Bachelors Walk Bus lane

Dublinflyer

Driving down Bachelors walk this morning and I see that they have moved the bus lane out and there is only one lane now for cars. Anyone know if this is permanent as it will cause chaos when traffic picks up again.

BeerNut

Dublinflyer wrote: »

Anyone know if this is permanent as it will cause chaos when traffic picks up again.

I've never known traffic there to be other than chaotic. Hopefully car drivers will get the message soon.

Dublinflyer

BeerNut wrote: »

I've never known traffic there to be other than chaotic. Hopefully car drivers will get the message soon.

That's what I am afraid off, and they stop coming into the city center and impacts business. Like it or not a lot of people are tied to there cars by choice or just because they want to be. With our current poor public transport options a lot of people don't see the bus as an option for them. I have always thought that if you fix the buses the rest will follow.

MrMorooka

Consider reading this : https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Infographic_cityCenter_Shopper_digi_1.pdf

or this : https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Dublin_City_Centre_Transport_Study_-_Retail_Impact_Assessment_Report.pdf

Most shoppers in the city centre get there by public transport/walking/cycling, and people would use public transport more if it was better.

With our current poor public transport options a lot of people don't see the bus as an option for them.

The only way the public transport options can be improved and the bus be made more viable is if the required space and capacity is given over to it. Otherwise it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I have always thought that if you fix the buses the rest will follow.

Isn't that what they're doing at Bachelor's Walk, fixing the buses?

Dublinflyer

MrMorooka wrote: »

Consider reading this : https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Infographic_cityCenter_Shopper_digi_1.pdf

I had seen this one before and thought it was kind of useless and all pretty pictures. It was taken in the two main shopping streets mostly at the weekend and in the afternoon. It's very valid for shoppers but if they focus on the rush hour mess then the weekend stuff will be a breeze. I would never take the car into the city at the weekends unless I really needed too. Not too long ago we made the mistake of trying to drive down the the north quays at 6pm on a Saturday evening, never again!

I walk by all the main bus stops on Bachelors most mornings and can see how they struggle to cross the 2 lanes of traffic. I would bet that if they were to put in some sort of traffic light that stops the cars in the right lane half way between the halfpenny bridge and O'Connell bridge the bus could get out a lot quicker. It must be very frustrating for the bus drivers to try get out from there. It will be interesting to see how it works with the cyclists sharing the same space as the bus. I hope the guards will be there to enforce the bus lane as well. The amount of cars who go up it with the indicator light on is shocking, the attitude seems to be that I am turning left in one mile so I can use the bus lane.

Lets hope it makes it a bit better.

BeerNut

Dublinflyer wrote: »

Like it or not a lot of people are tied to there cars by choice or just because they want to be.

If it's a choice they're hardly "tied". 40% is the proportion of Dublin households who choose to use a car instead of a different mode, according to a DIT study quoted in this article. Designing the city to accommodate them better would be ridiculous.

jon1981

BeerNut wrote: »

If it's a choice they're hardly "tied". 40% is the proportion of Dublin households who choose to use a car instead of a different mode, according to a DIT study quoted in this article. Designing the city to accommodate them better would be ridiculous.

+1 I know a few commuting into work in the city by car from homes no more than 7-8km from the quays... they have plenty of options but choose the car out of nothing more than comfort.

LollipopJimmy

jon1981 wrote: »

+1 I know a few commuting into work in the city by car from homes no more than 7-8km from the quays... they have plenty of options but choose the car out of nothing more than comfort.

I personally know 10+ people who work in the City Centre and choose to drive. These are people who would probably get there quicker on Dart/Luas/Bus and definitely quicker on a bike.
The problem is we have cyclist being squashed by trucks, cyclists as well as drivers need more education, the amount of cyclists I see doing silly things that they think they are ok to do is mad, like darting up the inside of a left turning car after the car has started the manoeuvre etc..
Then our public transport is just so unreliable, the timetables are set as the best possible scenario. With no traffic and low passenger numbers these timetables are achievable but not on a wet Monday in January.

I'm actually just ranting now and I'm going to stop :pac:

Dublinflyer

What this clearly proves is the fact that I can't put a sentence together today ;-)

If it's a choice they're hardly "tied". 40% is the proportion of Dublin households who choose to use a car instead of a different mode, according to a DIT study quoted in this article. Designing the city to accommodate them better would be ridiculous.

