How long are planning extensions

RockBadger

Hi. Ill keep this as straightforward as possible. A site in our area received planning permission in 2004 for a bungalow. Planning ran out after 5 years but foundations had been laid. The house has just been completed in the last month or so. Is this legal?

sydthebeat

RockBadger wrote: »

Hi. Ill keep this as straightforward as possible. A site in our area received planning permission in 2004 for a bungalow. Planning ran out after 5 years but foundations had been laid. The house has just been completed in the last month or so. Is this legal?

Depends on different things.

What stage was block work at different times.

You can an for an extension of duration to complete even after a first extension of 5 years.

So the longest you can possibly stretch a planning application is 15 years from date of grant..... I think.

RockBadger

From the time of planning granted (2004) to earlier this year, just a flat base, no protruding block work.Actually a few years back entire area was covered with sand and used for horses to canter around or something?

sydthebeat

RockBadger wrote: »

From the time of planning granted (2004) to earlier this year, just a flat base, no protruding block work.Actually a few years back entire area was covered with sand and used for horses to canter around or something?

OK, so here's a scenario.

Work began in 2004 and the floor slab was installed. Work stopped and it was decided to apply for an extension of duration. They realised at the time that, as work had commenced, they could only apply for permission to complete, so they decide to hide the work and apply for a full extension of five years.
Come the end of the new five years ie 10 years later, they expose the work and get the block work complete. They then apply for an extension of duration to complete, saying they'd need about 3 years....
Mid 2017 they finish the build.

Is that a possibility?

RockBadger

There has been no blockwork, only the flat base for Id say 13 years! Block work started early this year/ late last year.

sydthebeat

RockBadger wrote: »

There has been no blockwork, only the flat base for Id say 13 years! Block work started early this year/ late last year.

How many planning applications in the site?

RockBadger

There are no planning applications bar the original one in 2003. If there were extension of durations would they not appear with the other documentation for the planning ref. no?

sydthebeat

RockBadger wrote: »

There are no planning applications bar the original one in 2003. If there were extension of durations would they not appear with the other documentation for the planning ref. no?

They would yes.

Everything is pointing towards an unauthorised build.

Question is, is it worth pursuing.

RockBadger

Well it kinda is because the entire plan for the house has changed-its no longer a bungalow but a dormer type bungalow, half as big again, moved some 10+ metres down the site and turned at 90 degrees to original drawing ( to avail of the view I imagine). Oh, and a garage roughly half the size of the house!

sydthebeat

RockBadger wrote: »

Well it kinda is because the entire plan for the house has changed-its no longer a bungalow but a dormer type bungalow, half as big again, moved some 10+ metres down the site and turned at 90 degrees to original drawing ( to avail of the view I imagine). Oh, and a garage roughly half the size of the house!

!! You should have said this at the start.

If this new work is so far away from the original footprint then all the previous posts are meaningless.

If there is no planning permission for this new work, then that is a MAJOR breach of planning regulations and you should notify the council if you are impacted in any way.

RockBadger

Sorry I went the long way about it! To tell the truth it doesnt really impact any of us apart from being p****d off about the arrogance of it. I had to abide by rules so why did these people not? Funny thing is, no one would have objected??

ps. I did kinda ask this question more directly on the planning sticky thread a couple of days ago but didnt get any replies. Thanks for clearing all this up.

RockBadger

sydthebeat wrote: »

!! You should have said this at the start.

If this new work is so far away from the original footprint then all the previous posts are meaningless.

If there is no planning permission for this new work, then that is a MAJOR breach of planning regulations and you should notify the council if you are impacted in any way.

Can you tell me what would realistically be the outcome here if I contact the council. The other neighbours I've mentioned this to basically say they will just apply for retention and that will be that?

Gumbo

RockBadger wrote: »

Can you tell me what would realistically be the outcome here if I contact the council. The other neighbours I've mentioned this to basically say they will just apply for retention and that will be that?

Enforcement warning letter issued to home owner
Enforcement inspector site visit
The home owner will have to regularise the planning breech or return it to what has planning. This will allow for a retention application to be made.

RockBadger

Sorry but this is the point of this thread.......there is no planning permission. Can retention still be sought?

Your post makes little sense.

You have asked, for planning, if the slab was built in 2004 and is only now being built upon? - No, if this was the case and no extension was sought the planning application has lapsed. Unless it falls under the "planning exemption" this is not a legally allowed building or annex.

