Turas Nua and BTEA

anon19008

I've been in college 5 years now studying. First year was a FETAC level 5, with the other 4 being a level 8 for my degree, during which I have received BTEA payments. During the last semester of my final year (This January), I spent a number of weeks in hospital because of sudden medical condition, after which I was scheduled for surgery ASAP, which was to occur sometime during the academic year. After discussing this with the college, it was agreed around March that I would defer the semester to January of 08. The college also kindly agreed to defer the payment for the semester too (Susi Grant).

I informed my welfare office of this change and they told me until I was officially deferred, I would have to stay on BTEA because I was still a full time registered student. The deferral was then officially sanctioned around May. So I was then moved back onto JA and informed by the Welfare Office I could reapply for BTEA once I had officially re-accepted a place on the course.

In the mean time I was Informed I would have to engage with Turas Nua about looking for full time work. Which I happily engaged with as the BTEA hadn't been awarded to me yet. Once I was offered the college place and accepted, I informed the welfare office and was told I would have to wait closer to the Semester date to apply but I would be accepted.

My problem is now that if a job is found for me through Turas Nua, I will have to quit the job come December to return to full-time education, but will no longer be entitled to BTEA. I've inquired about finding work experience or to continue looking for part time work, but have been told that as long as I'm with Turas Nua, I can only look for full time or my payment could be suspended. Any job I would find would be minimum wage due to a massive gap on my C.V. and my education background. I cant apply for a grant either due to the grant also being deferred. An option would be to just scrimp and save with a full-time job, and live off those savings from Jan - May, but the closer it gets to December, the more that looks impossible.

I've asked the welfare office themselves is there anything I can do to retain the benefit, considering they've spent €45k on my education to this point and my final year semester 1 average was 75%, meaning I was on track for a 1.1 in Software Development, a field that's currently lacking the needed numbers in this country. All I got was a shrug of the shoulders. The frustrating thing is if I had of failed Semester 1, I would have been award BTEA and returned to college September without any hiccups.

I understand I'm in a grey area due to deferring the semester, and the people on JA are supposed to looking for full time work, but it seems a waste of €45k in funding to me if at the end of it I end up with a minimum wage job. Especially since I have been returning to JA every summer of the last 4 years without any problems. Does anyone know of any precedent in which, regardless of the scenario, I can still avail off the BTEA? Or anyone I can contact higher up to at least plead my case? I've met with 3 different people at the schemes hatch who seem to be lost as to what do to with anyone outside the scope of the normal BTEA applicants.

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read through this, any help or direction would be greatly appreciated. It would be absolutely soul crushing to have to return to the type of work I specifically went back to college to avoid, after 5 years of working my butt off in college.

Bradley Pitt

anon19008 wrote: »

I've been in college 5 years now studying. First year was a FETAC level 5, with the other 4 being a level 8 for my degree, during which I have received BTEA payments. During the last semester of my final year (This January), I spent a number of weeks in hospital because of sudden medical condition, after which I was scheduled for surgery ASAP, which was to occur sometime during the academic year. After discussing this with the college, it was agreed around March that I would defer the semester to January of 08. The college also kindly agreed to defer the payment for the semester too (Susi Grant).

I informed my welfare office of this change and they told me until I was officially deferred, I would have to stay on BTEA because I was still a full time registered student. The deferral was then officially sanctioned around May. So I was then moved back onto JA and informed by the Welfare Office I could reapply for BTEA once I had officially re-accepted a place on the course.

In the mean time I was Informed I would have to engage with Turas Nua about looking for full time work. Which I happily engaged with as the BTEA hadn't been awarded to me yet. Once I was offered the college place and accepted, I informed the welfare office and was told I would have to wait closer to the Semester date to apply but I would be accepted.

