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Leaving Certificate advice for a foreign student

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  • 12-08-2017 4:31pm
    #1
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    Hello, I am an Italian student and I'm planning to take the Leaving Certificate in 2017/2018 as an external candidate. I did some research and I know how to apply and stuff but I'm still looking for a school (possibly in Dublin) and I have doubts on how do external candidates do laboratory work for science subjects (like physics), I e-mailed SEC through the contact form but they didn't give me much information. Also I was thinking to take English, Math, History, Geography, Physics, Italian and maybe Art as subjects.. Do you have any suggestions/ advices? I don't think I'll have problems learning in English but I don't really know well how does the Irish school system works. Thanks in advance.


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    #2
    dorado99
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭dorado99


    If you don't mind me asking how old are you? Also, you can take more than one foreign language,so would you have a good understanding of the Spanish language for instance? If you know Spanish to some degree I recommend checking examinations.ie past paper archive to see if you're able to take an exam. That would relieve some pressure and will make it easier to focus on other subjects


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    #3
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    No problem! I'm 19 and I don't speak spanish but I studied French and German so maybe I could take one of those


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    #4
    Wexfordboy89
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Wexfordboy89


    What the reason you want to take the leaving cert?are you olanning on going to college in Ireland after it


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    #5
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Yes, I'm planning to go to college in Ireland and I decided it's best for me to directly take the leaving certificate.


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    #6
    Wexfordboy89
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Wexfordboy89


    ilarien wrote: »
    Yes, I'm planning to go to college in Ireland and I decided it's best for me to directly take the leaving certificate.

    Ok awesome can you not go to an irish coolege right now?your english seems very good but one thing i would recommend is grinds for subjects you might find a bit hard.grinds are basically get a tutor after school for an hr or 2 in a certain subject to help you with it.


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    #7
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Yeah sure I'm planning to go to college after the leaving certificate. I'll look for tutors, I found some courses to prepare external candidates for the lc, but the thing I'm not really sure about is to how to do certified lab work. Thanks for the tip anyway!


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    #8
    Wexfordboy89
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Wexfordboy89


    ilarien wrote: »
    Yeah sure I'm planning to go to college after the leaving certificate. I'll look for tutors, I found some courses to prepare external candidates for the lc, but the thing I'm not really sure about is to how to do certified lab work. Thanks for the tip anyway!

    As for the lab work if you are going to be taking classes in a school maybe ask the principal of the school if you can take that part of your course there im sure they will allow you


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    #9
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Wexfordboy89 wrote: »
    ilarien wrote: »
    Yeah sure I'm planning to go to college after the leaving certificate. I'll look for tutors, I found some courses to prepare external candidates for the lc, but the thing I'm not really sure about is to how to do certified lab work. Thanks for the tip anyway!

    As for the lab work if you are going to be taking classes in a school maybe ask the principal of the school if you can take that part of your course there im sure they will allow you
    Oh, I will eventually, thanks!


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    #10
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    A willing principal will allow you to do man work at their school and sign off on it.
    Contact as many as you can sooner rather than later. Good luck


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    #11
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    A willing principal will allow you to do man work at their school and sign off on it.
    Contact as many as you can sooner rather than later. Good luck
    Nice! I'll contact some schools in the next few days, hope it'll work out, thank you!


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    #12
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Physics/chem and bio have no practicals that have to actually be completed to get marks. you will b tested on them but you can find them all on YouTube.


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    #13
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Physics/chem and bio have no practicals that have to actually be completed to get marks. you will b tested on them but you can find them all on YouTube.
    Oh, I thought you needed certified lab work based off what I read, but thank you, I'll def look for more informations about that.


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    #14
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    OP, have you read this information from the SEC?

    https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-CA-46254774.pdf

    Finding a school to sit the LC as an external candidate is the easy part. The difficulty is going to be in fulfilling the requirements for Field work in Geography, Coursework (Essay) in History and Lab work in Physics. The History and Geography have to signed off by a school principal and obviously they can't do that unless you have been taught in that school.

    If you were in a position to enrol full-time in a school the Irish LC is a two year course so the material would not all be covered in one year.

    I don't think your plan is very practical unfortunately. Have you sat a final exam equivalent to the Leaving Cert in Italy? If not the International Baccalaureate might be a better choice at this stage but not sure if you can study for it on your own .

    Also, are you familiar with the rules re 3rd Level Fees? If you are an EU citizen you are entitled to be treated the same as an Irish student but there are residence requirements. I think you need to be living here for 3 of the 5 years before you start in order to qualify for "Free" fees but that's something else you need to check out. Good luck!


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    #15
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Thank you very much for your reply, I did not sit a final exam here in Italy unfortunately and Geography, History and Physics are in fact the subjects I was most worried about. Since the geography and history coursework need to be signed off by the Principal, do you think it's possible to maybe take French and Art instead? I already read the SEC info you sent, I know that Art has some coursework requirements too, do that need to be signed off by the Principal too? I found some schools that do lab work courses for Physics eventually, so that could be a possibility.


