Regulations for car trailers

Buford T. Justice XIX

I am thinking of buying an 8x5 cattle trailer for the car, a 2011 1.6l diesel Focus. I was wondering what the regulations on weight is for the trailer and will my licence, B&W, do for pulling approx 550kgs max?

Green farmer

So much confusion out there that would wreck your head, might be easier to do the BE test. No looking over your shoulder then and the only figure you'll be concerned about is the towing capacity of car. 8x5 will be about 750 plus whatever you put into it.

alps

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I am thinking of buying an 8x5 cattle trailer for the car, a 2011 1.6l diesel Focus. I was wondering what the regulations on weight is for the trailer and will my licence, B&W, do for pulling approx 550kgs max?

No chance with the licence....youll have to do the test, and unless guys are only carrying grass clippings to the dump, they'll eventually have to do the test.

On the car towing capacity. All cars and jeeps have a metal tag somewhere in the engine compartment detailing four weights
The first is the total allowed weight of the car while loaded.
The second is the total allowed weight of the car and a braked trailer.
The third is the maximum allowed weight in the front axle.
The fourth is the total allowed weight in the rear axle.

The total allowed weight for a loaded trailer is Number 2 MINUS number 1....which in the case of the focus will be around 1200kg.
As long as the total weight of the 8x5 trailer including load does not exceed 1200kg, the CAR is allowed to pull it......however you will not be allowed to with your licence.

The B licence only allows you to tow a laden trailer under 750kg in weight, however if the design gross weight of the trailer, which in the case of an 8x5 could be 2000/2500, exceeds the 1200 capability of the car, you need the BE licence.

The weight limit is determined differently for both the B and the BE licence.

The BE licence allows you tow tow up to the maximum weight allowed by the towing vehicle, so your ford focus could tow around an empty 3 axle 14 ft box as long as the ACTUAL combined weight did not exceed 2600kg.(which is approx the max allowable in the focus)

However the B licence only allows you to tow based on the DESIGN weight bearing capacity of the towing vehicle and trailer. So even if the car and trailer are empty, if the combined design carrying capacity of them exceeds 3500kg...you cannot tow it.

For instance in this case, the maximum allowable combined weight of the focus and trailer is about 2,629kg, giving us an allowable trailer maximum weight if 1200kg, then the design carrying capacity of the trailer must be below this 1200kg, which is really only a dog box.

BE....ACTUAL combined weight
B......DESIGN combined weight

Get your BE guys..

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

No chance with the licence....youll have to do the test, and unless guys are only carrying grass clippings to the dump, they'll eventually have to do the test.

On the car towing capacity. All cars and jeeps have a metal tag somewhere in the engine compartment detailing four weights
The first is the total allowed weight of the car while loaded.
The second is the total allowed weight of the car and a braked trailer.
The third is the maximum allowed weight in the front axle.
The fourth is the total allowed weight in the rear axle.

The total allowed weight for a loaded trailer is Number 2 MINUS number 1....which in the case of the focus will be around 1200kg.
As long as the total weight of the 8x5 trailer including load does not exceed 1200kg, the CAR is allowed to pull it......however you will not be allowed to with your licence.

The B licence only allows you to tow a laden trailer under 750kg in weight, however if the design gross weight of the trailer, which in the case of an 8x5 could be 2000/2500, exceeds the 1200 capability of the car, you need the BE licence.

The weight limit is determined differently for both the B and the BE licence.

The BE licence allows you tow tow up to the maximum weight allowed by the towing vehicle, so your ford focus could tow around an empty 3 axle 14 ft box as long as the ACTUAL combined weight did not exceed 2600kg.(which is approx the max allowable in the focus)

However the B licence only allows you to tow based on the DESIGN weight bearing capacity of the towing vehicle and trailer. So even if the car and trailer are empty, if the combined design carrying capacity of them exceeds 3500kg...you cannot tow it.

For instance in this case, the maximum allowable combined weight of the focus and trailer is about 2,629kg, giving us an allowable trailer maximum weight if 1200kg, then the design carrying capacity of the trailer must be below this 1200kg, which is really only a dog box.

BE....ACTUAL combined weight
B......DESIGN combined weight

Get your BE guys..

Ah, balls!

Thanks for that, alps, a very good explanation.

cute geoge

Is there any car/van that would allow you tow light 8x5 trailer with 5/6 calves ????

alps

cute geoge wrote: »

Is there any car/van that would allow you tow light 8x5 trailer with 5/6 calves ????