In regards your other post, that the house was moved from plans, orientation, size and location. No, this is not a legal building also, it was not the same size, shape, location or anything else of the plans. it is like you just built a random house in the plot.

as to your other posts, what do you want to do with this information. if it is your house and has been up and running for a while you can apply for an exemption as the house is up for a period of time with no issues.

if its a neighbors house and you are looking to use this as leverage, we you have it. ideally you should have said something during the build, if it is still on going, but from your little information above it would seem the build is not legal.

RockBadger

Ok. Sorry if info is a little sketchy. To be honest I guess I'm a little anxious the "neighbours" in question may be viewing all this, but to hell, Im not at fault here.
1) Neighbours sold their original house along with a plot of land to new neighbours who moved in last November.
2) Neighbours then built this Dormer bungalow in the last few months on an adjacent site to which planning had been granted back in 2004.
As I've said, there is no mention of extension of duration anywhere in the original planning ref. nor any planning ref. online for this new modification of the building.
3) New neighbours (please bear with me:) ) now have applied for planning to build a similar large dormer type house and garage, in a little field practically on top of my parents house. This house is for the new neighbours parents to live in. As Ive said they only moved here last November.

4) As I was looking up the planning ref. for this proposed new build online, only then did I notice no planning ref. for the first neighbours build( apart from the 2004 planning). Then it started to dawn on me as to why no white site notice ever went up. To be honest Id probably never have copped onto all this until I started researching the proposed new build. Hope this helps.

RockBadger

RockBadger wrote: »

Ok. Sorry if info is a little sketchy. To be honest I guess I'm a little anxious the "neighbours" in question may be viewing all this, but to hell, Im not at fault here.
1) Neighbours sold their original house along with a plot of land to new neighbours who moved in last November.
2) Neighbours then built this Dormer bungalow in the last few months on an adjacent site to which planning had been granted back in 2004.
As I've said, there is no mention of extension of duration anywhere in the original planning ref. nor any planning ref. online for this new modification of the building.
3) New neighbours (please bear with me:) ) now have applied for planning to build a similar large dormer type house and garage, in a little field practically on top of my parents house. This house is for the new neighbours parents to live in. As Ive said they only moved here last November.

4) As I was looking up the planning ref. for this proposed new build online, only then did I notice no planning ref. for the first neighbours build( apart from the 2004 planning). Then it started to dawn on me as to why no white site notice ever went up. To be honest Id probably never have copped onto all this until I started researching the proposed new build. Hope this helps.

So, if I am to understand,

On your neighbors plot of land.

Currently there is one house in existence. This has been built prior to 2004 at some point.

This house ( house A) had applied for planning in 2004 for a new house/extension ( house which had slab poured in 2004 but no works above ground since.

House B is now not only built, but is bigger, in a different location, angle and has a garage attached?

The neighbor is now looking at building House C also.

As far as your aware, house B had only initial plans done in 2004 and nothing since, and now there are new plans lodged for house C which are designed to look like house B?

RockBadger

Sorry Im muddling things!
One house at the moment house A. This is the house which had the slab poured back 2004 but just finished now. Again, no mention of extension of duration or new planning modifications on the original planning ref.

Now different neighbour who lives in " mister house A's " original house, wants to build a similar type dwelling literally 100 yards away.

RockBadger

RockBadger wrote: »

Sorry Im muddling things!
One house at the moment house A. This is the house which had the slab poured back 2004 but just finished now. Again, no mention of extension of duration or new planning modifications on the original planning ref.

Now different neighbour who lives in " mister house A's " original house, wants to build a similar type dwelling literally 100 yards away.

Ah the joy of typing things out!!!

Yes, i get you now. basically it was a green site, but the slab was poured for house A, so up until now you have had a level site which has had the foundation and slab for a house, but nothing else.

now in the last year you have seen a house, larger and different with a garage built on this and now the plans have been lodged to make a second, separate house.

In general the planning would have to been updated and extend for house A, so first and foremost double check this was not done. They might have added this to the plans or bought the site based on updated plans.
In regards to this if they have not, you can contact the council who are within their right to have the house converted back to original design, or if they feel it needed, to have the house removed. having this done is very unlikely.

More often the new owners will say they bought the site in good faith that they could build and apply for retention permission. Unless you and other neighbors can show why they should not get this chances are they will and just pay fines or similar.
In regards the new house, if you feel this is too close to your parents house or doesn't fit i the area, you can contest the planning. you could, if you wished to be clever . contest on the ground that this planning does not cover 2.no dwellings on the property and ask why one was built prior to the planning application. just saying.