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    #16
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    ilarien wrote: »
    Oh, I thought you needed certified lab work based off what I read, but thank you, I'll def look for more informations about that.

    No certification needed for phys/chem or bio. You could miss every lab class for 2 years turn up and still get a H1 so long as you learn off the "mandatory" experiments.


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    #17
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    Not sure re Art but if it's not mentioned in the SEC book it should be ok but of course you need to have a talent for Art as it's not just learning stuff off! Part of the course is History of Art which for an Italian should be a doddle but the major part is painting/drawing! Subjects without coursework that needs to be validated are obviously a better choice for you but you need to think too about what you want to study at 3rd Level as some courses require specific L C subjects. If it's a general Arts course (BA) you want you should be ok. You need to consider too whether you want to take all subjects at Higher Level. H L English would be very challenging in one year for any student but especially for one whose first language is not English. The NCCA website has information on the curriculum for the various subjects or of course the exam papers and marking schemes on examinations.ie give a quicker idea of what is examined for each subject. If I were you I'd look up college entry requirements for the courses that interest you to make sure you include any required subjects.


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    #18
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    ilarien wrote: »
    Oh, I thought you needed certified lab work based off what I read, but thank you, I'll def look for more informations about that.

    No certification needed for phys/chem or bio. You could miss every lab class for 2 years turn up and still get a H1 so long as you learn off the "mandatory" experiments.

    That's great! If that's truly possible, thanks!
    Corca Baiscinn wrote: »
    Not sure re Art but if it's not mentioned in the SEC book it should be ok but of course you need to have a talent for Art as it's not just learning stuff off! Part of the course is History of Art which for an Italian should be a doddle but the major part is painting/drawing! Subjects without coursework that needs to be validated are obviously a better choice for you but you need to think too about what you want to study at 3rd Level as some courses require specific L C subjects. If it's a general Arts course (BA) you want you should be ok. You need to consider too whether you want to take all subjects at Higher Level. H L English would be very challenging in one year for any student but especially for one whose first language is not English. The NCCA website has information on the curriculum for the various subjects or of course the exam papers and marking schemes on examinations.ie give a quicker idea of what is examined for each subject. If I were you I'd look up college entry requirements for the courses that interest you to make sure you include any required subjects.

    I already checked all the entry requirements for the courses I'm interested in and I definitely need math and physics since it's a science course, about Art I do draw and paint so that could be possible then, I studied history of art for years so that is not a problem, in the end I just need to find the right subjects to take for the LC, I hope to be able to take the subjects at HL but I'll see, thank you so much for your help!


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    #19
    Wexfordboy89
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Wexfordboy89


    ilarien wrote: »
    I already checked all the entry requirements for the courses I'm interested in and I definitely need math and physics since it's a science course, about Art I do draw and paint so that could be possible then, I studied history of art for years so that is not a problem, in the end I just need to find the right subjects to take for the LC, I hope to be able to take the subjects at HL but I'll see, thank you so much for your help!
    I think u need 6 subjects english and maths are two u definitely need not sure if u have to do any others its 10 years since i done mine lol


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    #20
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    ilarien wrote: »
    That's great! If that's truly possible, thanks.

    It better be possible, otherwise the 100,000 or so LC students who did phys/chem or bio over the last 30 yrs are in a bit of trouble. Lol


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    #21
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Wexfordboy89 wrote: »
    ilarien wrote: »
    I already checked all the entry requirements for the courses I'm interested in and I definitely need math and physics since it's a science course, about Art I do draw and paint so that could be possible then, I studied history of art for years so that is not a problem, in the end I just need to find the right subjects to take for the LC, I hope to be able to take the subjects at HL but I'll see, thank you so much for your help!
    I think u need 6 subjects english and maths are two u definitely need not sure if u have to do any others its 10 years since i done mine lol

    Yes I need 6 subjects and english and math are mandatory!


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    #22
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    ilarien wrote: »
    History and Physics are in fact the subjects I was most worried about.
    Apart from difficulties re: the History Project, History in LC will require a decent knowledge of certain periods of Irish history which may (?) be very new to you, and perhaps not so accessible without being in a school setting with teacher support.

    Now if you adore history, and can get a few grinds, I'm not saying it can't be done ... but it's one to have a long think about.

    A second language might be a lot easier tbh.


    If you studied history of art for years, and draw / paint, you should really try to take art; I'm sure there are schools who take repeat students who might allow you to do coursework there, or places which offer Art as a subject on Saturday or whatever for students who want to take it but it's not available in their school (though that may be pricey).

    So at the moment you're probably looking at

    English
    Maths
    Physics
    Italian
    Art (?)
    A second language (?)

    Do you feel comfortable with 6, or feel the need of a 7th?

    There's pros and cons ... a 7th guards you against one going really badly, but on the other hand concentrating on 6 means you have more time for each.


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    #23
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    ilarien wrote: »
    History and Physics are in fact the subjects I was most worried about.
    Apart from difficulties re: the History Project, History in LC will require a decent knowledge of certain periods of Irish history which may (?) be very new to you, and perhaps not so accessible without being in a school setting with teacher support.

