Architect and/or Engineer for Planning Permission Application

onion82

Hi All,

I have recently purchased an approx. 70sq m mid-terrace red brick in D8.

I have had a few architects out to look at the house and make suggestions including one who charged €300 to create a basic layout of the floorplan to include a 2 storey extension (approx 15 sq m on ground floor and 10 sq m on first floor). This is the layout we are happy to go with and now I need to proceed with a planning application but am unsure of how best to do this and the relevant costs involved.

I have been advised by a couple of people (including the architect who came up with the layout) to avoid using an architect and just get an engineer to come up with the relevant drawings for the application and the ensuing construction.

Would this suffice?

I have spoken to a couple of architects who have (understandably!) advised against this and suggested I may need an architect and engineer and possibly even an architectural technician! I am trying to cut out as much professional fees as possible as I am on a tight budget for the entire job.

Can I get away with just an engineer and are there any suggestions as to where to go?

Also, what should I budget for fees to get to the stage where I have planning granted and drawings for my builder to work off?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

jmBuildExt

onion82 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have recently purchased an approx. 70sq m mid-terrace red brick in D8.

I have had a few architects out to look at the house and make suggestions including one who charged €300 to create a basic layout of the floorplan to include a 2 storey extension (approx 15 sq m on ground floor and 10 sq m on first floor). This is the layout we are happy to go with and now I need to proceed with a planning application but am unsure of how best to do this and the relevant costs involved.

I have been advised by a couple of people (including the architect who came up with the layout) to avoid using an architect and just get an engineer to come up with the relevant drawings for the application and the ensuing construction.

Would this suffice?

I have spoken to a couple of architects who have (understandably!) advised against this and suggested I may need an architect and engineer and possibly even an architectural technician! I am trying to cut out as much professional fees as possible as I am on a tight budget for the entire job.

Can I get away with just an engineer and are there any suggestions as to where to go?

Also, what should I budget for fees to get to the stage where I have planning granted and drawings for my builder to work off?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

If you're borrowing from the bank they will give you a costs form to be filled out by architect OR engineer and it will be an engineer that does inspections at various stages to release payments from the bank. So you only NEED an engineer.

Others will argue that an architect will probably see things that an engineer wouldnt.

For your job, since you have a layout you're happy with, if i was you, I would just go straight to an engineer to do you up the relevant construction drawings, stand over your costings for the bank (if you need a bank), and then do inspections at construction stage.

BryanF

jmBuildExt wrote: »

If you're borrowing from the bank they will give you a costs form to be filled out by architect OR engineer and it will be an engineer that does inspections at various stages to release payments from the bank. So you only NEED an engineer.

Others will argue that an architect will probably see things that an engineer wouldnt.

For your job, since you have a layout you're happy with, if i was you, I would just go straight to an engineer to do you up the relevant construction drawings, stand over your costings for the bank (if you need a bank), and then do inspections at construction stage.

An arch, Eng or surveyor will be accepted by the bank..
The ciob (charter instute of builders) and CIAT ( arch tech) amongst others ar also accepted by some banks

Most engineers will not pay any attention to thermal bridging, air-tightness etc

onion82

Thanks for the advice guys.

Would you have an estimation on costs?

Rabbo

BryanF wrote: »

Most engineers will not pay any attention to thermal bridging, air-tightness etc

That's an unfair statement to make, particularly by a moderator on a public forum.

There's plenty of ATs and architects out there who aren't up to speed on air tightness and thermal bridging. Engineering is a very technical profession and engineers are well placed to advise on technical detailing. There are of course engineers who aren't au fait with modern construction methods, but the same applies to architects and technicians as well.

OP; an architect, engineer or AT would all be suitable for overseeing your project, particularly if you have a design in mind already. Chose your professional based on recommendations, references and quotes, not what a seemingly biased moderator professes on a public forum

BryanF

Rabbo
Apologies don't mean to offend

I deal with eng's all day long, their core business is part A structure.

Penn

BryanF wrote: »

Rabbo
Apologies don't mean to offend

I deal with eng's all day long, their core business is part A structure.

Then you deal with engineers who deal mostly in Structural items. There are numerous engineers who carry out a wider range of works including all aspects of the TGDs provided they determine they are competent and experienced enough to do so under their PII and responsibilities of their respective professional body.

Rabbo

Many of the engineers working on domestic jobs are civil rather than structural engineers so Part A wouldn't necessarily be their speciality in the first place. The government have deemed Chartered Engineers along with Architects and Registered Surveyors to be suitable for acting as Assigned Certifiers which I think is a reasonable endorsement of their suitability for overseeing all types of construction work. ATs have routes available to them to get on the Register of Surveyors which I also think is fair enough. As I've already said, I'd be more concerned about references/experience and price than I would be of a persons profession, particularly for domestic work.

Allen2020

Any update on the Engineer cost? Thanks. :-)

Allen2020

Any update on the Engineer cost? Thanks. :-)

onion82

The best quote I have gotten so far is just over €5k ex VAT.

This includes;

a) survey of existing dwelling & site - measurements & levels of the dwelling / site so that a set of drawings can be prepared for the proposed extension & service connections;

b) Drawings for planning app – drafting of a set of plans for the proposed extension, with allowance for one revision

c) Pre-planning meeting with the planners

d) Preparation of six sets of documents and drawings for a planning app. Includes cost of the newspaper notice, OS maps required for the planning submission and planning fee;

e) The planning drawings will be drafted with appropriate detail / spec so that construction tenders can be obtained.

Any thoughts on the price/offering??

onion82

I got another quote of closer to 7k for roughly the same options but also included construction drawings and spec although I think any decent builder can build off tender and planning drawings so possibly unnecessary.

They also added a charge of €450 for a requirement to appoint a Project Supervisor for the Design Process (PSDP). This seems an unnecessary extra or am I wrong?

There was also another additional extra...
Assigned Certifier Fee Proposal. Under the 2014 Building Control Regulations BC(A)R all buildings, new houses and extensions are required to comply with BC(A)R which in turns makes it a requirement for the building/home owner to appoint an assigned certifier on all projects. However, since 2015 the regulations now have an “Opt Out’ option and it is recommended you consult with your Solicitor prior to opting out as this could have implications when you go to sell your property in relation to Certs of Compliance.


The charge for the service was quoted as: €4,565.00.

A retainer of €1,250.00 is payable in advance of the Assigned Certifier commencing work.
Balance is due prior to the lodgement of the planning permission.

Design €1,250.00
Construction Phase* €2,500.00
Certification €815.00

This seems insane. Is this necessary?

Metric Tensor

PSDP is a legal requirement for almost all construction jobs. Technically if you redo your bathroom and you get a plumber and electrician you need one!

You can opt out of the requirement for an assigned certifier but there are ramifications and potential consequences that you should be aware of before doing so.

Plenty of threads on here discussing it.

BryanF

onion82 wrote: »

I got another quote of closer to 7k for roughly the same options but also included construction drawings and spec although I think any decent builder can build off tender and planning drawings so possibly unnecessary.

If you don't give a builder drawings they will only be inclined to do what they have 'alway done' . Often they will not be up on current regulations. There has been a 1000 pages of building regs in the last 10yeaes not to mention CE product regs etc
Was on a site recently where all the reveals had been closed by block. This is the reason you pay for arch/Eng drawings and expertise.

onion82

Fuaranach - don't suppose you could PM me the details of your engineer. Thanks