Hospitality question - admission

Mack247

Hi, almost 20 years ago I took successful legal action against a local nightclub after being assaulted by a doorman. I had previously worked part time at the establishment during school holidays and had a very good relationship with the staff, other than the doormen who did not know me at the time of the incident (they did not live locally and there was no cross over on shifts). The owner who is referenced next didn't know me either - he used to be in occasionally when I was working but we never spoke a other than a brief hello as I was a minimum age junior. Approx. 10 years following the incident I went to the same establishment and was refused entry and told by the owner I was not welcome at any of the establishments owned by the family and this was for life. Additionally he said "can you come over here for a minute for a private conversation", which I did and he continued with "because of you I've had to spend a fortune on cameras" and then "go on hit me, hit me, I've been wanting to bury you for years". I turned around and walked away and that was the last I saw of him and last time I went near any of their establishments.
A further 10 years on, and I have been invited to a wedding of an old school friend, which is taking place at one of the family's establishments. Can they refuse me admission for this, and if so would that be considered unfair discrimination?

I love Sean nos

Mack247 wrote: »

Additionally he said "can you come over here for a minute for a private conversation", which I did

I don't understand why he would ask this question or why you would agree.

Mack247

To move the conversation away from the door where people were queuing up, as it was moving just a few meters to the side of where we were. It wasn't as though I walked down a dark alley with him and I wanted to hear his explanation as to why I was being refused entry. More likely it was him saying "you're not going in" and me saying "why not" and then "come over here for a private conversation", followed by being told I was not welcome for life and "go on, hit me..."

This was 10 years ago. Main points of that incident are 1) being refused entry, 2) being told not welcome for life, 3) being asked to hit him, either so he could have a fight with me claiming self defense or so that his cameras could capture me hitting him.

Samuel T. Cogley

He can refuse you for a claim it's not a ground of legal discrimination. Furthermore you generally have an implied licence to enter a business but in this case it's been explained to you that's no longer the case.

****ty but that's how I see it.

daheff

Mack247 wrote: »

Can they refuse me admission for this, and if so would that be considered unfair discrimination?

Yes they can refuse you admission, no its not unfair discrimination.


what are the chances the owner is on site for the wedding?

BattleCorp

daheff wrote: »

what are the chances the owner is on site for the wedding?

Yeah, but it would be fairly embarrassing to be put out of the place in front of a load of friends and relatives if the owner was there.

Del2005

Once they don't use any of the 9 discrimination cases they can refuse entry to anyone for any reason.

coylemj

OP, your friend who is having his wedding there might have some leverage in the situation, you don't appear to have any, especially when the proprietor has such a good memory.

I know it will be awkward but you should explain the situation to the friend who's getting married and ask him to raise the issue with the owner i.e. ask him straight out if you will be admitted.

Melendez

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BattleCorp

It would be a brave hotel to risk bad publicity for stopping someone from attending a wedding over something that happened 20 years earlier, something that wasn't the OP's fault (as determined by the courts).

As was mentioned before, maybe explain the situation to your friend and get them to have a word with the hotel. I'd be surprised if the hotel would want to upset the wedding party.

coylemj

Melendez wrote: »

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The management wouldn't see it that way and legally, there isn't. Accepting a booking for a party doesn't mean you are legally obliged to admit everyone who turns up.

It would be a different story if they took money from a bride and groom, knowing full well that the groom's brother was barred and then refused him entry on the day but we have to assume that they have no way of knowing that the OP is invited to this wedding.

OP knows he is barred so if he turns up and there is a scene, I can't see that the management will have anything to answer for. Obviously it would be embarrassing for the bride and groom but that's why I suggested that he get them to raise the issue and see if it can be sorted beforehand. But at the end of the day, if the owner sticks to his guns then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

nuac

Mod
You are around for at least 20 years, yet this is your first post here?

Very unusual for any one in business, especially in the hospitality business to carry a grudge for twenty years

hhmmmmmmmmmmm?

Del2005

nuac wrote: »

Mod
You are around for at least 20 years, yet this is your first post here?

Very unusual for any one in business, especially in the hospitality business to carry a grudge for twenty years

hhmmmmmmmmmmm?

I know it's bolded so Mod talk so I apologise if overstepping.


You'd be surprised how long a grudge can be kept by some people. There are families who haven't talked for decades over money so why wouldn't a business owner hold a grudge against a local who cost them lot of money, I'm assuming that this is a rural area or small town/community where everyone knows everyone.

Mrs OBumble

daheff wrote: »

Yes they can refuse you admission, no its not unfair discrimination.


what are the chances the owner is on site for the wedding?