I meant that a lot of people are having to commute a huge distance and go through the city as a result. The reasons for that around cost of living is another conversation. I work in the city center and use the bus every day and am happy to do so. It takes me just over an hour door to door on the bus and I have no complaints. About twice a month I do need to use my car as I have to go into the office but then onwards to a remote customer site. I get to use a parking space when I do but the odd thing is when I drive I get in about 25 minutes quicker leaving at the same time and I park closer to the office.

I completely agree that designing a city around private cars is nuts and it just wont work. Public transport should always come first. I remember that I lived in London around the time the congestion charge came in and there was outrage at the time. Traffic did improve for a while there but it creeps back, it always does. I think in 99% of cities around the world people who don't use public transport have the lowest opinion of it and won't let go of the steering wheel. Maybe they should give out a weeks free bus pass to dirvers and make they try the bus, it's not as bad as they might think.

jon1981

I cycle Bachelors walk every day and it's mayhem , some evenings you can't squeeze a fart up the quays never mind a bicycle.

Then you see frustrated drivers sitting in the cars wasting precious life in their cars when they ignore the more practical options. And don't give me crap about having to do a school run or creche run...I work with plenty of people that manage this without a car.

Victor

Dublinflyer wrote: »

That's what I am afraid off, and they stop coming into the city center and impacts business. Like it or not a lot of people are tied to there cars by choice or just because they want to be. With our current poor public transport options a lot of people don't see the bus as an option for them. I have always thought that if you fix the buses the rest will follow.

Cars are 80% of the traffic, but only about 30% of the people

LollipopJimmy

Cycled up it last night, it's mayhem with taxis darting every which way now bustling for fares along that quay.

Dublinflyer

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Cycled up it last night, it's mayhem with taxis darting every which way now bustling for fares along that quay.

It was no better this morning, drivers just ignoring the new bus lane and getting forced into one lane because of the road works. I noticed a good few more delivery vans parked in the original bus lane as well. The guards need to start handing out a few tickets and moving parked cars and vans along.

LollipopJimmy

Dublinflyer wrote: »

It was no better this morning, drivers just ignoring the new bus lane and getting forced into one lane because of the road works. I noticed a good few more delivery vans parked in the original bus lane as well. The guards need to start handing out a few tickets and moving parked cars and vans along.

The thing is, doing this major change while the Luas works are still ongoing is madness. Plus the ESB ripped up half the quay outside The Rolling Donut two weeks ago and relaid it with what looks to be black chewing gum. These utility companies need to be brought to task over the state they leave the roads.

Inchicore village was all relaid last year and it was ripped asunder again by Eir and is back to the shoddy state it was in previous. Tyrconnel Road is hazardous on a bike now from the lumps out of it

AlanG

Dublinflyer wrote: »

It was no better this morning, drivers just ignoring the new bus lane and getting forced into one lane because of the road works. I noticed a good few more delivery vans parked in the original bus lane as well. The guards need to start handing out a few tickets and moving parked cars and vans along.

I think this legally doesn't come into force until next weekend so the Guards may be onto it then.

LXFlyer

The new bus lanes come into use on Sunday - they aren't finished yet.

The reason they are being introduced is threefold:

1) There will be trams crossing O'Connell Bridge up to every 3 minutes and also trams crossing Rosie Hackett Bridge up to every 3 minutes.

2) The extended tram lengths also complicate the situation. Northbound, the tram will have to get from Westmoreland Street to the O'Connell St stop opposite Easons in one non-stop move, as otherwise the trams will block junctions. Similarly southbound trams will have to move from Marlborough Street stop to Hawkins Street in one movement, as again they would block the junctions.

This poses serious capacity issues for other road users which is the driving reason behind these changes.

3) Bachelor's Walk is the worst location on the entire Dublin Bus network for delays - the extra bus lane will allow buses to keep moving and overtake buses that are stopped at bus stops.

WishUWereHere

Dublinflyer wrote: »

It was no better this morning, drivers just ignoring the new bus lane and getting forced into one lane because of the road works. I noticed a good few more delivery vans parked in the original bus lane as well. The guards need to start handing out a few tickets and moving parked cars and vans along.

And where might I ask are the delivery vans supposed to park? All well & good trying to get public transport to flow better, but at what cost? Put enough restrictions in place and You'll chase the customers away. And then? No customers, businesses close down, And then? Drop off in rates and taxes, which pays the clowns who make these rules.

One only has to look at Naas and look at where greed got them. Now they have implemented free parking on weekends to try and get people back into the town.

Victor

WishUWereHere wrote: »

One only has to look at Naas and look at where greed got them. Now they have implemented free parking on weekends to try and get people back into the town.

