Adverse Possession

CountryRach

Hi,

Myself and my husband were looking to renovate and extend a house which would have been my mothers home house and is on my family's land.

We received planning, and were just about to send out the tenders when our solicitor informed us that the part of the land on which the house is built is actually not registered, which we were not aware of. Perhaps this was our own ignorance, but the house and surrounding land has been in the family for 70+ years so I hadn't thought there would have been any issues. The land has been transferred twice by inheritance over the last 10 years and this was never raised.

The farmland surrounding the house is all registered but the .75 acre on which the house is built is not registered.

We have now been told we will need to apply for adverse possession, and obviously we cannot receive a mortgage until this has been resolved.

Has anyone had any experience with adverse possession in a situation like this and how long it will take. We are wondering whether is worth holding onto this dream or if it will take years.

Also would the planning even be valid now?

Thanks in advance for your assistance, and I hope this is posted in the right area.

mrsWhippy

Very similar situation here - is there any chance you could (or your solicitor) could trace back the title of that .75 acre and see who owned it originally?

We were lucky and managed to trace our site back to a holding company who agreed to transfer the title to us for a nominal donation to charity, but it did take 6+ months to sort this all out. I would try avoid adverse possession if at all possible.

Afaik, your planning is still valid though!

CountryRach

Thanks mrsWhippy - that's a good idea. We will have to do that and see whether we can figure it out! The adverse possession process just seems very time consuming.

It just feels like a kick in the teeth as we have already incurred costs and I feel bad for our architect but what can you do! We will just have to see how it goes I suppose.

Thanks again

fits

It's unbelievable that this was not discovered before now in the probate process. Like how was it even possible to transfer the house without discovering that? I'd be asking serious questions of the solicitor responsible.

Water John

OP, sorry its not clear. You say 'part of the land' your house is on is not registered. But the whole lot, incl farm, was one at one time?

CountryRach

Water John - We had thought it was all one, but apparently the part that is not registered (i.e. 0.75acres on which the house is built which would be in the middle of the surrounding lands) was never part of the surrounding land, for as long as it has been in our family anyway. We need to do some digging to look at the time before this to see if it was "all one" at one stage.

The land not registered is in like a kidney bean shape, which seems unusual.

Apologies if this is unclear.

Fits - that was my thoughts but apparently for transfer purposes (i.e. where there is no sale) this wouldn't have been picked up. We need to get a second opinion on that though.

Water John

Thanks. It should have been picked up on any transfer. What was the Solr tranfering if he didn't have the correct Folio and map?

Yeah best to try to trace it back through a search. What is on the Folio of the farm? Possibly at your Grandfathers time it was one. Find out as much as you can from elderly relatives.

mrsWhippy

fits wrote: »

It's unbelievable that this was not discovered before now in the probate process. Like how was it even possible to transfer the house without discovering that? I'd be asking serious questions of the solicitor responsible.

The exact same thing happened in our situation, despite the site going through a legal transfer, nobody thought to inform a family member (or they didn't notice) that there was no root to the title!! Would have been impossible to sell as it was.

Water John

Solrs due a bollocking, I'd say. And I'm a quiet person, generally. Unacceptably sloppy. Conveyancing solrs are usually pretty meticolous.

dreamer2009

I have seen this happen on many occasions in rural Ireland. There can be any number of reasons for it- in my opinion, many moons ago, it was occasionally used to try circumnavigate paying Capital Acquisition Tax as the new "owner" was never formally registered.

Also, it may be that there is Title Documents to the property but that same are Registry of Deeds rather than Land Registry Title (although in this case there would not be any cause for an adverse possession claim- I only mention it as I have seen other professionals just assume that all rural property is Land Registry and overlook searches in the Registry of Deeds).

I would certainly try to establish if there is any title documents at all to the property and follow the trail from there. A first registration application by Adverse Possession can take 20+ months to get through the LR and they are usually a costly exercise so I would try exhaust other avenues first.

I wouldn't advise it, but you could plough on with the work to the house as long as you accepted the risks associated with that whilst your Title to the property is being dealt with. As i said not advisable and certainly not ideal but it is a discussion for yourselves to have.

mrsWhippy

dreamer2009 wrote: »

I wouldn't advise it, but you could plough on with the work to the house as long as you accepted the risks associated with that whilst your Title to the property is being dealt with. As i said not advisable and certainly not ideal but it is a discussion for yourselves to have.

OP wouldn't be able to secure a mortgage in the interim though.

dreamer2009

mrsWhippy wrote: »

OP wouldn't be able to secure a mortgage in the interim though.

You're right, I should have stated that. I was just assuming that being an old family home, particularly on a farm, that a Mortgage was not being used but that is probably coming from exposure to older farmers who generally dislike mortgaging the farmhouse. I know a lot of younger families have no other option with the costs of construction.

Water John

Excellent advice, Dreamer. There is no quick fix but adverse is a worse option.

CountryRach

dreamer2009 wrote: »

I have seen this happen on many occasions in rural Ireland. There can be any number of reasons for it- in my opinion, many moons ago, it was occasionally used to try circumnavigate paying Capital Acquisition Tax as the new "owner" was never formally registered.

Also, it may be that there is Title Documents to the property but that same are Registry of Deeds rather than Land Registry Title (although in this case there would not be any cause for an adverse possession claim- I only mention it as I have seen other professionals just assume that all rural property is Land Registry and overlook searches in the Registry of Deeds).

I would certainly try to establish if there is any title documents at all to the property and follow the trail from there. A first registration application by Adverse Possession can take 20+ months to get through the LR and they are usually a costly exercise so I would try exhaust other avenues first.

I wouldn't advise it, but you could plough on with the work to the house as long as you accepted the risks associated with that whilst your Title to the property is being dealt with. As i said not advisable and certainly not ideal but it is a discussion for yourselves to have.

Unfortunately, we will require a mortgage as the house needs to be completely renovated.

We are meeting with the solicitor in 2 weeks (he has gone on holidays and didn't think to let us know!), so I will mention the registry of deeds/title to him and see if there is anyway around the adverse possession. To be honest, we thought he held the title/deeds as the firm would historically have dealt with all of my grandfathers business, but unfortunately he doesn't. We will continue to dig deeper and see if we can get anywhere.

Thanks so much for your advice