Owner doesn't have to be on site.

Many pub owners now monitor the CCTV on their phone and call the staff with instructions to fix anything they see and don't like.

Mack247

Hi all, thanks for the feedback. This is a family run business with each establishment being run by a different family member - i.e. there is no single owner. The establishment where the original incident occurred has closed down in recent years (nothing to do with the said incident). I have messaged the person running the wedding establishment (hotel) to tell them out of courtesy that I have been invited and wish to attend, and to ask whether my presence would cause an issue for them, and to tell them that I wanted to avoid cause any embarrassment on the day to the bride/groom, their families, the hotel or myself. I explained that I did not want to get the groom himself involved in asking as I did not want to cause him any stress over it. I think its the best thing to do as I would not be able to enjoy the day if I was spending it looking over my shoulder expecting to be asked to leave at any moment. Plus, I don't think it is wise for any wedding hotel to be getting involved in striking off names from a wedding invite list.

Mr. Incognito

I doubt they remember.

Emailing them will ensure that they do

I think you have just talked yourself out of attending.

Mack247

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I doubt they remember.

Emailing them will ensure that they do

I think you have just talked yourself out of attending.

Maybe, but I live overseas and would be flying in for the wedding. I'm not going to do that if somebody is going to stop me entering or asking me to leave. If they clearly remember after ten years, then there's a good chance they will still remember after twenty years, especially when you are a former employee of the business and staff working and living in the area a long time will know your face.

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Mack247

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Because it has nothing to do with my family. It would be pretty lame to tell a good friend you will not be attending their wedding "in case" the owner of the wedding establishment doesn't want you there. Better to find out for sure instead.

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IITYWYBMAD

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The Op has stated that he wants to avoid any embarrassment, stress or hassle to the friend, who has invited him to his wedding. I don't see any reference to the OP hiding anything from his family or friends. What are you talking about?

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coylemj

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I doubt they remember.

Emailing them will ensure that they do

I think you have just talked yourself out of attending.

He sued them in the civil courts and won damages. It probably took two or three years to come to a hearing, the OP won and the family's public liability insurance probably skyrocketed for a few years after that. People have long memories, especially down the country where I suspect this happened.

Family-run business - 'hit my brother, you hit me'.

IITYWYBMAD

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You're assuming too much, based on too little information.

To answer you're question directly, I don't know.

However, the OP may have extenuating circumstances that you or I know nothing about. He asked a very straight question, got some answers and made a very wise choice, imo, by emailing the establishment to see if there would be an issue.

It's a million miles from 'hiding' anything from his family, as you've accused him of, and is in no way related to his original query.

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MysticMonk

Simple solution..tell whoever's wedding it is that you're barred for life and you can't go to the wedding.
You've already been told not to set foot in the place and after all that bad blood I really don't know why you'd want to.
Worst case scenario is that you get thrown out halfway through the night in front of everybody..even if you don't you won't be able to relax the whole time you're there.

Fred Swanson

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MysticMonk

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Agreed. Weddings are usually Shiite anyway and I dunno why you'd want to pay money to drink in an establishment that seems to hate you.

Mack247

MysticMonk wrote: »

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Be a man and tell them you can't attend.

Agreed. Weddings are usually Shiite anyway and I dunno why you'd want to pay money to drink in an establishment that seems to hate you.

Because having a catch up and laugh with old school friends at a wedding is fun (maybe you haven't been at any good weddings) and having a part owner in the background either on or off site who doesn't like me would not bother me too much, provided they have agreed not to create an issue over it.

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Mack247

Have since heard back - all ok, no problem at all. Thanks very much again to those who suggested I contact in advance, I can now go ahead and enjoy the day.

knucklehead6

Mack247 wrote: »

Have since heard back - all ok, no problem at all. Thanks very much again to those who suggested I contact in advance, I can now go ahead and enjoy the day.

good to hear

Samuel T. Cogley

Mack247 wrote: »

Have since heard back - all ok, no problem at all. Thanks very much again to those who suggested I contact in advance, I can now go ahead and enjoy the day.

Glad to hear it worked out.

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Silane

Unless he really wants to make an example of you, and stop you entering in front of everybody. If I really held a grudge that badly against somebody, that's what I'd do.

Pat Mustard

Mack247 wrote: »

Can they refuse me admission for this, and if so would that be considered unfair discrimination?

Mod:

Asking for legal advice, which is against forum charter. Please familiarize yourself with the forum charter before posting again.

Please do not open any new threads for a period of 4 weeks.