Granite dust or basalt dust.

pedigree 6

Just wondering did anyone here use granite dust or it's little brother basalt dust on land and harrow it into the soil?

I'm leaning towards basalt atm purely based on the likelihood of uranium in the granite. Or maybe that's the attraction for the bacteria.;)

Any info from farmers or stone nuts greatly appreciated.

yosemitesam1

How much would you apply? I'd be wary of spending much on it. Think about it, if you're soil is 20% clay that would mean you'd have over 250t of clay particles in the top 20cm/ha.
They would contain an awful lot of minerals and I would think would be a lot easier to break down then basalt or granite would

pedigree 6

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

How much would you apply? I'd be wary of spending much on it. Think about it, if you're soil is 20% clay that would mean you'd have over 250t of clay particles in the top 20cm/ha.
They would contain an awful lot of minerals and I would think would be a lot easier to break down then basalt or granite would

The thinking is that's it's a different kind of bacteria that breaks down granite and basalt and as it is exposed to water from rainfall as is normal in the soil and more bacteria more nematodes more food for plants. The finer it's ground the quicker it'll start working obviously.

I'm going to do a bit of reseeding and it's recommended to harrow it in well into the soil so I might kill two birds.

I saw a program on tg4 and they were in the deepest mine and they couldn't understand how bacteria were growing deep underground without food from organic matter. They came to the conclusion that the bacteria were feeding from minerals from the lava based rock that was never supposed to be at the ground surface e.g granite, when rainwater was running through cracks in the rock and the bacteria itself provided food for nematodes.

Now the thing with lava from the earth is it should be the same as my post on seawater. Really it would be every known mineral on earth all melted up together and cooled below ground for granite and above ground for basalt. So the theory is if your land is lacking in a very minor mineral that you don't even know about the all included granite or basalt should provide that deficiency and some people think your land is only as strong as your weakest mineral. Putting back what you never had. Think rich volcanic soil.

The thing that worries me about granite is the uranium part and that it dissolves into radon gas in the air and it also leaches with ground water. Not sure I need that.
Basalt less likely as it was formed over ground so no radon gas trapped and no uranium. That said there was an Austrian farmer scientist who was using granite dust and was able to start selling his produce soon after the Chernobyl accident when all his neighbours were still locked up. The granite dust allowed uranium munching bacteria to grow on his farm before the accident and then when the accident occurred they quickly gobbled up any contamination and his land was clear while the rest of the country was still blocked. He had his own testing equipment and had all the figures before the accident.

I think that jumbled mess of a post is most of what I grasp on it.

Edit: was thinking 3t/ac and tilled in well before lime on top.

J.O. Farmer

I don't think you need to worry too much about uranium and radon gas as the amounts will probably be so small as to make no difference if it's a health point of view your thinking.

Radon gas building up in an enclosed space like a house is an issue but that's because people stay in there for hours on end every day. Even then I think the risk is reduced by having windows open to properly air the place.

In the field I don't think it could build up to any kind of level that would cause an issue. Also I think it would be a long slow release that would further reduce the risk.

I could be wrong but I think you might be over thinking it although fair play for the research. I'd never heard of putting granite dust on land but your logic makes sense.

Mooooo

You can come and take my stones here for free if you want, you'll have to collect yourself tho

pedigree 6

Mooooo wrote: »

You can come and take my stones here for free if you want, you'll have to collect yourself tho

Nah don't want glow in the dark oul granite. I think I'd rather basalt and this is my trouble. I think all the basalt on the island is up around Antrim and the north.
I wonder would any of the quarries deliver this far? 20t would do me. I may find out.

pedigree 6

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I don't think you need to worry too much about uranium and radon gas as the amounts will probably be so small as to make no difference if it's a health point of view your thinking.

Radon gas building up in an enclosed space like a house is an issue but that's because people stay in there for hours on end every day. Even then I think the risk is reduced by having windows open to properly air the place.

In the field I don't think it could build up to any kind of level that would cause an issue. Also I think it would be a long slow release that would further reduce the risk.

I could be wrong but I think you might be over thinking it although fair play for the research. I'd never heard of putting granite dust on land but your logic makes sense.

Tend to overthink but it's better than not thinking at all.:D

I read that the decaying granite releases the uranium in the ground water and since the granite would be ground so fine it would be bound to be released in the water. So not sure I want to jeopardise any future wells in the field.

I see the epa did a study on drinking water and Wicklow was coming out fairly high and exceeding the European limits but some lower readings then allowed them not to issue a ban. The same for a public supply in Bagnelstown it was actually the highest in the country and they just barely allowed it. That's not to say there could be a high reading today and a bit lower when it's tested. So it's a problem I'd rather not make. That said maybe there's someone using it here and have no problems or using granite with no uranium?

Maybe linked maybe not but around kiltealy and surrounds in the shadow of the exposed granite of blackstairs mountain and mount Leinster it would be a cancer hotspot. Not so much around the white mountain where there's a soil cover and it's planted with trees.
Kiltealy and surrounds would be downwind of the mountains.

ganmo

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Nah don't want glow in the dark oul granite. I think I'd rather basalt and this is my trouble. I think all the basalt on the island is up around Antrim and the north.
I wonder would any of the quarries deliver this far? 20t would do me. I may find out.

sure ya'd be up and back to my place by the time ya'd be hitting newry

pedigree 6

ganmo wrote: »

sure ya'd be up and back to my place by the time ya'd be hitting newry

There's no basalt in Wicklow.
Is there?

Granite and quartzite I think.

ganmo

pedigree 6 wrote: »

There's no basalt in Wicklow.
Is there?