My problem is now that if a job is found for me through Turas Nua, I will have to quit the job come December to return to full-time education, but will no longer be entitled to BTEA. I've inquired about finding work experience or to continue looking for part time work, but have been told that as long as I'm with Turas Nua, I can only look for full time or my payment could be suspended. Any job I would find would be minimum wage due to a massive gap on my C.V. and my education background. I cant apply for a grant either due to the grant also being deferred. An option would be to just scrimp and save with a full-time job, and live off those savings from Jan - May, but the closer it gets to December, the more that looks impossible.

I've asked the welfare office themselves is there anything I can do to retain the benefit, considering they've spent €45k on my education to this point and my final year semester 1 average was 75%, meaning I was on track for a 1.1 in Software Development, a field that's currently lacking the needed numbers in this country. All I got was a shrug of the shoulders. The frustrating thing is if I had of failed Semester 1, I would have been award BTEA and returned to college September without any hiccups.

I understand I'm in a grey area due to deferring the semester, and the people on JA are supposed to looking for full time work, but it seems a waste of €45k in funding to me if at the end of it I end up with a minimum wage job. Especially since I have been returning to JA every summer of the last 4 years without any problems. Does anyone know of any precedent in which, regardless of the scenario, I can still avail off the BTEA? Or anyone I can contact higher up to at least plead my case? I've met with 3 different people at the schemes hatch who seem to be lost as to what do to with anyone outside the scope of the normal BTEA applicants.

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read through this, any help or direction would be greatly appreciated. It would be absolutely soul crushing to have to return to the type of work I specifically went back to college to avoid, after 5 years of working my butt off in college.

How have you been since having Surgery, if you have any continued medical condition or are not fit for work yet then you should apply for either illness benifit or disability allowance. If successful you will be transfered on to one of these allowances. Then when it is nearly time to go back to College go to your local welfare officer and apply for Back to Education allowance . Talk to your Doctor and look at your Medical Condition. Then see your local Welfare Officer. I wish you the best with your Medical Condition and your Studies

Bronco Bullfrog

anon19008 wrote: »

I've been in college 5 years now studying. First year was a FETAC level 5, with the other 4 being a level 8 for my degree, during which I have received BTEA payments. During the last semester of my final year (This January), I spent a number of weeks in hospital because of sudden medical condition, after which I was scheduled for surgery ASAP, which was to occur sometime during the academic year. After discussing this with the college, it was agreed around March that I would defer the semester to January of 08. The college also kindly agreed to defer the payment for the semester too (Susi Grant).

I informed my welfare office of this change and they told me until I was officially deferred, I would have to stay on BTEA because I was still a full time registered student. The deferral was then officially sanctioned around May. So I was then moved back onto JA and informed by the Welfare Office I could reapply for BTEA once I had officially re-accepted a place on the course.

In the mean time I was Informed I would have to engage with Turas Nua about looking for full time work. Which I happily engaged with as the BTEA hadn't been awarded to me yet. Once I was offered the college place and accepted, I informed the welfare office and was told I would have to wait closer to the Semester date to apply but I would be accepted.

My problem is now that if a job is found for me through Turas Nua, I will have to quit the job come December to return to full-time education, but will no longer be entitled to BTEA. I've inquired about finding work experience or to continue looking for part time work, but have been told that as long as I'm with Turas Nua, I can only look for full time or my payment could be suspended. Any job I would find would be minimum wage due to a massive gap on my C.V. and my education background. I cant apply for a grant either due to the grant also being deferred. An option would be to just scrimp and save with a full-time job, and live off those savings from Jan - May, but the closer it gets to December, the more that looks impossible.

I've asked the welfare office themselves is there anything I can do to retain the benefit, considering they've spent €45k on my education to this point and my final year semester 1 average was 75%, meaning I was on track for a 1.1 in Software Development, a field that's currently lacking the needed numbers in this country. All I got was a shrug of the shoulders. The frustrating thing is if I had of failed Semester 1, I would have been award BTEA and returned to college September without any hiccups.