RockBadger

Ok, you're almost with me! This will finally clear all up! I will use makey uppy names!

Mr. Murphy sold his house of around 17 years and some land, to Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Murphy( on an adjacent site which is his) had applied for and received planning permission back in 2004 for a small bungalow only. However, 2! seperate slabs were poured and not in accordance with plans- size, location,orientation.

Mr. Murphy finally completes this build lately, has just moved in and I have double/ treble checked all letters, documentation- no extension of duration or modifications to building. Last letters are planning reports granting planning conditions in accordance with their "conditions".

Mr. Kelly has lived in Mr. Murphys original house since last November and now wishes to build a house similar to Mr. Murphys, for his parents in a separate, little field he purchased from Mr. Murphy.

Our family have made submissions/observations to the council concerned about two such builds going up in such a small rural area in such a small timeframe.
Hope this all finally makes sense?

sydthebeat

RockBadger wrote: »

Ok, you're almost with me! This will finally clear all up! I will use makey uppy names!

Mr. Murphy sold his house of around 17 years and some land, to Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Murphy( on an adjacent site which is his) had applied for and received planning permission back in 2004 for a small bungalow only. However, 2! seperate slabs were poured and not in accordance with plans- size, location,orientation.

Mr. Murphy finally completes this build lately, has just moved in and I have double/ treble checked all letters, documentation- no extension of duration or modifications to building. Last letters are planning reports granting planning conditions in accordance with their "conditions".

Mr. Kelly has lived in Mr. Murphys original house since last November and now wishes to build a house similar to Mr. Murphys, for his parents in a separate, little field he purchased from Mr. Murphy.

Our family have made submissions/observations to the council concerned about two such builds going up in such a small rural area in such a small timeframe.
Hope this all finally makes sense?

this is your first mention of 2 slabs....
and your saying both were poured in 2004

to be honest, you have struggled to explain the situation correctly so perhaps you have also failed to do your planning searches correctly.

if you have an issue, report it.

the council are legally obliged to act upon it.

if there is no unauthorised development they will let you know.

Gumbo

RockBadger wrote: »

Sorry but this is the point of this thread.......there is no planning permission. Can retention still be sought?

And that was the point of my post. Yes the home owner can apply for retention. He will have to meet all the required housing development standards and also waste treatment etc

mikeymouse

RockBadger wrote: »

Ok, you're almost with me! This will finally clear all up! I will use makey uppy names!

Mr. Murphy sold his house of around 17 years and some land, to Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Murphy( on an adjacent site which is his) had applied for and received planning permission back in 2004 for a small bungalow only. However, 2! seperate slabs were poured and not in accordance with plans- size, location,orientation.

Mr. Murphy finally completes this build lately, has just moved in and I have double/ treble checked all letters, documentation- no extension of duration or modifications to building. Last letters are planning reports granting planning conditions in accordance with their "conditions".

Mr. Kelly has lived in Mr. Murphys original house since last November and now wishes to build a house similar to Mr. Murphys, for his parents in a separate, little field he purchased from Mr. Murphy.

Our family have made submissions/observations to the council concerned about two such builds going up in such a small rural area in such a small timeframe.
Hope this all finally makes sense?

Time to stop digging now badger, your set is deep enough.

RockBadger

sydthebeat wrote: »

this is your first mention of 2 slabs....
and your saying both were poured in 2004

to be honest, you have struggled to explain the situation correctly so perhaps you have also failed to do your planning searches correctly.

if you have an issue, report it.

the council are legally obliged to act upon it.

if there is no unauthorised development they will let you know.

Yes I have struggled to explain the situation correctly which is why I decided to use the whole Mr. Murphy/ Mr. Kelly scenario. I should have done this from the beginning and avoided wasting everyones time. Sorry to all involved.
As to having failed to do the planning searches correctly? Trust me, every letter /drawing/receipt....everything that was submitted has been cross examined 110% and then again!
As regards the second slab, I have stated all along there was a garage but I must have not stated this garage is a seperate building. Sorry for that.
I do have an issue and I will report it. Thanks all.

RockBadger

mikeymouse wrote: »

Time to stop digging now badger, your set is deep enough.

Ahem, we live in 'setts' mikey.

