Lomachenko v Marriaga

walshb

No thread on Loma last night..

Another mismatch really..both in terms of talent and size.

And spending 90 percent of his time and energy "messing."

Kind of boring...and that stupid showboating-messing needs to be stamped out!

snowflaker

He is a class apart though. He humiliated the opposition. He will have to move up weight to find any opposition.

He is wonderful to watch though.

snowflaker

walshb wrote: »

I see Bellew is planting the seed for another Haye payday....

Regrets embracing the cast-iron ass*hole after their fight...

They can show it on Dave!

titan18

walshb wrote: »

No thread on Loma last night..

Another mismatch really..both in terms of talent and size.

And spending 90 percent of his time and energy "messing."

Kind of boring...and that stupid showboating-messing needs to be stamped out!

Ya, was a bit of a mismatch but still some excellent skills on show by Lomachenko. Tbh, there's only 4 or 5 decent fights out there for him, and only 2 I think can give him a challenge (Garcia and Linares), unless he moves well up in weight. There's no one at 126 or 130 beating him imo

walshb

titan18 wrote: »

Ya, was a bit of a mismatch but still some excellent skills on show by Lomachenko. Tbh, there's only 4 or 5 decent fights out there for him, and only 2 I think can give him a challenge (Garcia and Linares), unless he moves well up in weight. There's no one at 126 or 130 beating him imo

I don't doubt his skills, but so much is so overplayed, and not needed, and not even boxing..

And that ridiculous messing is really off putting, and should be stamped out...

I am a fan, but just tone it down and get to work..

SHOVELLER

Without a doubt a masterful performance but the taunting is very disrespectful for all. Add in his lack of english here and the fact that his management are not getting fighters at his level means getting universal approval could take a while.
Having said that his skillset is astounding.

megadodge

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Without a doubt a masterful performance but the taunting is very disrespectful for all. Add in his lack of english here and the fact that his management are not getting fighters at his level means getting universal approval could take a while.
Having said that his skillset is astounding.

He spoke in English in the post-fight interview, so obviously he's working on it. And that's not a big deal anyway in spite of what others try to say.

And I really, really, REALLY don't think it's HIS management that's not getting fighters at his level in the ring with him. Firstly, how many fighters out there would you regard "at his level"? Secondly could you imagine eg. Oscar Valdez's people letting him anywhere near Lomachenko?

Morrison J

I'm all for the taunting to be honest. Love a fighter showing some charisma in the ring and making it entertaining. Kind of thing Rigo could learn from.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

I'm all for the taunting to be honest. Love a fighter showing some charisma in the ring and making it entertaining. Kind of thing Rigo could learn from.

No issue with humiliating an opponent?

Standards mean nothing?

I think with Loma it's just very unnecessary, as well as stupid looking. He actually looks ridiculous doing it..

Anyway, I personally do not like to see it..

Ok, the odd flash here and there I wouldn't mind, but surely you can spot overplaying it and coming across as pure disrespectful?

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

No issue with humiliating an opponent?

Standards mean nothing?

I think with Loma it's just very unnecessary, as well as stupid looking. He actually looks ridiculous doing it..

Anyway, I personally do not like to see it..

Ok, the odd flash here and there I wouldn't mind, but surely you can spot overplaying it and coming across as pure disrespectful?

No I love it personally. I get why people don't like it as it's obviously disrespectful but there's millions of examples of disrespect in boxing to be fair. It's everywhere.

It's smart from Loma too. Was all over social media the next morning just like the matador impression against Sosa. Not easy marketing these European fighters with limited English in the states. Loma clearly gets it and he's good enough to pull it off too.

walshb

His English has clearly improved...

Anyway, let's hope Mikey cracks him on the chin if he tries that sh1t with him.

snowflaker

Some Showboating and style is fine as long as you can back it up, and he can!

walshb

snowflaker wrote: »

Some Showboating and style is fine as long as you can back it up

Not sure what backing it up has to do with it really..

Messing and humiliating your opponent is ok as long as you're humiliating him?

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

His English has clearly improved...

Anyway, let's hope Mikey cracks him on the chin if he tries that sh1t with him.