I understand I'm in a grey area due to deferring the semester, and the people on JA are supposed to looking for full time work, but it seems a waste of €45k in funding to me if at the end of it I end up with a minimum wage job. Especially since I have been returning to JA every summer of the last 4 years without any problems. Does anyone know of any precedent in which, regardless of the scenario, I can still avail off the BTEA? Or anyone I can contact higher up to at least plead my case? I've met with 3 different people at the schemes hatch who seem to be lost as to what do to with anyone outside the scope of the normal BTEA applicants.

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read through this, any help or direction would be greatly appreciated. It would be absolutely soul crushing to have to return to the type of work I specifically went back to college to avoid, after 5 years of working my butt off in college.

Does your college have an Academic Advisory Office that can act as an intermediary or for advice? I had a major issue with SUSI that my academic advisory office went all the way to the minister of education’s office with and finally got sorted. Anyway that’s another story. How about students union or Citizens Information, or last resort your TD?

Here was my experience with Turas Nua Jobs Path.


I graduated from my primary degree and was unemployed for a year. I registered to do a part time post grad course at my local IT through Springboard (a government initiative to allow unemployed access to education). Shortly after this social welfare put me on the jobs path programme. There are numerous posts on here with people stating they were told by Jobs Path that they could not do any other courses whist on Jobs Path. This is not true. On my first day at Jobs Path I told them I had registered for a Springboard course. My personal advisor told me she did not think I would be allowed to do it. Before meeting my personal advisor we had a presentation from someone from the local social welfare office. During her presentation she advised us that Springboard courses were options for us. So a clear example of the right hand not talking to the left hand under the same roof. For some reason, we were given paper copies of the presentation slides. I showed the Springboard info from the presentation slides to my Personal advisor. That knocked her sideways, Oh..er..um..well..I’ll have to check. Anyway, it eventually turned out that I was allowed to do my course, but because it was part-time I would still have to do Jobs Path. I had to do both, but, The Jobs Path advisor told me if I had chosen a full time course they would have had to exempt me from Jobs Path until I completed the course. There were full-time masters degree courses available. When the course was finished I would then have to go back on Jobs Path. Is that scenario so much different from your situation? You have a place on a full time course in the not so distant future.
Could you not argue that with them? Here’s the rub: How is it that anyone placed on Jobs path who then chooses to undertake a full-time education course run by Springboard can get an automatic deferral from Jobs Path until their Springboard course is completed? Tell them, like the Springboard students you would be happy to return to Jobs path after you’re course is completed when you will in effect be searching for full-time employment and Jobs Path would be of great benefit to you then. Your qualification will enhance your employability. This would be logical; however they don’t always employ logic. It is totally infuriating in your situation that they have put you on Jobs Path. I spent a year on Jobs Path and also did my course. They did not find a job for me. Just bear in mind, because you’re on Jobs Path does not mean they can force an employer to take you on. To be fair, my handlers at Jobs Path told me my priority was to get the qualification. They used their own discretion. They realised a qualification was going to stand to me a lot longer than them just sticking me in a shoe shop job. How are your handlers approaching your situation are they sympathetic? I hope you can use the Springboard students as an argument for your case.
I would love to know the criteria they use for allocating people onto Jobs Path. I know of someone who has been unemployed since 2004 and he has not been put on Jobs Path. The celtic tiger was still alive back then! He is a professional dole claimant with no motivation to work, and I hear now about students who need to complete their courses being put on it and people who are unemployed for three weeks having to go on it. I wish you all the best, hope it works out for you (and no offence to anyone who works in a shoe shop).

artichoke

@Bronco Bullfrog
I would very much love to know their criteria myself. Allegedly people are chosen at random, I question that to be honest. It seems grossly unfair that they refer people onto job path that are already in education and yet your friend who has been unemployed for so long (how did he get away with it?) is somehow left alone. Why do they chose people at random first place? I thought Job path is aimed at the long term unemployed. It doesn't make any sense to me that they chose people who want to continue their education over someone who is a career dole claimant...
Same with people who want to do a CE scheme now are hindered to do one because they are on job path. I know 3 people that have completed job path and have not found work through them. I personally don't think Job Path works.