Yes,most would...

Take the example of the Ford Focus above....if you have a BE license, as long as the ACTUAL weight of the trailer plus calves is under 1200kg, you would be legal..

Buford T. Justice XIX

I'll have to do some thinking on this. I have a 10 year licence with 4 more years left but it seems I should only have gotten a 3 year licence so I could be making life a bit complicated to go getting a BE licence in the near future as it could compromise my current licence.

cute geoge

cute geoge wrote: »

Is there any car/van that would allow you tow light 8x5 trailer with 5/6 calves ????

I meant with no trailer lience .e.g. If i had a car with 2 ton capacity and weighing 1.4 ton and a trailer with gross d.v.w of 2 ton .I should be under the limit of 3.5 ton or am i missing something but i would need a car/van with the 2 ton towing capacity .I am wondering is there such a car/van out there that fits the bill ?????

alps

cute geoge wrote: »

I meant with no trailer lience .e.g. If i had a car with 2 ton capacity and weighing 1.4 ton and a trailer with gross d.v.w of 2 ton .I should be under the limit of 3.5 ton or am i missing something but i would need a car/van with the 2 ton towing capacity .I am wondering is there such a car/van out there that fits the bill ?????

The car weighs 1.4 tonnes but has a design capacity on its own of 2 tonnes together with the design capacity of the trailer at 2 tonnes puts your combination over the 3.5 tonnes limit of your B licence.

It's the design capacity is the killer for the B license..

Green farmer

alps wrote: »

The car weighs 1.4 tonnes but has a design capacity on its own of 2 tonnes together with the design capacity of the trailer at 2 tonnes puts your combination over the 3.5 tonnes limit of your B licence.

It's the design capacity is the killer for the B license..

Was looking at a way around it before, but it's abit messy.
1. Buy a single axel braked trailer plated at 1.5 tonne. Ifor do a P8 in a 5ft roof special.
2. Get a trailer manufacturer to downplate a 8x5 twin axel trailer to 1.5 tonne or you, but gets messy if you ever change car or want to carry anything heavier then 1.5t
3. Bite the bullet and sit the test

I begrudgingly took option 3 a few years ago after twisting the figures every way possible. Easiest thing to do in long run.

cute geoge

What is the law if you have a small trailer not plated ,but with proper brakes and hitch ??????

alps

cute geoge wrote: »

What is the law if you have a small trailer not plated ,but with proper brakes and hitch ??????

Good question...i don't know...I can see where you are coming from...😎

What I do know is that there are certain anomalies in the traffic law legislation....one of them is safety belts in the back of day a horsebox...the legislation covers the need for seatbelts in the front section of the truck based on its year of manufacture and advises for the the use of belts in the rear area, but does.not make them compulsory. Therefore while you may get a chyt load of abuse on the side of the road some day, if you had to go in front of the man with the wig, he would probably be none too pleased at everyone wasting time on the exercise.

It could just be possible that an unplated trailer could slip into this unleglislated territory....BUT the time isn't far away when we will have to test these trailers..

rangler1

alps wrote: »

Good question...i don't know...I can see where you are coming from...😎

What I do know is that there are certain anomalies in the traffic law legislation....one of them is safety belts in the back of day a horsebox...the legislation covers the need for seatbelts in the front section of the truck based on its year of manufacture and advises for the the use of belts in the rear area, but does.not make them compulsory. Therefore while you may get a chyt load of abuse on the side of the road some day, if you had to go in front of the man with the wig, he would probably be none too pleased at everyone wasting time on the exercise.

It could just be possible that an unplated trailer could slip into this unleglislated territory....BUT the time isn't far away when we will have to test these trailers..

Even FBD are telling farmers to do the trailer test....that they're not covered now. Has anyone asked lately
I know people doing the test because of the premiums in FBD and they want to move

alps

cute geoge wrote: »

What is the law if you have a small trailer not plated ,but with proper brakes and hitch ??????

Good question...i don't know...I can see where you are coming from...😎

What I do know is that there are certain anomalies in the traffic law legislation....one of them is safety belts in the back of day a horsebox...the legislation covers the need for seatbelts in the front section of the truck based on its year of manufacture and advises for the the use of belts in the rear area, but does.not make them compulsory. Therefore while you may get a chyt load of abuse on the side of the road some day, if you had to go in front of the man with the wig, he would probably be none too pleased at everyone wasting time on the exercise.

