Mole ploughing vs open trench draining

vee_dubber

Me and my father do alot of open trench land drainage. We do 1.5-2ft drains and we do 4-7 foot drains with drainage stone under and above the 80ml pipe but recently I have been wondering about mole ploughing. What I was wondering is what are the pros and cons between open trench and mole plough draining? Iv tried googling this but haven't had much success. From what iv heard off people is that mole ploughing isn't very good, is mainly for draining golf courses and the likes and doesn't fair well on rough and wet land, also what if the mole plough hits into a stone or rock? What are your thoughts on the matter? Thanks in advance!

Nekarsulm

Hereabouts you'd generally need a combination of both.
Put in your main drains at the wet spots, running diagonally across the fall of the field to an open side drain, and then mole with the slope, so that the moles empty into them.

Obviously have the main drains a sufficient depth so that the mole doesn't hit the poly pipe.

Often a good diggerman will know better where to put drains to achieve the best results.

vee_dubber

Could you explain to me how mole ploughing works? Is a pipe left in the ground behind it to keep the tunnel open?

Nekarsulm

No, you have a vertical shaft of steel that slits the ground, on the bottom of which is a cylindrical steel shaft about 30 inches long and 2 inches in diameter, pointed at the front. On a swivel link to the rear of this shaft is an "expander", a cast steel or ceramic bullet shaped piece about 4 inches in diameter. This forms a "pipe" in the clay that can last for up to 10 years, depending on soil type. Moles are usually run about 16 to 20 inches deep, again depending on soil type, and about 36 inches apart.

Nekarsulm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9nT0DIn-0

tomwaterford

How much roughly is mole ploughing to get done

squinn2912

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Hereabouts you'd generally need a combination of both.
Put in your main drains at the wet spots, running diagonally across the fall of the field to an open side drain, and then mole with the slope, so that the moles empty into them.

Obviously have the main drains a sufficient depth so that the mole doesn't hit the poly pipe.

Often a good diggerman will know better where to put drains to achieve the best results.

This sums up my thoughts. It's effective but runs into big money with stones and another machine as well as the digger. Men swear by it and we tried it out on 8 acre field last year. Happy with the field but it is expensive

Siamsa Sessions

tomwaterford wrote: »

How much roughly is mole ploughing to get done

Between €40-60 per hour according to the Farmers Journal toolbox: http://www.farmersjournal.ie/toolbox/contractorcharges.php

The man in red and black

What about tile draining? Used to see piles of this when I lived in Ontario. Really popular for maize fields. Not sure would it work in Ireland? Looks like a great job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njFvJIulMno

_Brian

The man in red and black wrote: »

What about tile draining? Used to see piles of this when I lived in Ontario. Really popular for maize fields. Not sure would it work in Ireland? Looks like a great job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njFvJIulMno

We've done a bit of mole ploughing, have toyed with the idea of fabricating a fitting to lay pipe like that but it's one of those "some day" jobs.

vee_dubber

Still not sold on mole ploughing, surely a 2 or 4 inch mole would just cave in or get blocked. My father seems to think that a ripper would be a better job as it would break up the hard soil allowing better water soakach

Farmer_3650

https://youtu.be/hJyzPM3D6iA
Anyone have any experience with one of these?

_Brian

vee_dubber wrote: »

Still not sold on mole ploughing, surely a 2 or 4 inch mole would just cave in or get blocked. My father seems to think that a ripper would be a better job as it would break up the hard soil allowing better water soakach

It definitely helps open ground up and let air in.
We see increased grass growth immediately above moles
Where we've don it successive years ground is drier.

It's a sort of cheap and cheery improvement that can be done often but it's no permanent job.

If I had time I'd definitely do more but it doesn't replace the need for a few strategically placed shores.

We use a home made plough that cost €100 from Dd a few years ago.

Siamsa Sessions

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/hJyzPM3D6iA
Anyone have any experience with one of these?

Looks the job! Not sure you'd get that for €40-60 per hour though

We might do some mole work ourselves this year on the first field we're re-seeding. The ground is not overly wet but needs a once-per-generation tidy up. If the mole drain does the business for us, then we might do the same for the other fields that need some work. If it doesn't, then we'll have to look at other options.

I'm guessing the drainage is only the first step though. We'll need to get soil fertility right and maintain it too. And manage grass, thistles, docks, etc. over the coming generation.

_Brian

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/hJyzPM3D6iA
Anyone have any experience with one of these?

Doing a demonstration on a field with 2-3ft of nice stone free topsoil is fine, I'd like to see it "challenged" a bit more.

oxjkqg

RE drainage/mole drainage

There is still a mthod to this.
You need good, open, well maintained head drains.
Wet spots still need to be drained using tile drains and in my opinion the only way is a pipe and filling to the top with drainage stone.
The mole drainage can then be done in between. at close intervals, say 1m apart.
The timing of this is vital. if ground underneath is damp, you are just burning diesel.
The ground needs to be like concrete to create the tunnelling/shattering effect. i feel late summer seems to be the best time to do it.
The ripping could be done too, tend to do this when reseeding as you are tidying the surface after the disturbance with the power harrow. the subsoiling can be done more gently with minimal disturbance to the surface!
2 good contacts to talk to on it if you get in touch with are a farmer in Doonbeg co. clare and a farmer in west limerick who are the monitor farms for the teagasc heavy soil programs are have a lot of mole ploughing done.
Hope thats a bit of help

Reggie.

So what would be the difference in mole ploughing and say the erth subsoiler?
I meant to say do they give the same after effect

oxjkqg

Reggie. wrote: »

So what would be the difference in mole ploughing and say the erth subsoiler?
I meant to say do they give the same after effect

Same principle just closer spacing i suppose..

