Questions about metal dimmer and metal kitchen light - no earth wire.

Lekrub

I have a pretty basic questions about two light fixtures I want to do. Anything I have before was just simple swapping like for like so was straight forward.


1 - Metal dimmer.

I went to change a standard switch to a metal dimmer. There was earth connected running into the box from the wall, so no problem just connnect that to the plate. L1 -> L1 is fine, but my problem is there is two brown wires going to live in the current switch.

Do I put these two brown wires into the 'com' section of the dimmer?

2 - Kitchen metal Light.

Also went to replace kitchen light with a metal one. There is a earth in the light fixing but none in the ceiling? Just one brown wire/live going into one connection and three blue/neutral going into another.

Am I right in thinking it is not safe to install it without an earth? The house was built in 2007.

antiskeptic

Lekrub wrote: »

I have a pretty basic questions about two light fixtures I want to do. Anything I have before was just simple swapping like for like so was straight forward.


1 - Metal dimmer.

I went to change a standard switch to a metal dimmer. There was earth connected running into the box from the wall, so no problem just connnect that to the plate. L1 -> L1 is fine, but my problem is there is two brown wires going to live in the current switch.

Do I put these two brown wires into the 'com' section of the dimmer?

2 - Kitchen metal Light.

Also went to replace kitchen light with a metal one. There is a earth in the light fixing but none in the ceiling? Just one brown wire/live going into one connection and three blue/neutral going into another.

Am I right in thinking it is not safe to install it without an earth? The house was built in 2007.

On your first question. The two browns will be live in / live out - the live out goes on to become the live in in another switch. Effectively the live is being looped from switch to switch. Both into the C or Common of your new switch

Note that if you've led's on that switch, then the dimmer should be one suitable for leds. Otherwise you get poor dimming performance and buzzing from the dimmer switch.

On your second question. The metal lamp shouldn't be fitted without an earth fitted. There should be an earth provided to the lighting point but if not required for the old fitting (by virtue of it being a plastic one) it ought to have been tucked up above the plasterboard. Power down the circuit, grab a torch and have a look

Lekrub

antiskeptic wrote: »

On your first question. The two browns will be live in / live out - the live out goes on to become the live in in another switch. Effectively the live is being looped from switch to switch. Both into the C or Common of your new switch

Note that if you've led's on that switch, then the dimmer should be one suitable for leds. Otherwise you get poor dimming performance and buzzing from the dimmer switch.

On your second question. The metal lamp shouldn't be fitted without an earth fitted. There should be an earth provided to the lighting point but if not required for the old fitting (by virtue of it being a plastic one) it ought to have been tucked up above the plasterboard. Power down the circuit, grab a torch and have a look

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Hey Antiskeptic, thanks so much for replying. Good news about the dimmer switch. Can take care of that tomorrow.

Earlier on while I was at the kitchen light (all power off) I had a good feel around for an earth and could not find any more wires. Originally I thought it would of been in the old fixture but closed off.

Is it normal for wiring, old or new, not to have an earth? As the house is 07 I thought each would have this, but that was not based on much experience.

Is it possible there isn't an earth supplied and you just cannot fit any metal fixtures? Even with all wires well insulated etc I would still feel uneasy about it without earthing it.

bonzodog2

It is quite a long time since mandatory earths in lighting circuits became the norm. 2007 should definitely have them.

Lekrub

bonzodog2 wrote: »

It is quite a long time since mandatory earths in lighting circuits became the norm. 2007 should definitely have them.

Yea just having a quick search to find more info. Came across this from ECTI.

"Q: Do brass wall light switches and metal luminaires (light fittings) have to be earthed?
A: Yes, since January 1998 all wall light switches and lighting points must be earthed."

Unconnected but I also found this:
http://kellihers.com/news/new-twin-earth-wiring-rules/

I'm going to have to really check again for the earth in the ceiling. If not, 70 euro has just been wasted on a metal light.

Lekrub

Hey just an update on this and incase it helps anyone in the future.

There was another metal ceiling fixture in the kitchen. With the power off I took that down and saw there was a bare earth in the same sleeve as the brown live. So it was a thick grey sleeve, which contained a live and bare earth - no green, yellow sleeve.

So going back to the new light, I kept cutting the sleeve back until the earth appeared. Was probably about 1/2 inch. Connected it all up + works fine.

The only thing is, the previous light just had the connection box shoved up into a hole in the ceiling with the connector wrapped in insulation tape. The new light has a really thin ceiling mount so the connection block has nowhere to go but back into the same hole. I'd like to get that more secure/isolated/protected so will get on that.