I think I bought a lemon..

jacksie66

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exaisle

jacksie66 wrote: »

Hey guys. So I'm in a fair bit of a predicament. I bought a 06 Mazda 6 1.8 last Monday. Checked out the car at the time, took it for a drive etc. I'm pretty good with cars so I knew what I was looking for. Checked the oil cap for gunk, checked the coolant etc. All seemed good at the time so I went ahead and bought it. Fast forward to today and I'm convinced I bought a lemon. I went to change the plugs the other day and found that the spark plug reservoirs were full of oil, one even covering the plug itself. When I pulled the plugs I found them in a bad way. Black and discoloured, one even had a broken electrode. I'm guessing the rocker cover gasket is gone. Also in the last day or 2 lots of blue smoke has been coming out the exaust. Just today on the way home from work the engine light came on and the car started shaking badly.
The guy I bought it was seemed very genuine. And oldish guy and his wife who'd owned the car since brand new.
I'm guessing I don't have a comeback since I bought it second hand. Any suggestions or is the car for scrap. Cheers lads.

Bring it to a mechanic rather than speculate. It's possible the broken electrode on the spark plug (beats me how it's firing on all cylinders) is the cause of the smoke and that it broke after you bought the car. However, you might just need to give it a service. A rocker cover gasket and a service kit is hardly the end of the world in terms of expense.... Should I ask...did you check its service history? For somebody who "knows a bit about cars" I'd have though that this would be a clincher. Sounds to me like it hasn't been serviced...
However...it may not be as bad as you imagine...

Del2005

Private sale no comeback unless the vehicle is dangerous, and even that is hard to prove. Bring it to a garage and get a quote for repairs.

Bit late now but always bring a 2nd set of eyes with you when buying a car. I've a decent knowledge of cars and all I've bought have been sound, but I still bring a person with more knowledge than me when buying. Too easy to miss something when buying

jacksie66

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Toyotafanboi

Sounds just like the rocker cover gasket is leaking, they are no big deal, even a DIY novice could swap that out. If touve been messing around in that area and havnt cleaned out the oil etc there could be a number of things causinf the misfire, none of which could be a big deal.

Those 1.8s are well known to be soft as buttee. It probably is excessive engine wear causing the blue smoke, which there's probably no coming back from if you bought the car for bangernomics money.

BorneTobyWilde

So when you took out spark plugs oil dropped into the hole as oil was gathering due to a leak around the plug area. Probably will burn off.

jacksie66

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Atlantic Dawn

Have a read of this thread, also a Mazda 6
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057741589

Outcome was...

Not Quite A Hipster wrote: »

Just an update on the car for anyone interested. It's had the engine fully reconditioned ( timing chain, head gasket, pistons, piston bearings, cam shaft bearings, valves, numerous seals). I've probably left some of the bits off the list, I don't have the invoice to hand.
Also an unlimited mileage 12 month warranty on the engine work so I'm quite happy with that.
It's running and sounding great, so far I'm very happy with the work.
So in the end (all going well) the car with the engine reconditioned has cost me around the same price as what a dealership may have charged had I gone down that road instead of purchasing it privately.

JohnBoy26

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Have a read of this thread, also a Mazda 6
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057741589

Outcome was...

I wouldn't spend 1500 on a rebuild on one of these tbh. These cars aren't worth a whole pile so I think id cut my losses but in the op's case I don't see what effect it has on the cars reliability apart from using oil and smoking a bit.

Id continue using the car as is unless it's going through a massive amount of oil and very smokey.

jacksie66

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Toyotafanboi

It's a shame the 6's are crap as they are a very good looking car IMO, compared to Mondeo/ Passat etc.

