No v5c cert available

makeorbrake

Waiting to hear back from someone in the UK on this but they're offering me a car that doesn't have a v5c cert. Is there any reasonable circumstance in which a car wouldnt have a v5c cert? Is there anything that can be used in lieu of a v5c? Cert of export or some such?

Under what circumstances does a dealer bring in a used car? i.e. do the use different paperwork?

bazz26

Not having the v5 registration cert is the same as a seller here not having the logbook. Is the seller the registered owner? How do you check that the car being sold isn't a ringer/clone? The car could also be stolen.

What reason is the seller giving for not having the v5? Lots of pain over here trying to VRT and register a UK import with no UK registration documents. I think they will accept a Certificate of Permanent Export but don't hold me to that.

makeorbrake

bazz26 wrote: »

Not having the v5 registration cert is the same as a seller here not having the logbook. Is the seller the registered owner? How do you check that the car being sold isn't a ringer/clone? The car could also be stolen.

What reason is the seller giving for not having the v5? Lots of pain over here trying to VRT and register a UK import with no UK registration documents. I think they will accept a Certificate of Permanent Export but don't hold me to that.

Seller says v5 has been lost but that HPI check - checks out.

challengemaster

Then why would they not just apply for a replacement cert?

Something is fishy.

bazz26

makeorbrake wrote: »

Seller says v5 has been lost but that HPI check - checks out.

Either tell the seller then you'll only buy the car when they get a replacement v5 or just move on to another car. You cannot VRT a car over here without the v5 or a certificate of permanent export from the DVLA.

amcalester

Replacement v5 costs about £20, and takes a week so no reason for the seller not to have one.

username?!

makeorbrake wrote: »

Waiting to hear back from someone in the UK on this but they're offering me a car that doesn't have a v5c cert. Is there any reasonable circumstance in which a car wouldnt have a v5c cert? Is there anything that can be used in lieu of a v5c? Cert of export or some such?

Under what circumstances does a dealer bring in a used car? i.e. do the use different paperwork?

Walk away. There is plenty of choice in the UK. Don't make it difficult on yourself. You will not be able to register the car without a V5c.

Marcusm

makeorbrake wrote: »

Seller says v5 has been lost but that HPI check - checks out.

If it's lost then they can get a new one in a few days. It would be incredibly stupid to purchase it without the documentation. You would never be able to purchase it here. No one in the U.K. Would buy it without the v5c either unless they were going to use it for a robbery.

makeorbrake

Thanks All. I wasn't really considering it - but knew the guy that queried it with me (i.e. would an export cert or some such be sufficient for import into ireland) as he says he keeps coming across cars without v5's. Just thought I'd find out a little more just in case but you've all confirmed what I suspected (and what makes sense!).

bazz26

The seller/owner would need to have been in possession of the car's v5 in order to send it off to the DVLA for them to issue a permanent export cert.

The whole thing feels wrong so best not get involved in that. No v5, no purchase.

makeorbrake

An extra twist to this...

Dealer is being offered cars from the manufacturers distributor in the UK - ex-pcp. There are some offered without v5's (It's believed that the v5 has simply been lost by the original owner). He could buy and register but then will show as another owner on the cars history. Might be able to get a better deal on one of those if we can figure out a safe way of doing it. I know this sounds like a likely story but believe he's genuinely trying to find out if they can be exported without v5's.

I guess I'll contact revenue and see if they can clarify.

mgbgt1978

Possibly repo'ed PCP Cars if they haven't got the V5's. Too coincidental that there are a few cars in one batch that don't have the V5's.
The distributor should be able to get replacement V5's as they are the legal owner. The V5 is a Certificate showing the 'Registered Keeper' AFAIK.

makeorbrake

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Possibly repo'ed PCP Cars if they haven't got the V5's. Too coincidental that there are a few cars in one batch that don't have the V5's.
The distributor should be able to get replacement V5's as they are the legal owner. The V5 is a Certificate showing the 'Registered Keeper' AFAIK.

Yeah, that was my first thoughts on it too (i.e. that they're repo's) but he reckons they're just lost...not that it really matters either way i.e. no cert makes ownership questionable. As to why the distributor can't be bothered getting the v5's, I can't quite get my head round that. It's not so much that they're there in one batch but they're on a list of available cars - in amongst others that have the v5.

bazz26

OP, I don't know why you are still entertaining this, just buy a car from a dealer who has the proper registration documentation. There are millions of cars for sale in the UK.

If this guy is dealing in repossessed cars that regularly don't come with registration documents then why doesnt know how to get a replacement and then just give it to you? How is he selling them to UK residences with no registration documents? How much cheaper is the car for all this potential pain and best of luck getting Revenue to respond to you?

makeorbrake

@bazz26: Yes, of course it's to do with getting a better deal. He's not - he's investigating it...same as I am. He's not selling them to UK residents - they're available to him to buy but he doesn't want to go there until he figures this out (the same as I am trying to do).

mullingar

If buying private it will raise a red flag alright to not have the v5 with the car.