But look at Naas before the bypass - so clogged with traffic that people went as far as Tallaght to go shopping.

The current problems are probably not unrelated to the building of the likes of Monread Shopping Centre and Newhall Retail Park.

Stephen15

LXFlyer wrote: »

Bachelor's Walk is the worst location on the entire Dublin Bus network for delays - the extra bus lane will allow buses to keep moving and overtake buses that are stopped at bus stops.

While I agree that Bachelors Walk is a blackspot bus traffic wise. I will admit that the double bus lane will not be the be all and end all to all Bachelor's Walk bus traffic issues it is a start. Buses in the outer bus lane will be queing in order to gain access to stops. For this double bus to work flawlessly I think that all bus stops on Bachelor's Walk should be removed.

Stephen15

Stephen15 wrote: »

While I agree that Bachelors Walk is a blackspot bus traffic wise. I will admit that the double bus lane will not be the be all and end all to all Bachelor's Walk bus traffic issues it is a start. Buses in the outer bus lane will be queing in order to gain access to stops. For this double bus to work flawlessly I think that all bus stops on Bachelor's Walk should be removed.

Surely that'll just shift this problem somewhere else?

Stephen15

Lexie Delightful Warehouse wrote: »

Surely that'll just shift this problem somewhere else?

D'Olier should be made bus only with island bus stops to make up for the loss of bus stops on the quays. This could serve as proper city centre bus interchange.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

While I agree that Bachelors Walk is a blackspot bus traffic wise. I will admit that the double bus lane will not be the be all and end all to all Bachelor's Walk bus traffic issues it is a start. Buses in the outer bus lane will be queing in order to gain access to stops. For this double bus to work flawlessly I think that all bus stops on Bachelor's Walk should be removed.

The stop cages are big enough to cope with the buses given that the outside bus lane will now be the bus traffic lane - that won't be an issue

You can't simply remove all of the stops - those particular stops are some of the busiest in the city. You'd also be creating a massive gap in stops - far more than is acceptable.

Having two lanes of moving buses wouldn't be a solution given the pinchpoint of the bus gate.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

D'Olier should be made bus only with island bus stops to make up for the loss of bus stops on the quays. This could serve as proper city centre bus interchange.

Not really an option for the moment given the need to provide access to Fleet Street.

WishUWereHere

Victor wrote: »

But look at Naas before the bypass - so clogged with traffic that people went as far as Tallaght to go shopping.

The current problems are probably not unrelated to the building of the likes of Monread Shopping Centre and Newhall Retail Park.

I agree Victor that Naas was clogged before the by-pass, so was every single other city, town & village I suspect too prior to buidling by-passes. But the by-pass has been built a long time now, the problems in the town I suspect relate far more to ( as You say ) the building of the Monread SC.

Dún Laoghaire is another example of where clowns with a mission on their brain have screwed up a town. And to confound matters, the same 'expert' is now running the show in Dublin City.

I would never claim to be an expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Dublin City regret this alteration, and can somewhere in the future not be surprised to see the pedestrianisation of College Green/Dame Street being scrapped.

WishUWereHere

All well & good doing away with public vehicle lanes/restrictions within the city, then what? The Luas can sross the city once every 3 minutes. But surely a lot of the customers on each & every Luas will mean lesser customers on a Bus?

Are the 'decision making experts' not being over optomistic? Where will all these potential customers come from? I saw 3 ( I suspect ) druggies rowing yesterday at the bottom of Georges St. in full view of the Public and as long as the likes of this is tollerated, I'll avoid Dublin as much as possible.

LXFlyer

WishUWereHere wrote: »

All well & good doing away with public vehicle lanes/restrictions within the city, then what? The Luas can sross the city once every 3 minutes. But surely a lot of the customers on each & every Luas will mean lesser customers on a Bus?

Are the 'decision making experts' not being over optomistic? Where will all these potential customers come from? I saw 3 ( I suspect ) druggies rowing yesterday at the bottom of Georges St. in full view of the Public and as long as the likes of this is tollerated, I'll avoid Dublin as much as possible.

Not necessarily - the bus routes along the Quays don't go anywhere near the new LUAS line except in the city centre.

markpb

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Dún Laoghaire is another example of where clowns with a mission on their brain have screwed up a town. And to confound matters, the same 'expert' is now running the show in Dublin City.