Bronco Bullfrog

artichoke wrote: »

@Bronco Bullfrog
I would very much love to know their criteria myself. Allegedly people are chosen at random, I question that to be honest. It seems grossly unfair that they refer people onto job path that are already in education and yet your friend who has been unemployed for so long (how did he get away with it?) is somehow left alone. Why do they chose people at random first place? I thought Job path is aimed at the long term unemployed. It doesn't make any sense to me that they chose people who want to continue their education over someone who is a career dole claimant...
Same with people who want to do a CE scheme now are hindered to do one because they are on job path. I know 3 people that have completed job path and have not found work through them. I personally don't think Job Path works.

I totally agree with everything you say in your last message, apart from referring to the Guy who has been unemployed since 2004 as my 'friend' He is a total wasteoid that I ran into on a FETAC course a few years back, I bump into him now and then around the town I live in. He is a mess, has no interest in taking any responsibility for himself whatsoever. Since 2004 all he has been required to do is a couple of FETAC courses, the rest of the time on job seekers. Yes it's amazing how people trying to better themselves through education end up being side-tracked with crap like Jobs Path and total wasters don't have to account for themselves at all.

artichoke

I think it's only a matter of time until he is also referred to job path. Unless he is claiming DA. Sorry I thought he is your friend.

I only ever met one person who openly admitted he doesn't want to work, well not the jobs he doesn't like. Now I could understand if he had worked badly paid and physically demanding jobs in the past and wants to move a step up but he was in his 40ies and had never worked in his life nor was he interested in education. His attitude was that the money is there for the taking. Now what do you say to that? I was speechless, really thought he is winding me up but no, he was serious!

Now he is an exception, as I said he was the only one I knew who prefers a lifestyle on the dole. Anyone else unemployed I know of wants to work! I do think some people do need a push though as the longer they are out of work the less motivation is there to get back into work. Some get used to do nothing and the money makes them lazy. But I do not agree with bringing in private companies like Seetec who have already a bad reputation in the UK.

Bronco Bullfrog

Yes there are some people with appalling attitudes. As long as they are looked after that's all they care about. The fact that their money comes from other peoples taxes does not bother them in the slightest. The welfare system here is very generous compared to other countries. E.g. UK they get only about half the amount of payment that we receive and they have to sign on every week, and every time they sign they must show proof of their efforts to find work or they will not receive a payment, also no holidays are allowed for welfare claimants in UK. We are allowed two weeks holiday and there is also a Christmas Bonus paid here! This is unheard of elsewhere.
Unfortunately, some people do not appreciate the humane system that is here and choose to abuse it, and make it a way of life. The guy I know has only been required since 2004 to do a FETAC course and nothing else. He told me SW sent him to a CE scheme interview with a charity, but he never heard back from them about the CE scheme, no-one ever called him back about it!! Every now and then SW send him a form to fill in to prove he his looking for work, he applies for 6 or 7 jobs and sends it back to them. Then they leave him alone. Once he told me he actually got invited to an interview for a job in a warehouse, he reluctantly went. At the interview he told them he has a bad back, so no job offer. I asked him is he on any medication for his back or does he attend a doctor because of it? No he said. Total scam merchant. SW should really be asking questions of people who are on job-seekers for that amount of time. If they are not engaged in education, training or employment of any kind, then questions should be asked, not just forking out payments to them year after year.

artichoke

Lol..., the guy I was telling you about was from the UK. No surprise he moved over here! The Irish social welfare system is very generous compared to the UK. On the other hand side I don't like how people on benefits in the UK are made to suffer sanctions when they just 5 minutes late for their appointment or have to resolve to go to food banks. The movie "I, Daniel Blake" springs to mind. It is a tough watch. I don't like how unemployed people get mistreated over there, some who have worked all their life, got made redundant and then have to suffer the bullying of job center staff who have no social skills and lack empathy. It's awful and I do not want Ireland go down the same road, yet I find there should be more incentives offered to help people here getting back to employment and away from welfare dependency. Sanctions only cause psychological stress and anxiety. This does not help people who have already low confidence due to long term unemployment. I find people should be able to attend a CE scheme even when on they are on Job Path. Why not, they can still attend job path, i don't see the problem. I find the government should change this arrangement.