It could just be possible that an unplated trailer could slip into this unleglislated territory....BUT the time isn't far away when we will have to test these trailers..

Muckit

1. Muckit junior checks his trailer plating...
2. No need for the BE.... #SORTED!!!!!!

tanko

I think i see a problem there. Your legs hardly reach the pedals???

Muckit

tanko wrote: »

I think i see a problem there. Your legs hardly reach the pedals???

You are right. he's not even 2and half yet though. But boy can he steer. That's his cousins yoke. My lad has a berg junior.... but still can't pedal it!

Bellview

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

I'll have to do some thinking on this. I have a 10 year licence with 4 more years left but it seems I should only have gotten a 3 year licence so I could be making life a bit complicated to go getting a BE licence in the near future as it could compromise my current licence.

I had something similar last year . When I went to get be added to my license I got a 10 year license issued from date the be was added

20silkcut

Does anyone know what is involved in getting a BE license is the whole shebang again? Photos eye test birth certs theory test??

k mac

With regards to pulling a trailer that is not legal what is the penalty. Is it penalty points or a fine

rangler1

k mac wrote: »

With regards to pulling a trailer that is not legal what is the penalty. Is it penalty points or a fine

A neighbour had to get someone to collect his trailer, on the same checkpoint a lorry driver with a provision license had to stay where he was until he sorted a qualified driver......don't know what if any the penalty was

Green farmer

20silkcut wrote: »

Does anyone know what is involved in getting a BE license is the whole shebang again? Photos eye test birth certs theory test??

If you haven't done a theory test for your b licence on day one , then you'll have to do it now. That's what I had to do anyway as theory test wasn't invented when I originally did the b test. If you've a b licence pre '93 then you'll be entitled to the trailer licence

josip

Green farmer wrote: »

If you've a b licence pre '93 then you'll be entitled to the trailer licence

Do you mean you don't have to do a trailer test if you got your full license before 1993?

Green farmer

josip wrote: »

Do you mean you don't have to do a trailer test if you got your full license before 1993?

To the best of my knowledge, yes, as it was automatically included. Know a few who have it that way.

Nash Bridges

If anyone is wondering about the test details, I copied this from an old post:


In summary the BE test is a full car test done with a trailer and without the 3 point turn. Everything else from the typical car test is included. In addition there are some trailer related items which you must know or be able to do. I will point out what is different or additional to the typical car (B) test. If you want to do the BE test it is probably worth getting an Irish learner driver book to see what is involved in the normal (B) driving test. I had a full licence for 14 years before doing the Trailer test so the test had changed a bit in this time.

Before doing your driving test there are a number of bureaucratic hoops to jump through. Unless you passed your car (B) test recently you will need to do a theory test. This allows you to apply for a (BE) learner permit in person at one of the new NDLS licencing centres. Which in turn allows you to apply for your driving test. Unlike the (B) car test there currently is no 6 month waiting period. After you pass your test it is back to the NDLS licencing centre to get the BE category added to you licence.

Costs
Theory test €45
Learner permit €35
3 Lessons €200
Test Fee €85
Add category to licence €35
Total €400

I also got the Theory Test CD Rom for €20 and a Learner driver book by Brian O’Leary for €10.

Vehicle and trailer requirements
The vehicle used for the test must be at least 4.25m long or else a 4x4. Harder to fulfil are the trailer requirements.
Trailer with a design gross vehicle weight of at least 1,400kg but not exceeding 3,500 kg. The cargo compartment of the trailer must consist of a permanent, closed box body which is at least as wide and as high as the motor vehicle, and have a length of at least 2.4 metres. The trailer must be presented with a load of 30 four inch (100 x 220 x 450mm) solid concrete building blocks.
Also the trailer must have all lights working which will be checked and have an L Plate and matching number plate. I rented my instructors trailer for the test as this ensured that all requirements were in order.

Trailer specific Heights, Weights and facts to know which may be asked
There are a number of trailer specific facts and figures which may be asked. I was asked for quite a few of these before doing my test so they are worth noting and knowing.
Height of Trailer,
Towing capacity of vehicle braked and unbraked,
Train Weight,
Tyre Pressure
Nose weight of trailer.
The Max weight of trailer loaded is 3500kg for licence. For test the load must be over 800kg (30 Blocks).
If there is more than 1.5m between hitch and front of trailer a 30cm x 30 cm flag is needed.
The Distance between hitch and trailer cannot be more than 4.5m

Coupling and uncoupling procedure.
This will not need to be physically demonstrated but you may be asked the order of these tasks.

