
thanks

redandwhite

rom wrote: »

You might want to read this a few times too https://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

Interesting stuff.

dickidy

ITS MIND BOGGOLING

dickidy

i need your help again folks,

i have been using the heart rate training program on the garmin 920xt and love it ( if im not being told what to do i will go as fast and as long as i can ), but here is my problem
using the the program based on BPM my zones are Z5 179-199
Z4 159-179
Z3 139-159
Z2 119-139
Z1 100-119

using the same program based on %MHR Z5 184-199
Z4 169-184
Z3 154-169
Z2 139-154
Z1 124-139

is there ment to be a diffeance in the two or have i got it set up wrong.

TFBubendorfer

dickidy wrote: »

i need your help again folks,

i have been using the heart rate training program on the garmin 920xt and love it ( if im not being told what to do i will go as fast and as long as i can ), but here is my problem
using the the program based on BPM my zones are Z5 179-199
Z4 159-179
Z3 139-159
Z2 119-139
Z1 100-119

using the same program based on %MHR Z5 184-199
Z4 169-184
Z3 154-169
Z2 139-154
Z1 124-139

is there ment to be a diffeance in the two or have i got it set up wrong.

HR zones are supposed to be the same, they were originally set up by coach Daniels and the formula hasn't changed since.

Those two sets of numbers are definitely working off different max HR values. My first thing to do would be to check the setup on your Garmin.

dickidy

yeh i had a look at my set up and both should be working of max heart rate off 199.
i got the %of max heart rate zones 90-100 % 80-90% 70-80% and so on .
the first lot seemed very low as doing any work in zone 2 was near impossible ...l

dickidy

i went in and changed it manually on the garmin to the above heart rates based on % of max

TFBubendorfer

Sorry, my brain must have been still asleep when I typed the last post. HR zones are by Joe Friel, not Daniels. Also, they should not work off max HR but your lactate threshold heart rate. If you follow that kind of training, it is well worth reading more about it, for the man himself, e.g. https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/

My guess is that Garmin just bastardised Friel's ideas.

dickidy

so maybe the top figures are correct and the ones i entered manually are wrong.
maybe they are two diff figures .

my max it 199

Down South

do you use the hrm on all sessions or just periodically once youve established hr based paces? My garmin has a wrist based monitor but I have concerns over its accuracy. Was contemplating using a chest strap periodically

MollsGap

great thread, thank you all for the advice on here

zulutango

Down South wrote:

do you use the hrm on all sessions or just periodically once youve established hr based paces? My garmin has a wrist based monitor but I have concerns over its accuracy. Was contemplating using a chest strap periodically

I was in the same boat and wasn't happy with the fluctuations in the heart rate data so I got a chest strap and it's far more reliable and trustworthy. Would recommend.

TFBubendorfer

dickidy wrote: »

so maybe the top figures are correct and the ones i entered manually are wrong.
maybe they are two diff figures .

my max it 199

The top figures are very low. My own max HR is about 190 and I couldn't train on those. I'd be surprised if they were correct to be honest.

dickidy

i use the chest strap every run.

dickidy

yeh i was ending up in zone 5 for most fast runs and trying to get back to zone 2 was impossible when doing intervals . think i will change the watch to use percentage of max heart rate then based on bpm , see what happens .
thanks again folks , its much appreciated

MollsGap

I have just recently started running and using a chest strap HRM and saw I was up at 180 bpm for a 5K.
Is this a reflection of my lack of fitness or was I pushing too hard?

zulutango

MollsGap wrote: »

I have just recently started running and using a chest strap HRM and saw I was up at 180 bpm for a 5K.
Is this a reflection of my lack of fitness or was I pushing too hard?

Was it 180bpm for the full race or just towards the end? What age are you?

MollsGap

zulutango wrote: »

Was it 180bpm for the full race or just towards the end? What age are you?

175 during and 183 at end or so. I would only have had one run per week in the lead up to the race. Am 40s

El Caballo

MollsGap wrote: »

I have just recently started running and using a chest strap HRM and saw I was up at 180 bpm for a 5K.
Is this a reflection of my lack of fitness or was I pushing too hard?

It is just a number that doesn't reflect anything in isolation on either of those. If you had ran 100 miles every week for the last year in the lead up to the race, it would've still being just as high as all it shows is how hard your heart is working. Towards the end of a 5k race, your heart rate will always be approaching HR Max given an honest effort. For instance, I would probably be a lot fitter than you(no offence) as I train a lot more but I still reach the high 190's at the end of a 5k which would be close to my Max HR. Max HR differs hugely from person to person, A friend of mine has a lab tested Max of 168 and is in his 20's and is way faster than me but I know guys who are also 200+ as well and faster as well. That's just the way it is without getting into stuff that's way more complicated.