The concept of holidays for unemployed, I find that strange too. Why getting holidays when you are already having the free time? And the Christmas Bonus, I have never heard about this before either. This doesn't exist in other countries, that must be an Irish thing. I remember people moaning after it was taken away from them during recession. I have never received any christmas bonus where I worked. When I was volunteering in a charity shop I had people coming in giving me sob stories how they can't afford paying their electricity bill and how they are not getting enough social welfare payments blah blah...but when I passed by a cafe during a break I saw the same people having lunch and coffee. So there goes the money needed for the electricity bill.

Friend of mine works as a receptionist in a big company. She regularly has people coming in with that SW form asking her to sign it for them to prove they are looking for work but not asking her for vacancies. Or they hand in a cv without stating what position they are applying for and no cover letter. Sometimes it did happen that she had a job vacancy for the ones who came in with the SW form and when the were told about it they came out with all kind of excuses, job/hours not suitable, back problems, illness,....few confessed they just want her signature but not the job. I also know someone who applied for DA for his "bad back". Needless to say he didn't have any back problems....

anon19008

Hey Guys, cheers for all the replies, just a follow up here on the situation, because it might be handy for those who are ever in a similar situation! It turns out I can return to work and keep my BTEA come January, with the option of keeping the Job part-time (if I find such a job that can accommodate that) or quit straight out. Apparently one can work full time during the summer months between college years and keep their BTEA payment once the semester starts up again.

The thinking/loophole in my case seems to be that because I never deregistered from college, only deferred, I am still enrolled as a full time student, and thus the gap from January past to January coming is treated the same as the gap in the summer months between years of college. Apparently students are allowed to work full time in an academic year and still keep their payments, but for more than 12 months. I'd imagine this is to accommodate people on work experience?

The problem arose from the people working in the social welfare department seemingly not being aware of the particulars of the BTEA scheme. It was just by happenstance that I managed to speak to a more senior person at the hatch. I've actually found the turas nua crowd to be very good. The person assigned to help me has been very accommodating to my circumstances and even put me on to a few connections they had in the tech industry to try get me some work exp for the 4 months to January, which would be of no benefit to them, due to me quitting in December.

artichoke

Congrats Anon, happy it worked out for you The Turas Nua crowd is not all that bad but it does depend on the person behind the desk, same with SW. I think Seetec is more strict reading from the posts on here. Best wishes.

@Broncobullfrog
Regarding lack of communication between SW offices I got a letter today in the post from SW headquarter "asking" me to attend an interview with Tús. Had to laugh about this as they were the ones referring me to Turas Nua. It's a sad affair....

I would love to call them and ask if they can make up their mind....? :-)

Bronco Bullfrog

Well Done Anon19008 Glad it worked out for you.

"The problem arose from the people working in the social welfare department seemingly not being aware of the particulars of the BTEA scheme"

Someone at DSP not knowing their job? Now that is surprising I must say!

They told me once that I did not qualify for the winter fuel allowance, then someone phoned me a week later and demanded to know why I had not applied for the fuel allowance!! Did I mention earlier the right hand not talking to the left hand...I rest my case.
Nearly as bad as SUSI awarding me a post-grad grant. (I had not graduated at that stage) then they refused me a grant altogether....
I got the fuel allowance and the grant... eventually! I was entitled to both but had to deal with so much incompetence. Will it ever end....