The level of vitriol directed at the city manager is laughable. Are people under the mistaken impression that Dublin is a dictatorship with its obedient denizens lining up to salute our glorious leader? Policy and budget are set by the *elected* councilors. The city manager and his staff implement those policies and look after the day to day running of the city. They don't wake up one morning and decide that motorists are spawn of Satan and should be repressed at all costs. The city manager doesn't direct an army of bus lane painters by first throwing darts at a map.

If you have a problem with how the city is run, these are the people that you need to talk to. And if they listen and the new bus measures are removed, enjoy the extra lane of traffic jam that you will have won because you'll be going nowhere as the lights change every 30 seconds to let a Luas cross through the city centre and you'll have no alternative because the buses will be sitting in the same traffic jam.

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I'll avoid Dublin as much as possible.

There are far more people living in Dublin who will benefit from this decision than there are people from Kildare who drive in for a days shopping now and again. At some stage, people living in the outer suburbs and surrounding counties will need to accept that the city centre is a place where people live and work and do so without a car. Prioritising the few who drive over the majority who don't would be silly.

Victor

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Dún Laoghaire is another example of where clowns with a mission on their brain have screwed up a town.

No. The combination of Dundrum SC and the recession is what happened to Dún Laoghaire. Last time I was in Dún Laoghaire SC it looked like it was stuck in 1984. Bloomfields is just a big supermarket.

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I saw 3 ( I suspect ) druggies rowing yesterday at the bottom of Georges St. in full view of the Public and as long as the likes of this is tollerated, I'll avoid Dublin as much as possible.

So, Luas Cross City won't affect you anyway?

MartyMcFly84

Delivery vans/trucks and tour buses parked outside of the hotels take up a huge amount of space in the existing bus lane which is the reason why it was not working. Buses had to regularly manoeuvre out of the bus lane to get past. I do agree with the extra lane however this will creep back into one lane if something is not done about the tour coaches and delivery vans.

Both tour coaches and delivieries should have to have everything delivered or dropped off by 7am and should not be allowed to pull up on a bus lane in the middle of morning rush hour traffic.

miamee

Saw a Guinness truck, a delivery van and a car getting frustrated at Ormond Quay lights and deciding to lash up the middle lane on Bachelor's Walk this morning. I couldn't see if there were any Gardaí further down to catch/discourage them.

TallGlass

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Delivery vans/trucks and tour buses parked outside of the hotels take up a huge amount of space in the existing bus lane which is the reason why it was not working. Buses had to regularly manoeuvre out of the bus lane to get past. I do agree with the extra lane however this will creep back into one lane if something is not done about the tour coaches and delivery vans.

Both tour coaches and delivieries should have to have everything delivered or dropped off by 7am and should not be allowed to pull up on a bus lane in the middle of morning rush hour traffic.

People live in town, you can't expect couriers to be banging down doors at all hours of the night to deliver parcels, some business don't even open till 8/9am, expecting couriers to finish drops in town before 7am isn't going to happen.

Deliveries need to be made, the same as busses need to collect passengers. If anything with the upward surge in online shopping, it's will be a case of even more deliveries.

As for trucks I see your point but you've got to remember people live in the City Centre, you can have trucks doing drops and making a load of racket at all hours of the morning either.

The thing I find with Dublin/Ireland generally when it comes to transport and traffic management, usually by the time a solution for a problem is in place, the initial problem has manifested into a bigger problem and it's then catch up time.

Inevitably we will need to have transport underground. Lets get started on it and just be done with it once and for all. Pissy footing around with Luas trams, busses and the idea of buses with mentally of a Luas is stupid.

Dart underground is a serious solution to alot of transport issues in the Dublin area. With it online it will ease pressure on other service and bring some functionally to transport in Dublin.

Stephen15

There is currently another much larger thread on this matter I think these two threads can be merged

prinzeugen

Stephen15 wrote: »

There is currently another much larger thread on this matter I think these two threads can be merged

Why? So anyone that posts anything anti cyclist gets carded and thus silenced?

MartyMcFly84

People live in town, you can't expect couriers to be banging down doors at all hours of the night to deliver parcels, some business don't even open till 8/9am, expecting couriers to finish drops in town before 7am isn't going to happen.

Couriers are not the issue its delivery vans and tour coaches. If tour coaches are picking people up they should do so outside of morning rush hour traffic.

Deliveries can be made at times outside of rush hours traffic also, in larger cities deliveries are dropped off early in the morning for this very reason.

