Question about Electric Vehicle batteries .....

LordSutch

Can you upgrade your battery from say a 20 kWh battery in (for example) a Renault Zoe > to a 40 kWh battery?

Generally speaking, can you upgrade your EV battery?

cros13

Yes, Renault and BMW both do official upgrades with your old battery taken as trade-in. Nissan will only allow you to swap for the same capacity but they will give you the latest version of that capacity of battery.

chewed

I'd assume an EV car battery depreciate over time like a phone battery? Also, when the car is turned off, is any power taken from the battery? e.g. if you had 20% left before you went to bed, would it still be 20% the next morning?

Water John

Battery won't leak power overnight. There is a small 12V battery also and that is topped by by the large battery if needed.
Battery can lose a cell or two after 5/7 years.

ELM327

chewed wrote: »

I'd assume an EV car battery depreciate over time like a phone battery? Also, when the car is turned off, is any power taken from the battery? e.g. if you had 20% left before you went to bed, would it still be 20% the next morning?

I've found a very slight drain in my leaf.
If I top up to a certain percentage and then stop the charge as soon as the percentage changes (on leafspy) there is a drop of <0.5% overnight.

I believe it is worse for Teslas (search "vampire tesla drain" on google)

cros13

ELM327 wrote: »

I've found a very slight drain in my leaf.
If I top up to a certain percentage and then stop the charge as soon as the percentage changes (on leafspy) there is a drop of <0.5% overnight.

I believe it is worse for Teslas (search "vampire tesla drain" on google)

Well in fairness that the telematics systems and sometimes battery heaters running. And there's also an additional effect where the battery gauge is effectively lying to you a little showing a slight drop in battery charge that's not actually real, I'd see this on my i3 particularly at low battery charge state... but I still have the same amount of actual range. What the software is actually showing on the dash in any EV is now the actual battery level, it's a calculated level based on a number of battery metrics filtered through a lot of programming. For example your battery is never actually 100% charged and never comes from the factory with 100% of it's rated capacity... is that a real problem? No it's not.

There is generally no issue leaving your car for months without charging or driving.... with some special exceptions like the Mk1 Leaf being left connected to a charging station for several weeks where the dc-dc doesn't run and the telematics drains the 12V battery.

reboot

Does anyone allow you to keep/ buy the old battery if you upgrade as some of the modules would be of use for several projects. Seems like I've paid for two battery already with the rental system?

grogi

reboot wrote: »

Does anyone allow you to keep/ buy the old battery if you upgrade as some of the modules would be of use for several projects. Seems like I've paid for two battery already with the rental system?

The upgrade price usually stipulates you leave your old one. They can be used in stationary applications.

ELM327

cros13 wrote: »

Well in fairness that the telematics systems and sometimes battery heaters running. And there's also an additional effect where the battery gauge is effectively lying to you a little showing a slight drop in battery charge that's not actually real, I'd see this on my i3 particularly at low battery charge state... but I still have the same amount of actual range. What the software is actually showing on the dash in any EV is now the actual battery level, it's a calculated level based on a number of battery metrics filtered through a lot of programming. For example your battery is never actually 100% charged and never comes from the factory with 100% of it's rated capacity... is that a real problem? No it's not.

There is generally no issue leaving your car for months without charging or driving.... with some special exceptions like the Mk1 Leaf being left connected to a charging station for several weeks where the dc-dc doesn't run and the telematics drains the 12V battery.

That's why I use leafspy as it shows the true SOC.
Generally in the high 90's when fully charged and around 12% when fully discharged according to the display in the binnacle

LordSutch

So the answer is ...

Yes you can upgrade, but only with BMW or Renault.

Presumably the New elecyric Mini will accommodate battery upgrades too?

My wife really like the Zoe (with a 40 kWh battery), thinking of getting a 'nearly new' one from across the water.

reboot

grogi wrote: »

reboot wrote: »

Does anyone allow you to keep/ buy the old battery if you upgrade as some of the modules would be of use for several projects. Seems like I've paid for two battery already with the rental system?

The upgrade price usually stipulates you leave your old one. They can be used in stationary applications.

Stationary applications​, meaning, another chance to buy again?

grogi

reboot wrote: »

Stationary applications​, meaning, another chance to buy again?

Power-walls etc.

Orebro

There is also the case of a refurb (for want of a better word!). A couple of companies in the UK have popped up, and in the case of a Leaf, for £1500 they return your pack to 90%+ health.

reboot

Leaf firmware in Japan allowing car to connect to the house,BBC 5 live, last Wednesday.

cros13

It's just easier (and in many cases cheaper) to buy a new powerwall outright with a 10 year warranty.

Second use cells are great for large scale projects, but the pricing of BMW and Nissan's inverters/enclosures for domestic use of 2nd use packs or repackaged cells is more than Tesla charges for a brand new powerwall.

reboot

Where's the fun in that,? I don't get to blow things up on pointless projects.
But your right of course, I'm just hurting my head with expensive thought experiments I have my own Wall, lead acid and lipo. Thanks