    Now if you adore history, and can get a few grinds, I'm not saying it can't be done ... but it's one to have a long think about.

    A second language might be a lot easier tbh.


    If you studied history of art for years, and draw / paint, you should really try to take art; I'm sure there are schools who take repeat students who might allow you to do coursework there, or places which offer Art as a subject on Saturday or whatever for students who want to take it but it's not available in their school (though that may be pricey).

    So at the moment you're probably looking at

    English
    Maths
    Physics
    Italian
    Art (?)
    A second language (?)

    Do you feel comfortable with 6, or feel the need of a 7th?

    There's pros and cons ... a 7th guards you against one going really badly, but on the other hand concentrating on 6 means you have more time for each.

    I thought about the subjects today and I'm pretty sure I wont take History because it's doable as you said but might be a bit too problematic I'd rather take a second language, like french, and If possible definitely Art.
    I think i'd be more comfortable with 7 subjects but at this point I don't know which one I could take that doesn't require any specific coursework except for other languages maybe, but I don't think that'll be a problem, math and physics are the most important ones I think for what I mean to study next and maybe it's better if I concentrate on doing well in 6 subjects , which will probably be
    English
    Math
    Physics
    French
    Italian and
    Art


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    #24
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Thank you all for your suggestions, you've been really helpful!


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    #25
    Bazinga_N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    My good friend joined my school in 6th year (the final school year in which you do your Leaving Cert). She's Italian and managed to do the Leavint cert in one year and scored quite well. So it's definitely possible for you too!

    My advice would be to look at plc and further education colleges in Dublin to see if they have courses for the leaving cert. They'll do the course in a year and they'll have qualified teachers who can sign off on your geography and history work. An advantage to this is that you'll have other people in your course who aren't typical students, e.g. Adults going back to school after a number of years, etc. so you'll all be on the same level in terms of being unfamiliar with the leaving cert.

    In terms of subjects, I'd definitely recommend you taking another language. Generally speaking, I've noticed European students learn their second/third languages to a much higher standard than we do. I don't know what it is (and obviously this is generalisation) but I've met so many Spanish and Italian students who've been studying French for less years than I (and my classmates) have and they've been considerably more fluent. Take a look at the papers at www.examinations.ie and go to the past exam material archive to access a past paper and see if you think you'd be able for it.

    With the Physics you technically need to have them done but they can't really prove that you didn't do them. They sometimes supposedly do checks on some students but I don't think it's common at all. Just watch videos of the experiments on YouTube and write up a lap report of them with some results from the videos and you'll be fine.

    I'd also really recommend taking 7 subjects. Yes you can only count six for your points but it's so easy for one of your exams to just go wrong on the day. If you've only six, you've no back up at all and it's very risky.

    Honestly though, you should definitely be well able to do the Leaving Cert. There's lots of resources and help available online which you can make use of. Best of luck with it!


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    #26
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    Bazinga_N wrote: »
    My good friend joined my school in 6th year (the final school year in which you do your Leaving Cert). She's Italian and managed to do the Leavint cert in one year and scored quite well. So it's definitely possible for you too!

    My advice would be to look at plc and further education colleges in Dublin to see if they have courses for the leaving cert. They'll do the course in a year and they'll have qualified teachers who can sign off on your geography and history work. An advantage to this is that you'll have other people in your course who aren't typical students, e.g. Adults going back to school after a number of years, etc. so you'll all be on the same level in terms of being unfamiliar with the leaving cert.

    In terms of subjects, I'd definitely recommend you taking another language. Generally speaking, I've noticed European students learn their second/third languages to a much higher standard than we do. I don't know what it is (and obviously this is generalisation) but I've met so many Spanish and Italian students who've been studying French for less years than I (and my classmates) have and they've been considerably more fluent. Take a look at the papers at www.examinations.ie and go to the past exam material archive to access a past paper and see if you think you'd be able for it.

    With the Physics you technically need to have them done but they can't really prove that you didn't do them. They sometimes supposedly do checks on some students but I don't think it's common at all. Just watch videos of the experiments on YouTube and write up a lap report of them with some results from the videos and you'll be fine.

    I'd also really recommend taking 7 subjects. Yes you can only count six for your points but it's so easy for one of your exams to just go wrong on the day. If you've only six, you've no back up at all and it's very risky.

    Honestly though, you should definitely be well able to do the Leaving Cert. There's lots of resources and help available online which you can make use of. Best of luck with it!

    That's really interesting, I found some courses and I'll probably apply for those, thank you so much!


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    #27
    hasdanta
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭hasdanta


    For the experiments in physics just know diagrams of the experiments, how it is carried out, the results, why certain measures are carried out and how to do any calculations. Do not waste your time writing up the lab reports - it is a myth that SEC check your lab reports.


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    #28
    ilarien
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ilarien


    hasdanta wrote: »
    For the experiments in physics just know diagrams of the experiments, how it is carried out, the results, why certain measures are carried out and how to do any calculations. Do not waste your time writing up the lab reports - it is a myth that SEC check your lab reports.
    I will! I did some lab work here in Italy too so maybe I already know some experiments then. Thank you!


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