It's improving but he's hardly going to be on First Take with Kellerman trash talking selling his fights yet is he? Still pretty limited.

And I agree 100% with your second sentence. I'm with Mikey if that fight ever actually happens.

Burial.

I'm all for a bit of showboating too but he does seem to be taking the piss a little. Kind of like McGregor doing the hands behind the back it's turning into a meme. I get it though, he's really trying to push this Matrix angle and of course the clickbait clowns on YouTube and Facebook are only growing his name and the clueless casuals will lap it up. From a marketing ploy he's doing it right.

A fella at work who knows I'm into Boxing was on about Lomachenko and how he's the best fighter he's seen in ages and how he'd beat Mayweather because of his "movement and power" and he alluded to the matador thing. Nod and smile, nod and smile. Mind you this fella probably couldn't identify Andre Ward or Gennady Golovkin in a picture so Lomachenko is clearly doing something well in terms of bigging his name.

No doubting his skill though, very fine operator. Lads seem to be beaten by him before they even enter the ring though.

snowflaker

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what backing it up has to do with it really..

Messing and humiliating your opponent is ok as long as you're humiliating him?

I wouldn't call it humiliating what he did. What he did is no worse than Ali did

Morrison J

I do definitely think it's an effort to entertain more than humiliate. I 100% do see where people are coming from in not liking it though.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

I do definitely think it's an effort to entertain more than humiliate. I 100% do see where people are coming from in not liking it though.

Fair point..

Loma's talent, skills, movement and intellect are so undeniable and so far above the rest that the showboating just undermines his class. And really (from my perspective) it's just plain tacky and unnecessary when you're that far ahead.
The McGregor "Hey need a new sparring partner cos I'm free" callout on twitter however was just totally fun and perfectly timed!

walshb

Cali_girl wrote: »

Loma's talent, skills, movement and intellect are so undeniable and so far above the rest that the showboating just undermines his class. And really (from my perspective) it's just plain tacky and unnecessary when you're that far ahead.
The McGregor "Hey need a new sparring partner cos I'm free" callout on twitter however was just totally fun and perfectly timed!

Exactly. No need for that when the foe is clearly your inferior. It's bad taste.

Thing is, and Morrisson mentioned it about Loma more trying to entertain than humiliate. I think he is just a little clueless as opposed to being an out and out d1ck. Loma comes across as a respectful and good guy.

Separately: I wish he would concentrate a bit more on actual scoring and offense. He does an awful lot of extraneous stuff that is just not needed. I think Tim Bradley touched on it at one point when saying that he should get to work.

I really hope Loma starts getting bigger and better fights from here on in.

StringerBell

I think a lot of it is to do with raising his profile, the skills are unbelievable but as evidenced by other events the money is where the show is, obviously anybody who is interested in boxing is well aware of him and just how good he is but a wider audience needs to be tapped in to if he is going to make big money.

For context, that was his ESPN debut and more people watched the UFC Mexico event which had a flyweight fight as its ME though from what I read online there may be some external circumstances that contributed to that, still Pac-Horn did 3.5/4 million I think and his did about 700k

I would also say that there has always been an element of showboating and taunting to his game, even as an amateur. Maybe it helps to pump him up, it certainly helps present an image of dominance to judges/corner. Also it could simply be a nasty edge in him that is not a bad thing for boxing once.

I am a huge fan of Loma but I think he is going to need to move up to really raise his profile and acclaim.

SHOVELLER

megadodge wrote: »

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Without a doubt a masterful performance but the taunting is very disrespectful for all. Add in his lack of english here and the fact that his management are not getting fighters at his level means getting universal approval could take a while.
Having said that his skillset is astounding.

He spoke in English in the post-fight interview, so obviously he's working on it. And that's not a big deal anyway in spite of what others try to say.

And I really, really, REALLY don't think it's HIS management that's not getting fighters at his level in the ring with him. Firstly, how many fighters out there would you regard "at his level"? Secondly could you imagine eg. Oscar Valdez's people letting him anywhere near Lomachenko?

I concede that he is early enough in his career to get way with not being fluent in english. His level would be Russell, Rigondeaux and Salido and these are the fights he needs to maintain exposure as he drew less on ESPN than last time on HBO.