Coupling Trailer procedure
1. Safety Cable on 1st
2. Hitch on
3. Electric lights plugged in
4. Lock Jockey Wheel up high
5. Trailer handbrake off
6. Remove Chock from Wheel

Uncoupling Trailer procedure
1. Trailer Handbrake on
2. Chock on wheel
3. Unplug Lights Socket
4. Jockey Wheel locked down
5. Hitch Off
6. Unattach safety Cable

Reversing
Like the car (B) test reversing is probably the hardest bit of the test to master from a skill point of view. The (BE) trailer test involves reversing around a corner from a main road to side road. Some notes I made are listed below.
• Go slow, no time limit
• Hazards on, windows down
• Plenty of observation, Mirrors and looking all around
• Look before starting, before turning, from time to time. Check both mirrors.
• No need to be close to curb or corner. Keep trailer wide. Reset if necessary.
• Stop completely if there is any car or pedestrian around

Lessons and Instructors
BE instructors are not as easy to find as the Car instructors. You are best to find someone who gives commercial (trucks) instruction as well as car instruction if possible. Unlike the car there is no minimum amount of lessons required but I would recommend that you get at least one lesson and go from there. If they have a suitable trailer to rent meeting all the requirements this is also very handy. I got 2 lessons and a refresher immediately before the test. I also practiced with a trailer in between lessons. The hardest part of the test for me was overcoming all the bad habits I had picked up over the years, coasting, observation, etc. If you have done your car test recently you will probably find doing the trailer test easier.

TL:DR
Car & Trailer test is similar to car only test. Specific trailer needed for test. No lessons are required but will probably be needed. Likely to cost approx. €400 in total.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Green farmer wrote: »

If you haven't done a theory test for your b licence on day one , then you'll have to do it now. That's what I had to do anyway as theory test wasn't invented when I originally did the b test. If you've a b licence pre '93 then you'll be entitled to the trailer licence

I just rang about that. There was a small window to apply for that in 2013 and it was then closed off so everyone wanting a BE licence now will have to go through the test.

lakill Farm

stopped at a checkpoint in Mitchelstown /mallow road on Wednesday evening about 9pm. had 16ft tri axle ifor behind me.

Absolute 2 sound gardai. so first lad was all chat and I handed him the licence before he asked for it. he was going on about a big trailer and probably a bit big for a car licence. I said sure your right but you may look at the back of the licence. the young one said the trailer is plated for 2500kg. I said you may look again also as its 3500kg. I know well the fecker was testing me . I have a BE licence so I was sound.

He said feck off you still have a few hours left to get home. (North Westmeath)

rangler1

josip wrote: »

Do you mean you don't have to do a trailer test if you got your full license before 1993?

When the law was changed, a lot of us got a license not only for a trailer but for a small lorry less than 7500kg plus a 5000 kg trailer.......looking at some of the marts there's a few dealers confining themselve to that category too, a fourteen foot IW behind a 16ft lorry

lakill Farm

rangler1 wrote: »

When the law was changed, a lot of us got a license not only for a trailer but for a small lorry less than 7500kg plus a 5000 kg trailer.......looking at some of the marts there's a few dealers confining themselve to that category too, a fourteen foot IW behind a 16ft lorry

ageism at its best. older people often having full licence and haven't never sat a test .

I know lads who went to Mullingar office and was handed a full licence and they have licence to drive lorries and half them cant park a car. all them licences should be revoked and made sit a test now

Fair is fair

alps

lakill Farm wrote: »

ageism at its best. older people often having full licence and haven't never sat a test .

I know lads who went to Mullingar office and was handed a full licence and they have licence to drive lorries and half them cant park a car. all them licences should be revoked and made sit a test now

Fair is fair

Jealous..

rangler1

lakill Farm wrote: »

ageism at its best. older people often having full licence and haven't never sat a test .

I know lads who went to Mullingar office and was handed a full licence and they have licence to drive lorries and half them cant park a car. all them licences should be revoked and made sit a test now

Fair is fair

Ah go easy there now, I haven't crashed......much