But the v5 is not proof of ownership, it only states the registered keeper. V5's can get easily lost and can be easily replaced.

If your confident its not stolen/cloned or bought from a dealer/auction house, its easy to get a cert of export to register a car here. The V561 cert of permanent export is as valid as a v5 to vrt it.

To get the cert, just fill out this form:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-a-certificate-of-permanent-export
Takes about 2-4 weeks and will only be posted to a non-uk address

makeorbrake

Ok, so if it's an independent trade dealer, the cert of permanent export is filled out and submitted. I'd have an invoice stating Paid in Full.
What else would be needed in order to ensure that on handover I have ownership of the car? Is there a system somewhere to run a finance check on a car based on vin#?

If it takes longer than 1 month (the length of time that Revenue allow for the car to be registered), is there something I can provide them with -
to show that I'm waiting on that V561?

mullingar wrote: »

But the v5 is not proof of ownership, it only states the registered keeper. V5's can get easily lost and can be easily replaced.

If your confident its not stolen/cloned or bought from a dealer/auction house, its easy to get a cert of export to register a car here. The V561 cert of permanent export is as valid as a v5 to vrt it.

To get the cert, just fill out this form:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-a-certificate-of-permanent-export
Takes about 2-4 weeks and will only be posted to a non-uk address

mullingar

You can still book the vrt inspection and inform them your waiting on the export cert. You will have to return with it and then you can pay the fee and I would expect without any penalty

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

The seller/owner would need to have been in possession of the car's v5 in order to send it off to the DVLA for them to issue a permanent export cert.

That's not correct.
You don't need V5C to obtain Cert of permanent export.

11wingnut

Dvla are on line ,,fill out form wait about 10 days no charge could not be much simpler,, cert of permanent export .Bring to Spanish nct pay vrt .They only issue a log book with a name and address so one more owner..

relax carry on

mullingar wrote: »

You can still book the vrt inspection and inform them your waiting on the export cert. You will have to return with it and then you can pay the fee and I would expect without any penalty

Late penalty would apply if over the 30 days though in that case surely?

From the Revenue website "You will pay additional VRT if you fail to register the vehicle within 30 days. This usually arises where the documentary evidence is not produced at the time the vehicle is presented for registration"

Board.surf

I've an odd similar scenario. UK car in Ireland. Registered and owned for 5+ years here. I enquirer to the owner regarding the uk reg. they said a dealer in Dublin imported the car. I looked up the dealer. He specialising in crash repairs.

The car was never registered for export in the UK and is still showing on all their sites I.e no tax, no mot, as if it were never registered. Is the car previously crashed? Probably? And how did he get it in here and vrtd without the v5c? This seems so messy.

bazz26

How do you know it got here without the V5? The V5 is taken by Revenue when the car is re-registered here in Ireland and then issued an Irish log book. The old UK registration will be listed on the Irish log book, do a UK HPI check on that.

If there is still more questions than answers then walk away, plenty of other cars out there for sale.

Board.surf

bazz26 wrote: »

How do you know it got here without the V5? The V5 is taken by Revenue when the car is re-registered here in Ireland and then issued an Irish log book. The old UK registration will be listed on the Irish log book, do a UK HPI check on that.

If there is still more questions than answers then walk away, plenty of other cars out there for sale.

I did a check on Uk sites. The v5 was never issued and it's still showing up for outstanding tax and having no insurance in the Uk. I've read that if it's exported and a v5 issued, this shouldn't happen. I'm walking away. That's 2 from 2 on prius' that have been bad. Looking for a mk2 but it's a mine field out there.

bazz26

Strange as they only accept a V5c or Certificate of Export when re-registering it here.

Have you looked at importing one yourself? VRT is very low on hybrids.

Board.surf

Vrt is low but I don't have the time to travel to the UK (and I need to renew my passport). None in Northern Ireland currently, or at least the ones in ROI are cheaper.

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

Strange as they only accept a V5c or Certificate of Export when re-registering it here.

Have you looked at importing one yourself? VRT is very low on hybrids.

They used to accept vehicle salvage certificate as well in the past.

Marcusm

Board.surf wrote: »

I did a check on Uk sites. The v5 was never issued and it's still showing up for outstanding tax and having no insurance in the Uk. I've read that if it's exported and a v5 issued, this shouldn't happen. I'm walking away. That's 2 from 2 on prius' that have been bad. Looking for a mk2 but it's a mine field out there.

I'll guess it's just a screw up. When I moved back, I brought both my cars but DVLA only managed to de register one of them despite hiding both V5Cs to NCTS and sending the export portions to DVLA (remember I Was the registered owner int he UK). SO despite two data points, DVLA did not manage to rescind the registration. Human error, I guess. Doesn't mean that it wasn't exported correctly.