Nekarsulm

Would pulling the plug leads off have caused one of them to finally break down? Could explain the mis-fire/shaking. (but not the blue smoke)

ankles

Just a small vote in favour of Mazda 6's. 06 1.8 petrol. Recently privately sold my own one, owned from new, serviced every year, 180,000km on it. Lovely car, ran really well. Had my reasons for selling it and got bugger all for it really but there was more than a twinge of regret as she drove away. Years of faithful service and literally never a moment's trouble. Beginning to need oil towards the end but you're talking a quick check every few months. And they are a lovely drive

OldMrBrennan83

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JC01

Your mechanic shouldn't "think" the rings are gone. A quick wet and dry compression test will definitively tell you if they are or not. That'd be my next port of call.

jacksie66

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SCOOP 64

Id say he knew ,don't see much hope of a refund.

boardsuser1

Hard a 1.4 Bora a few years ago with the same symptoms described in the OP.

Oil in the spark plug wells, 2 of the 4.

Thick smoke out the back.

Needless to say she was scrapped.

3rdDegree

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's a shame the 6's are crap as they are a very good looking car IMO, compared to Mondeo/ Passat etc.

These are certainly not crap!

Had one for 11 years with 180,000 km on it and it's the best and most reliable car I've ever owned. Still going great. Mind you, it was looked after very well and serviced regularly. And I am talking about the petrol here, NOT the diesel!

JohnBoy26

3rdDegree wrote: »

These are certainly not crap!

Had one for 11 years with 180,000 km on it and it's the best and most reliable car I've ever owned. Still going great. Mind you, it was looked after very well and serviced regularly. And I am talking about the petrol here, NOT the diesel!

The petrol version is a fairly sh1te car too tbh. They are rust buckets.

OldMrBrennan83

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JohnBoy26

Patww79 wrote: »

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No they are all made in the same place and all rust badly, not only tge 6 but all mazdas.

jacksie66

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road_high

I'd say that ex owner barely drove the car? Now it's probably getting a bit of hard driving, things are cropping up. Doesn't sound like it was well serviced at all.

Del2005

ankles wrote: »

Just a small vote in favour of Mazda 6's. 06 1.8 petrol. Recently privately sold my own one, owned from new, serviced every year, 180,000km on it. Lovely car, ran really well. Had my reasons for selling it and got bugger all for it really but there was more than a twinge of regret as she drove away. Years of faithful service and literally never a moment's trouble. Beginning to need oil towards the end but you're talking a quick check every few months. And they are a lovely drive

Did you sell to the OP

Del2005

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Id say he knew ,don't see much hope of a refund.

For a private sale there are no refunds. If you want the chance of a refund buy from a dealer.

Plenty of threads here of people selling cars and getting a call a few days later that the car is fecked even though it was perfect before the sale. Once the money changes hands it's the buyers problem what happens. The OP was unlucky that they bought a lemon which may have been avoided by bringing a mechanic, but plenty of genuine sellers get calls from scamers trying to get their money back.

166man

If the car wasn't overly expensive it could be worth driving it until it stops and getting something else. No point throwing money at it.

Sounds like a genuine owner but possibly a very dodgy mechanic...

3rdDegree

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The petrol version is a fairly sh1te car too tbh. They are rust buckets.

Possibly, but not in my experience.

Cee-Jay-Cee

jacksie66 wrote: »

I just got off the phone with the lad I bought it off. He was shocked to hear about it. Says it never gave him an ounce of trouble in the years he's owned it. I told him that the old plugs were in a very bad way. Didn't seem to believe me. What to ye think..

It's possible that he didn't know. If as you say he was an old fella then he most likely left it to some mechanic for its services and he may have paid for a full service but may not have got one. I've heard of it happening before, mechanics saying they changed oil filter and plugs but done none of them yet charged plenty. With a car like a Mazda 6 driven by some aul fella who probably only does a few thousand miles a year and generally drives nice and easy, the mechanic thinks the oil/filter and plugs will do grand for another year.

JohnBoy26

3rdDegree wrote: »

Possibly, but not in my experience.

Take a look underneath

grogi

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Take a look underneath

That's a much bigger issue on UK imports than on Irish cars. While the Irish ones might use some paint corrections, the UK imports don't take the road salt well.