ThinkProgress

Also not a fan of trying to humiliate your opponent... it is completely unnecessary.

Showboating is one thing. I like to see a fighter having fun, and showing off a bit when they are clearly on top... no problem at all with that. But there is a line you shouldn't cross. You have to show a bit of class, when you have that kind of ability!

Very exciting fighter though. The scary thing is, I don't think we've seen his full potential or the extent of his skills yet... he needs better opponents.

Fantasy fight... Can you imagine prime Manny Vs Loma....!!!?? That would be epic!!

ThunderCat

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Also not a fan of trying to humiliate your opponent... it is completely unnecessary.

Showboating is one thing. I like to see a fighter having fun, and showing off a bit when they are clearly on top... no problem at all with that. But there is a line you shouldn't cross. You have to show a bit of class, when you have that kind of ability!

Very exciting fighter though. The scary thing is, I don't think we've seen his full potential or the extent of his skills yet... he needs better opponents.

Fantasy fight... Can you imagine prime Manny Vs Loma....!!!?? That would be epic!!

He doesn't look that big to me. I think 140 will be the max that he will campaign at. He looks too small for 147 but who knows. I wouldn't be putting him in against a prime Manny just yet as he hasn't been tested yet. Just like Manny had to, I'd like to see him come through tests like Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales and Juan Manuel Marquez which in this day and age would be Mikey Garcia, Terence Crawford and Rigondeaux (if it can be made at 130). Only then can we seriously asses his chances against a prime Pac Man.

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

Loma vs Rigo has been reportedly signed for December 9th. Nice early Christmas present!

Serious? 130 I take it...

What a Christmas present.

Morrison J

Can't see past Lomachenko in that fight. Way too big for Rigo.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Can't see past Lomachenko in that fight. Way too big for Rigo.

Barring a one punch kind KO for Rigo I see him being overwhelmed. Rigo has 0 advantages.. Loma has too much momentum and variety and intent.

nacho libre

Rigo, if he is up for it, will win.

snowflaker

The #LomachenkoRigondeaux fight is close to being made for Dec. 9. Their combined amateur record: 859-13. #boxing

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

Rigo, if he is up for it, will win.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Rigo got the win, but what is up for it here?

Volume wise I don't think that he can compete, so he needs to shutdown Loma's volume and work to a pace and amount that suits him.

His feet and his long range and speed are his keys. Keeping Loma at mid to long range and being competitive via spurts here and there. If he cannot keep Loma at some distance then I see Loma swarming him and tiring him out, whilst doing good close kind of offensive work.

StringerBell

Really hope they can make that fight official, woke up to the news on my fb newsfeed this morning and put me in great form !

Frank Bullitt

snowflaker wrote: »

The #LomachenkoRigondeaux fight is close to being made for Dec. 9. Their combined amateur record: 859-13. #boxing

That is incredible.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

I wouldn't be too surprised if Rigo got the win, but what is up for it here?

If he is motivated, which surely he would be for such a contest. Rigo is a class operator, if anyone can beat Lomachenko, I believe it's him

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

If he is motivated, which surely he would be for such a contest. Rigo is a class operator, if anyone can beat Lomachenko, I believe it's him

I take it that you sensed a lack of motivation in some of his pro fights?

I always felt that he fought and fights a certain way. Gives the appearance of not always being "up for it."

Burial.

I'd quietly fancy Rigo as well except for the fact he seems to be suffering from knockdowns lately, purely flash knockdowns ala Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't rate Lomachenko's power as anything above decent/pretty good but with the move up in weight and what not I think a few knockdowns could end up costing Rigo on the cards. He has nothing to lose tbh, even his diehard fans are getting a bit fed up with him, and his 0 means nothing either... It's a fine name to add to Lomachenko's record as he continues his march to superstardom but it's a tricky fight for sure. Hats off to both if they sign for this and make it happen before the end of the year. Apart from the sh*tfest next weekend it'll cap off one of the best years in Boxing in a long time.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

I take it that you sensed a lack of motivation in some of his pro fights?

I always felt that he fought and fights a certain way. Gives the appearance of not always being "up for it."

Yes I do. I feel he has never really pushed himself. The complete opposite to people like Froch and AJ.