I think in general Ireland needs to relook at its working and business hours. The Typical 9-5 is changing but the greater flexibility with work and business hours the less pressure on our transport links at these crucial times.

uch

On a purely selfish note, it knocked about 15 mins off my commute home yesterday, but I doubt thats a fair reflection with Holidays and the kids off school

LollipopJimmy

Sorry for bumping the old thread but this bus gate is beginning to annoy me, it's causing mayhem purely because drivers ignore the bus lane and use whatever lane is moving then switch lanes when theirs stops moving. It's a hazard and needs to be enforced, a few hours of enforcement a week from RPU would help this thing work

WishUWereHere

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Sorry for bumping the old thread but this bus gate is beginning to annoy me, it's causing mayhem purely because drivers ignore the bus lane and use whatever lane is moving then switch lanes when theirs stops moving. It's a hazard and needs to be enforced, a few hours of enforcement a week from RPU would help this thing work

Well said, and can I add that yellow box where the 2 lights are? Busses and taxis go when their light is green but they cannot cross O'CB and then block the box when some might want to go up the inside lane to turn left up O'C St.?

Alicano

Had to drive that whole side of quays from Christ church bridge yesterday. F me. What a mess of a system. stop.. 1 metre... stop... 1 metre.. stop.. Wasn't even rush hour. Wanted to get out and walk and do my best Michael Douglas 'Falling Down' impersonation

BeerNut

Alicano wrote: »

Wanted to get out and walk

Sounds like it's doing its job.

km991148

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

use whatever lane is moving then switch lanes when theirs stops moving.

This is typical driver behaviour in Ireland - same as on the motorways, dual cardge ways etc

Complete waste of time for everyone (except one or two of the lane jumpers) but adds significant more time to others as they expect and brake for those squeezing back in.

as a bus commuter this has been great

Walter Bishop

And as a pedestrian, much easier to get across the Quays there, and added bonus of ocasionally seeing the Guards doing smartarses in private cars driving down the bus lane.

Walter Bishop

Walter Bishop wrote: »

And as a pedestrian, much easier to get across the Quays there, and added bonus of ocasionally seeing the Guards doing smartarses in private cars driving down the bus lane.

not often enough

cameras and 100 % prosecution please

LollipopJimmy

Deleted User wrote: »

as a bus commuter this has been great

Walter Bishop wrote: »

And as a pedestrian, much easier to get across the Quays there, and added bonus of ocasionally seeing the Guards doing smartarses in private cars driving down the bus lane.

The point I was making was it could be so much better. Most of my observation has been from sitting in the rolling donut there :rolleyes: or on my bike, cars and taxis darting from lane to lane have made it fairly dangerous and the Guards need to be far more visible enforcing the bus gate for it to work properly.

ongarboy

I guess anyone who believes private car (usually with a single occupant) should be the primary mode for driving into the city will be frustrated with the revised set up.

For everyone else, it now means you have two dedicated traffic lanes where single vehicles carrying up to 50-80 passengers can be ferried into the city centre way more efficiently without having to stop/start every minute. 1000s of public transport users benefit for every handful of private car commuters/shoppers/day trippers etc who are disgruntled. I think the greater good is the key point here!

WishUWereHere

Walter Bishop wrote: »

And as a pedestrian, much easier to get across the Quays there, and added bonus of ocasionally seeing the Guards doing smartarses in private cars driving down the bus lane.

We talking about the same street? I drive up the quays every day, and only once have I seen the Gardaí there nabbing those in the wrong lane.

abcabc123123

ongarboy wrote: »

I guess anyone who believes private car (usually with a single occupant) should be the primary mode for driving into the city will be frustrated with the revised set up.

For everyone else, it now means you have two dedicated traffic lanes where single vehicles carrying up to 50-80 passengers can be ferried into the city centre way more efficiently without having to stop/start every minute. 1000s of public transport users benefit for every handful of private car commuters/shoppers/day trippers etc who are disgruntled. I think the greater good is the key point here!

Indeed. I cycle the quays every day and it is a lot better than it used to be, although that's not saying much. It can still be very hazardous some days.

The north quays should be closed to private traffic, bar exceptions for deliveries and people with mobility issues.

LollipopJimmy

abcabc123123 wrote: »

Indeed. I cycle the quays every day and it is a lot better than it used to be, although that's not saying much. It can still be very hazardous some days.

The north quays should be closed to private traffic, bar exceptions for deliveries and people with mobility issues.

Jumping off a 50ft wall is safer than jumping from a 60ft wall

I have still found the Quays horrendous on the bike and it's mainly down to drivers having no lane discipline. Especially from just after the Four Courts up to O'Connell Bridge