Patww79 wrote: »

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That would seem true. Before 2008 very few diesels would sell here - and majority of them on the road here would be UK imports.

3rdDegree

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Take a look underneath

I have, it's fine.

jca

See what it's like after the proper service. As was said earlier if the smoking continues a wet/dry compression test or better again a leak down test is your next move. Actually, scrap that suggestion and get the tests done first, no point in buying oil filters plugs etc if the engine is on its last legs.

rex-x

jca wrote: »

See what it's like after the proper service. As was said earlier if the smoking continues a wet/dry compression test or better again a leak down test is your next move. Actually, scrap that suggestion and get the tests done first, no point in buying oil filters plugs etc if the engine is on its last legs.

Wet and dry compression test will tell you nothing as it's the oil control rings that fail on these not the piston rings themselves. Only way to know for sure is disassembly but if it's shooting clouds of smoke then sorry op but the writing is on the wall, these are notorious for it

jacksie66

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honda boi

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It's possible that he didn't know. If as you say he was an old fella then he most likely left it to some mechanic for its services and he may have paid for a full service but may not have got one. I've heard of it happening before, mechanics saying they changed oil filter and plugs but done none of them yet charged plenty. With a car like a Mazda 6 driven by some aul fella who probably only does a few thousand miles a year and generally drives nice and easy, the mechanic thinks the oil/filter and plugs will do grand for another year.

Yep happened to me.
Bought a car from a genuine lad,test drove it seemed good.
2 weeks after buying it engine/turbo blew.
Oil was so bad was the reason it blew.
He had receipts from garages changing oil/filter and egr a few months before he sold it. Obviously the garage didn't do a thing.

1874

rex-x wrote: »

Wet and dry compression test will tell you nothing as it's the oil control rings that fail on these not the piston rings themselves. Only way to know for sure is disassembly but if it's shooting clouds of smoke then sorry op but the writing is on the wall, these are notorious for it

How did the car manage to trundle on and then unfortunately go when the OP bought it, could it be helped to survive?
I like the look of those cars but Ive heard a few things about them that concerns me enough to not consider them, maybe you just hear whats bad though.

rex-x

1874 wrote: »

How did the car manage to trundle on and then unfortunately go when the OP bought it, could it be helped to survive?
I like the look of those cars but Ive heard a few things about them that concerns me enough to not consider them, maybe you just hear whats bad though.

Using really thick oil may help alleviate the issues for a bit but there is no replacing worn metal. My experience is they aren't a good buy over 10 years old I have yet to see a good one at decent mileage

JohnBoy26

grogi wrote: »

That's a much bigger issue on UK imports than on Irish cars. While the Irish ones might use some paint corrections, the UK imports don't take the road salt well.



That would seem true. Before 2008 very few diesels would sell here - and majority of them on the road here would be UK imports.

Mazdas rot in this country too. Whatever steel mazda are using it is poor because they rust horribly, even the suspension and steering components. They are one of the worst modern cars in this regard. Nearly every other car from the same era fares much better against rust.

JohnBoy26

3rdDegree wrote: »

I have, it's fine.

You couldn't of looked very well or someone added some underseal at some stage because all of these rust underneath and usually start at a very young age.

166man

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

You couldn't of looked very well or someone added some underseal at some stage because all of these rust underneath and usually start at a very young age.

Would you cop on a bit? It's his own car and he's telling you its not rusty - why can't you drop it? Not everyone has a love for rust protection like your good self Johnny.

jca

166man wrote: »

Would you cop on a bit? It's his own car and he's telling you its not rusty - why can't you drop it? Not everyone has a love for rust protection like your good self Johnny.

Certainly true of the car in question... Pound to a pinch of schit there's rust in it.

road_high

166man wrote: »

Would you cop on a bit? It's his own car and he's telling you its not rusty - why can't you drop it? Not everyone has a love for rust protection like your good self Johnny.