HR can be useful in training to help stay with zones like easy and moderate etc and seeing gains in fitness by seeing your pace get faster for a given HR over weeks and months but seeing a number like 180 or 190 alone during a 5k race don't really suggest anything. Your race times will inform you of how fit you are and how you are progressing in that sense.

MollsGap

El Caballo wrote: »

HR can be useful in training to help stay with zones like easy and moderate etc and seeing gains in fitness by seeing your pace get faster for a given HR over weeks and months but seeing a number like 180 or 190 alone during a 5k race don't really suggest anything. Your race times will inform you of how fit you are and how you are progressing in that sense.

Thank you for this information. I was worried when I read the 220 less your age was the maximum heart rate and feared I might be overdoing it!

For easy running or easy cycling what might be a good HRM range for an easy Sunday run?

El Caballo

MollsGap wrote: »

Thank you for this information. I was worried when I read the 220 less your age was the maximum heart rate and feared I might be overdoing it!

For easy running or easy cycling what might be a good HRM range for an easy Sunday run?

No bother! To get the best estimate, you are best off using what they call Heart Rate Reserve.

Take your HR first thing in the morning to calculate your Resting HR. say for example, it is 60bpm. You then subtract that from your Max HR of roughly 185 which will give you 125. 125 is your Heart rate reserve.

An Easy run would then be 65-75%. To get that, just multiply your HR reserve by .65 and .75. That will give you 81.25 and 93.75 in this example. Add your Resting HR of 60 back onto those and you get an easy run range of 141-153bpm.

I think 185 might be a good guide for you max HR right now so all you need to do is find your Resting HR and a little bit of math to get your easy run range.

This pace will feel incredibly slow to you at first but if you stick to it for a while, the results will be show as that's great place for you start building up your engine and fitness when just starting out. best of luck with it:)

dickidy

ok so I am now using the % of max on the garmin to set my zones and my workouts are much harder and actually feel like a workout,

SixtaWalthers

Recently purchased a heartbeat monitor because sometimes, I feel the irregular beat, especially when having chicken stuff with spice. The doctor referred to use a heartbeat monitor. Can you suggest a good one? Do you think Fitbit or Garmin will work for me? Secondly, I also found this technique to control heart palpitations over the internet to normalize the heart rate. I used it but as I didn’t have the monitor, that’s why I don’t know exactly that it helped or not. However, I got little relief.

roosterman71

SixtaWalthers wrote: »

Recently purchased a heartbeat monitor because sometimes, I feel the irregular beat, especially when having chicken stuff with spice. The doctor referred to use a heartbeat monitor. Can you suggest a good one? Do you think Fitbit or Garmin will work for me? Secondly, I also found this technique to control heart palpitations over the internet to normalize the heart rate. I used it but as I didn’t have the monitor, that’s why I don’t know exactly that it helped or not. However, I got little relief.

I think yer in the wrong thread. I don't think Garmin/Fitbit are detailed enough to determine irregular heartbeats. And one these forums, no medical advice is to be given so best talking with your GP over what exactly they are recommending

SixtaWalthers

Maybe I should look at device for Arrhythmia. Going to get appointment from doctor. Let's see what he says.

TFBubendorfer

SixtaWalthers wrote: »

Recently purchased a heartbeat monitor because sometimes, I feel the irregular beat, especially when having chicken stuff with spice. The doctor referred to use a heartbeat monitor. Can you suggest a good one? Do you think Fitbit or Garmin will work for me? Secondly, I also found this technique to control heart palpitations over the internet to normalize the heart rate. I used it but as I didn’t have the monitor, that’s why I don’t know exactly that it helped or not. However, I got little relief.

That page looks like a scam.

I do have irregular heartbeat at times (tachycardia), though the last episode has been quite a while ago. Do you want to wear your heart rate monitor just when you're exercising or 24 hrs a day? You'll need a very different device, depending.

I'd definitely ask your doctor for advice - your heart isn't something you want to treat according to advice from some random guy on the internet!

SixtaWalthers

No, I need a heartrate monitor when I feel heart palpitation to verify either it is a real big problem or just feeling because of gastric issue etc. But, yes, my mom is also forcing to visit the doctor at once. I need actual medical help. I am not going to ignore it. Maybe next week.