Granite and quartzite I think.

dublin ya !!

ya its all granite

cute geoge

Can we go back to the start here ???
What in gods name is wrong with your land that granite or basalt is going to improve and has anything like this being tried before

pedigree 6

cute geoge wrote: »

Can we go back to the start here ???
What in gods name is wrong with your land that granite or basalt is going to improve and has anything like this being tried before

The internet. An endless journey with millions of billions of websites, chat rooms, forums, youtube, bookface, twitter, wikipedias. But mostly linked together by search engines that you can enter a word and millions of results come back.:)

Anyway the spiel.:P

bogman_bass

Ok that's the marketing. Is there anything peer reviewed to back it up?

pedigree 6

bogman_bass wrote: »

Ok that's the marketing. Is there anything peer reviewed to back it up?

Simple answer. ??????

Edit: some people don't know what lime is let alone use it. Or how it's made and differences in lime. But still. ???

bogman_bass

I understand that that's a fair point to a large degree but at the same time there has been so much research to back up lime over the years and while farmers may not be reading the research papers on it they are getting the push from independent research groups like Teagasc and UCD

With a relatively unknown practice like this I would like to see some science to back it up.
3 things in particular:
1) does it actually increase bacteria numbers
2) are these actually beneficial bacteria?
3) does this actually lead to any improvement in yield or soil health?

If you are going ahead with it maybe contact teagasc and let them know. There might be somebody interested in taking before and after soil samples. Be nice to validate what you're doing with some data

st1979

Roadstone at arklow rock is basalt and a bit of granite. Don't know if that is closer to you than antrim. Arklow rock apparently used to be a volcano

yosemitesam1

bogman_bass wrote: »

With a relatively unknown practice like this I would like to see some science to back it up.
3 things in particular:
1) does it actually increase bacteria numbers
2) are these actually beneficial bacteria?
3) does this actually lead to any improvement in yield or soil health?

The easiest way to help there would be increase the amount of species in the sward (chicory, plantain, clovers etc, another grass or two if you really wanted to go mad), don't till and reduce artificial n

Waffletraktor

Would your soils not be shale/granite based in origin?
Let us know if you get glow in the dark milk!

bogman_bass

Another thing crossed my mind. Limestone is slightly water soluble, I doubt granite is

pedigree 6

bogman_bass wrote: »

Another thing crossed my mind. Limestone is slightly water soluble, I doubt granite is

It is. Especially with our rain.

Some granite monument stood for thousands of years in egypt and no damage. It was moved to London and within 200 years a lot of the features were smoothed out dissolved in the rain.

st1979

pedigree 6 wrote:

Some granite monument stood for thousands of years in egypt and no damage. It was moved to London and within 200 years a lot of the features were smoothed out dissolved in the rain.

Is that not the fact that for thousands of years there was no industrial revolution then about 200yrs ago we had the industrial revolution causing acid rain.
Which on a previous topic explains why we used to not need to apply sulphur but since we cleaned up our act re. smokeless coal and general emissions we now don't really have acidic rain.
So you may of missed the boat on wanting rain to dissolve your granite.
I would be very dubious of an economic benefit. Especially as roadstone in arklow is said to be some of the hardest rock in Europe. They used to export a lot of it to Germany on barges in the 80's due to it good wearing ability

pedigree 6

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Would your soils not be shale/granite based in origin?
Let us know if you get glow in the dark milk!

Shale where I am. So you could say plant based in origin.

There's a whole row/line of hills volcanic in origin from slieve coilte at kennedy park up to arklow alright but not sure it would have effected the soil here.
Blackstairs granite would be behind me as well but even from some residue brought here by glaciation I'd say that would be used by now.

Another case from someone close to the mountain lately diagnosed with cancer.
There's a townsland not far from here just beneath the blackstairs mountain and I'd say every household there had someone with cancer either treated or died from it.
Some people were blaming the rte transmitter on mt Leinster but these are too far from it. I'd blame the granite especially after reading about uranium dissolving into the groundwater in Bagnelstown. So it is in the granite here.
And the one thing all these incidents of cancer have in common is the proximity to the blackstairs.

:rolleyes:

Edit: just to get it all of my chest and be done with it. After Chernobyl the dept here were testing for uranium and the Wicklow mountains were coming back very high. So they said it came from Chernobyl and maybe some did. But the readings were still high after and not reducing. They had to admit after that it was just normal readings for the area and from the granite mountains.
So now who wants to build a house made from granite?:p

pedigree 6

bogman_bass wrote: »

Ok that's the marketing. Is there anything peer reviewed to back it up?

This is the best I've found yet....

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0001-37652006000400009
So it seems basalt is better than Granite dust ( why are some people going on about granite dust then :rolleyes: ) and for it to be made available faster, mixing with composted plants, dung, speeds it up - Just like the organic vegetable growers are doing.
Another point it acts as a soil pH improver.

So sin è.

pedigree 6

It is actually perfect for mixing into dungheaps. The heat and moisture of the heap would release the nutrients from the basalt dust and so should be available straight away when spreading the dung. Where as just mixing it into the soil it would only start releasing the nutrients in warm and moist conditions in the summer. So would be a longer term thing then. Then the question mark is would it be warm enough in the soil for this to happen?

The Seer centre in Aberdeenshire where they were using basalt dust were using it in their compost and then using that compost for their vegetables.

pedigree 6

It's the same theme so i'll stick it in this thread.

But this book was published in 1894.
You've probably heard other people mention this, Gerald Potterton in the journal for one. It's an interesting read and I don't think it would do anyone any harm to read it.

"Bread from Stones".
http://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/01aglibrary/010173.hensel.pdf

It'll pass a few minutes if nothing else.