Slight obsession with Mazda's (how terrible they are) and Mazda rust...seen it all here before on other threads.

1874

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Mazdas rot in this country too. Whatever steel mazda are using it is poor because they rust horribly, even the suspension and steering components. They are one of the worst modern cars in this regard. Nearly every other car from the same era fares much better against rust.

I always considered this a Ford problem, I like Fords, had one from new before but as it got past 10 yrs it started to develop rust, still Ive seen some clean examples around. My skoda has rust underneath and on the subframe and a centre bracket, but it was a UK import, its just surface corrosion. Being concerned it might be highlighted at an NCT, to prevent further deterioration and to let me squeeze a few more years out of it, I brought it to a body shop and got them to wire brush it and reseal it, they said its common on mk1's, I guess all cars to a point are going to rust, the main part of the chassis is fine and the underseal hasnt even been damaged.

I like the OPs Vectra style, is there an issue with 1.8 (or even 1.6) throttle body's? Its a car Ive considered buying, spacious looking but dont really like the dash. If I replace I plan to upgrade by a big leap in years in one go, but sub certain value (3kish) cars appeal to me when they are clean low mileage, Id take the hit on insurance over re-payments on the car.

Something Id fear myself regarding getting a second hand car, ie a lemon, hopefully it works out for the OP, I couldnt do that in a sale to someone, I know Id be sick if it happened to me and who can take the hit to shell out a few grand for it to be worth little or nothing, Id be surprised if the seller didnt know something, is there any protection for a buyer in terms of insurances?? Im guessing not or people would avail of them frequently or it would be manipulated by unscrupulous people to cash in on worthless cars , Ive heard such things are available in dealers, but have also heard that such actual policies are worthless within their small print.
Best insurance? get a paid for opinion on a secondhand car? even with knowledge of cars Id consider this, but above a certain cash value, even though dealer prices can be a rip off, I think I just couldnt go private sale, maybe nothing above 4k or 5k.

corks finest

jacksie66 wrote: »

I've been thinking about it all day. I've decided to get rid of the mazda and go back to my vectra. The vectra just needs a new throttle body so I'm just gonna bite the bullet and do it. Otherwise the car is perfect. I went for the mazda because I thought going up a few years makes sense with insurance and whatnot.

that's hard lines

kirving

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Those 1.8s are well known to be soft as buttee. It probably is excessive engine wear causing the blue smoke, which there's probably no coming back from if you bought the car for bangernomics money.

Is this the same 1.8 engine used by Ford and Volvo?

If so, I bought a 1.8 Volvo partly based on talk here that it was considered very reliable due to it's older less refined design than some of the newer models, and also that it used a timing chain instead of a belt. To be fair, it's been relatively trouble free and approaching 230k km.

grogi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Is this the same 1.8 engine used by Ford and Volvo?

If so, I bought a 1.8 Volvo partly based on talk here that it was considered very reliable due to it's older less refined design than some of the newer models, and also that it used a timing chain instead of a belt. To be fair, it's been relatively trouble free and approaching 230k km.

The 1.8 was used by Fords (from 2003 Mondeo), but was never found in Volvo.
Volvo used only 2.0 from the same family though.

JohnBoy26

1874 wrote: »

I always considered this a Ford problem, I like Fords, had one from new before but as it got past 10 yrs it started to develop rust, still Ive seen some clean examples around. My skoda has rust underneath and on the subframe and a centre bracket, but it was a UK import, its just surface corrosion. Being concerned it might be highlighted at an NCT, to prevent further deterioration and to let me squeeze a few more years out of it, I brought it to a body shop and got them to wire brush it and reseal it, they said its common on mk1's, I guess all cars to a point are going to rust, the main part of the chassis is fine and the underseal hasnt even been damaged.

Fords are decent in comparison and skoda's like the 1998-2005 octavia were very well sealed and usually dont rust but subframes and wishbone arms will have a layer of rust in a salty environment. It's rare to see irish cars with that type of rust.