RockBadger

RockBadger wrote: »

Yes I have struggled to explain the situation correctly which is why I decided to use the whole Mr. Murphy/ Mr. Kelly scenario. I should have done this from the beginning and avoided wasting everyones time. Sorry to all involved.
As to having failed to do the planning searches correctly? Trust me, every letter /drawing/receipt....everything that was submitted has been cross examined 110% and then again!
As regards the second slab, I have stated all along there was a garage but I must have not stated this garage is a seperate building. Sorry for that.
I do have an issue and I will report it. Thanks all.

Hi,
No you had said all along there was only 1 slab poured, a garage, by its nature may not need a slab, a normal strip foundation will cover it, but if they ignore planning then why not build a garage.

so are there now two families involved or what? If Mr. Murphy sold the land, how is he now able to build on it?

RockBadger

Hi. The slab for the garage is half the size of the house slab or a bit smaller. I would have just assumed a garage requires the same type of foundation. Whats a strip foundation btw?
Oh Mr. Murphy sold some of the land, roughly half, he built on the remaining bit (with the slabs).
Yes the "Kellys" are now seeking planning for a similar structure with garage in a field they purchased from Mr. Murphy.

RockBadger

RockBadger wrote: »

Hi. The slab for the garage is half the size of the house slab or a bit smaller. I would have just assumed a garage requires the same type of foundation. Whats a strip foundation btw?
Oh Mr. Murphy sold some of the land, roughly half, he built on the remaining bit (with the slabs).
Yes the "Kellys" are now seeking planning for a similar structure with garage in a field they purchased from Mr. Murphy.

A strip foundation is for smaller structures or structures in god ground conditions, it basically runs where the walls run.

In any case, planning has run out it would seem so you could make a case to the council.
The planning on the other house on the other site could be contested also, it just depends on if you want two separate neighbors who apparently live close to you having issues with you.

RockBadger

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

A strip foundation is for smaller structures or structures in god ground conditions, it basically runs where the walls run.

In any case, planning has run out it would seem so you could make a case to the council.
The planning on the other house on the other site could be contested also, it just depends on if you want two separate neighbors who apparently live close to you having issues with you.

The reason Im posting in the first place is I have issues, as do 5 other parties, who have already contested this other planning application. I definitely dont want anyone having issues with me, who in the right mind would?

mikeymouse

From another thread

Hi. It actually has to do with a right of way. Behind us we own 13 acres of private woodland. Separating us and neighbours property is (was!) a right of way leading from the road to this woodland. A good few years before we moved in here my wife's uncle became ill and wasn't around for quite some time. In that time the right of way had gradually been fenced/hedged from the roadside and planted up with shrubbery within. We were informed by our neighbour shortly before we moved in that if we wanted it we would have to buy it! And to make matters worse all documentation relating to it was unfortunately lost in a fire! Problem was it was never registered to begin with and I'm just trying out my options here to see if it was ever on any of either our house plans or the neighbours plans. Thanks for any help.

Is this Kelly or Murphy in your makey uppy scenario?

RockBadger

mikeymouse wrote: »

From another thread


Is this Kelly or Murphy in your makey uppy scenario?

Yeah from another thread last month, completely different issue which has to do with my house.

This here thread relates to my parents house if you only read it correctly. But sure aint that what trolling is all about! Said thread has also run its course. Time to move along now Mr. Troll.

RockBadger

RockBadger wrote: »

Yeah from another thread last month, completely different issue which has to do with my house.

This here thread relates to my parents house if you only read it correctly. But sure aint that what trolling is all about! Said thread has also run its course. Time to move along now Mr. Troll.

Hi,

The thread you mention here doesnt read correctly mind you, it has been very inconsistent.

In general, if your neighbour ( which ever one) has built a house and is not able to furnish planning applications, and has not complied with same, you are able to make a complaint. If as you say, other have also then the council will investigate.

On the other house near your parents, just lodge a dispute with the planning application on what ever ground you feel, it will be investigated.

Simple solutions.

RockBadger

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi,

The thread you mention here doesnt read correctly mind you, it has been very inconsistent.

In general, if your neighbour ( which ever one) has built a house and is not able to furnish planning applications, and has not complied with same, you are able to make a complaint. If as you say, other have also then the council will investigate.

On the other house near your parents, just lodge a dispute with the planning application on what ever ground you feel, it will be investigated.

Simple solutions.

In fairness, one part of the thread that does read correctly here is that I said it has run its course (as you can see, a non-contributor was trying to drag it all up again!)

Simple solutions were carried out last week. Thanks again Skyrimaddict, sydthebeat, kceire for your contributions.