Attie

This subject has been discussed before on the boards.

mole plowing
I've wrote a piece on it to the page about 1/4 way down.

st1979

No point mole ploughing the wrong soil type. You need a clay type soil to create the mole otherwise it will collapse

_Brian

st1979 wrote: »

No point mole ploughing the wrong soil type. You need a clay type soil to create the mole otherwise it will collapse

And the conditions just right.

Dry going on top but ground deep damp enough to hold moles.

jimini0

I have deep open drains here. Between 4 and 6 inches of soil. Then the dreaded daub layer. Would I be able to mole plough this type of ground?

st1979

Coolfresian wrote:

Is it from November 1st? Order a good few tags before then and ul avoid it. I said it before I don't agree with involuntary levys. If we want to use their services we pay a subscription. Il pay one or the other but not both.

jimini0 wrote:

I have deep open drains here. Between 4 and 6 inches of soil. Then the dreaded daub layer. Would I be able to mole plough this type of ground?

Ideal for it. I made my own total cost 300. You need a 4wd to pull them

jimini0

st1979 wrote: »

Ideal for it. I made my own total cost 300. You need a 4wd to pull them

Have the tractor to pull it. Don't fancy trying to make my own. Might try find a second hand one.

vee_dubber

Think il buy a 3 row ripper, not sold on the idea of mole ploughing, plus I'd get more work out of farmers ripping land I guess, just need to get 4 new tyres for our valmet 8750 and we'll be sorted

GrasstoMilk

st1979 wrote: »

Ideal for it. I made my own total cost 300. You need a 4wd to pull them

Have you a few photos? Need one here for a few acres but don't want to spend 1000€ on one

greenfield21

Done some gravel moles here, a real job for heavy land.

lab man

greenfield21 wrote:

Done some gravel moles here, a real job for heavy land.

Have you your own gravel mole plough if so how much it cost

greenfield21

Contractor does it with a dozer. No way would I be able to pull one on our land with a tractor as its heavy hilly ground. In saying that I saw two local farmers doing a nice bit of moling with tractors. Lots of HP and very dry at that time though.

st1979

GrasstoMilk wrote:

Have you a few photos? Need one here for a few acres but don't want to spend 1000€ on one

Will get a few photos. But some of the things I done and made different from bought ones. 1. No shear bolt protection I made it strong enough that it stops tractor if you hit something big. Seen some with wear on the hole and breaking shear bolts too easy.
2 the leg is made from 12" digger bucket wear plate. Cause it is all hardened where as the bought one relies on a hardened v replaceable and standard steel for leg which wears. Only problem is it's on got an edge on one side. I taught it would be a problem but it was not.
3.Disc from an old plough broke atm but nice to have when it's on.
4 I got a 4" round bar and cut a long point which is welded on bottom of cutting edge as my mole.
5 bought a proper expander on short chain that is pulled by mole.

Have to wait until I start using it to pull in water pipe. As I always park it stuck in ground as it is safer. And photos won't be much good unless you see it all.
I got my geometry perfect for john deere linkage. It's pretty good behind my case but not quite as nice.

lab man

I bought a sub spoiler a good few years ago at cheffins auction in England for 20 str bought a bullet afterwards for about 100 euro I think find it a great job goes to a dept of about 20 inches .. I'm thinking of making a box to fit on top for pea gravel if someone has one a few fotos be great help

GrasstoMilk

st1979 wrote: »

Will get a few photos. But some of the things I done and made different from bought ones. 1. No shear bolt protection I made it strong enough that it stops tractor if you hit something big. Seen some with wear on the hole and breaking shear bolts too easy.
2 the leg is made from 12" digger bucket wear plate. Cause it is all hardened where as the bought one relies on a hardened v replaceable and standard steel for leg which wears. Only problem is it's on got an edge on one side. I taught it would be a problem but it was not.
3.Disc from an old plough broke atm but nice to have when it's on.
4 I got a 4" round bar and cut a long point which is welded on bottom of cutting edge as my mole.
5 bought a proper expander on short chain that is pulled by mole.

Have to wait until I start using it to pull in water pipe. As I always park it stuck in ground as it is safer. And photos won't be much good unless you see it all.
I got my geometry perfect for john deere linkage. It's pretty good behind my case but not quite as nice.

A few days in the workshop would have it made. I'd say I've about 40 acres I would pull it through ATM if I had one but after that it's only a 10 acre field would need it. Also have troughs I want to get into the middle of paddocks which it would be handy for

corglass

https://youtu.be/zqDHSBo49nc


Have a look at this, it seems very effective across all soil types. The drain cannot collapse as it's immediately refilled with stone. Less stone used overall too and no ripping up the ground as its 6 wheel drive.

Coolfresian

We made our own mole plough last year. Handy to make over a few days. Have one field to do with it. It was drained and reseeded 4 years ago but never ripped it and the soil is too compact for proper soakage. Would I need to plough it again after doing it? Find it brings up a lot of stone and takes a good bit of levelling after.

Nekarsulm

The makings of a mole plough here, if you had a van coming across from the UK.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mole-Plough-Spares-job-lot-/311922363916?hash=item48a0058e0c:g:gcAAAOSwhQhY38V3

This looks like a hum-dinger of a job, not expensive either, for what you're getting..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOLE-PLOUGH-/272791034080?hash=item3f839cd8e0:g:-EUAAOSwuLZY54kT

bogman_bass

I see that oldcastle co-op in north Meath have a gravel mole plough to hire