Looking for advice for odd Leaving Cert situation

dubsli97

Hello there.

I'm going into 4th year next year and am getting impatient and eager to begin Leaving Cert subjects. Transition Year in my school is mandatory and my parents are very much in favour of me doing it so skipping it is not an ideal option.

I am hoping to study two Leaving Cert subjects during 4th year and take the 2018 papers alongside the other LC students. The first subject would be Japanese and the second would either be Physics or History. For the second subject I would take morning or evening classes in the Institute outside of school. I know that both of these subjects have practical elements, if I am up to date - mandatory experiments for Physics and a written research project for History. Additionally, there is an oral element for Japanese. I am unsure of how to complete those elements when I am not taking the full LC - any advice on this would be much appreciated.

In addition to this I plan to read some of the Classical Studies material during this time without taking the exam at the end of the year. This would leave me with an extensive knowledge of 2 subjects and a decent headstart for 3 (Classics, English and Irish). After 4th year I would review my results for the two subjects and decide whether to take the 2 year course normally or attempt to prepare for a full set of LC exams at the end of 5th year (if I picked the latter option I would move to the Institute and request to take 6th year classes as they cover full courses in 6th year there - so technically I would just skip 5th year altogether).

Does anyone know if this is even possible? I know people can sit single subjects but I have only ever heard of this being done by people who have already sat the full LC, not by people who are preparing for it.

Advice on any aspect of this post would be fantastic. I'm expecting a lot of negativity towards the idea but would appreciate anyone's two cents on the matter.

Many thanks

spurious

I think there is some regulation about the amount of time that has to have passed since the JC, precisely to stop this sort of thing. TY is not supposed to be used for obvious LC preparation.

I will look and see can I find the rule.

**edit**
The Commission will not accept entries from persons for the Leaving Certificate examination in the year after their Junior Certificate examination or in the year after they have completed Transition Year.

Thre Institute should tell/have told you this. You can of course pay them money and sit in their classes, but the Commission will not let you enter for the exams before you are allowed to.

dubsli97

Cannot blame the Institute for this, I was on a frolic of my own.
I can't figure out why this rule would be in place but I'll waste no more time thinking about it.
Thanks for your response, saved me a lot of research.

Delphinium

It was possible to sit subjects after one year in the late sixties. People used to sit pass maths and Latin just for insurance. But you can no longer do it.
Can you change schools? If transition year must be endured, treat it as a challenge and get the very best out of every experience. Ask for activities which interest you and help organise these if it helps.
Be proactive and do a good work experience which will look good on a cv.
One other thing which I am reading into your post is that you are probably a high achiever, and may be a bit impatient with others. If I am right, use the year as an opportunity to hone your people skills. That will stand to you in whatever your future holds.
Good luck with whatever you do. It is marvellous to see such ambition.

carefulnowted

Fair play to you for your determination/ambition anyway! Since you can't do what you originally planned, why not use TY as a way to pad out the less-ambitious areas of your CV? You could volunteer, develop a new hobby, start a new sport, create something new in your community, try out coding etc, etc.

You have to do TY anyway, make the most of it. Don't do what half your class will do: sit around and complain about how there's nothing going on (though you don't seem like the type for that anyway!)

Very best of luck.

ZeroThreat

I opted for the transition year the first year it was introduced, is it compulsory in all or most schools now?

dubsli97

Delphinium wrote: »

It was possible to sit subjects after one year in the late sixties. People used to sit pass maths and Latin just for insurance. But you can no longer do it.
Can you change schools? If transition year must be endured, treat it as a challenge and get the very best out of every experience. Ask for activities which interest you and help organise these if it helps.
Be proactive and do a good work experience which will look good on a cv.
One other thing which I am reading into your post is that you are probably a high achiever, and may be a bit impatient with others. If I am right, use the year as an opportunity to hone your people skills. That will stand to you in whatever your future holds.
Good luck with whatever you do. It is marvellous to see such ambition.

Thank you very much for your kind and informative message. You read my personality well! I think I'll be staying in my current school and yours is advice to which I should definitely heed during TY. My people skills most certainly need improving. I have secured a couple of work experience placements which I am very much looking forward to. Thanks again.

carefulnowted wrote: »

Fair play to you for your determination/ambition anyway! Since you can't do what you originally planned, why not use TY as a way to pad out the less-ambitious areas of your CV? You could volunteer, develop a new hobby, start a new sport, create something new in your community, try out coding etc, etc.

You have to do TY anyway, make the most of it. Don't do what half your class will do: sit around and complain about how there's nothing going on (though you don't seem like the type for that anyway!)

Very best of luck.

Many thanks for the kind words. I will try to make the most of TY - a relaxing year will be nice - and these suggestions sound inviting to me. Posts like this make me much more optimistic about the whole thing

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I opted for the transition year the first year it was introduced, is it compulsory in all or most schools now?

I believe it is not mandatory in most schools and some schools actually somewhat encourage skipping it. But I'm not too informed on the matter.

aon1998

I know of people who went to the institute and sat English & maths in 5th year. I think they can do it because although it's called Transition Year, it's not really.

spurious

aon1998 wrote: »

I know of people who went to the institute and sat English & maths in 5th year. I think they can do it because although it's called Transition Year, it's not really.

The Institute is not a school. It doesn't surprise me they do not adhere to the rules.

hasdanta

Just. Enjoy. Transition. Year.

Senna

The world is full of people who did well in school but didn't take on any of the other important elements of school.
Take TY as a year to round yourself out, take up some new pass times, make new friends, date more girls/boys etc. Those are the things that make the rest of your life that much more enjoyable, it's all about balance and its only later in life that you realise what you were missing.

judeboy101

Why are your parents forcing you to do a year you don't want to do? Seems counter productive.

Senna

judeboy101 wrote: »

Why are your parents forcing you to do a year you don't want to do? Seems counter productive.

In fairness, it sounds like the OP is certainly deadicate and focused to achieve a good leaving cert, but that's is not the be all and end all, maybe the parents think the OP could benefit from a year away from studying and focusing on other things that are equally important.

Delphinium

The Institute is not breaking the rules. The students are two years post Junior Cert when finishing fifth year if they have done transition year. It may not be the spirit of the law but it is allowed.

dubsli97

hasdanta wrote: »

Just. Enjoy. Transition. Year.

Thanks for the advice

Senna wrote: »

The world is full of people who did well in school but didn't take on any of the other important elements of school.
Take TY as a year to round yourself out, take up some new pass times, make new friends, date more girls/boys etc. Those are the things that make the rest of your life that much more enjoyable, it's all about balance and its only later in life that you realise what you were missing.

You make a very good point. I'm just looking forward to the more advanced stuff and eventually university - but there's no reason why I can't enjoy TY as well.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Why are your parents forcing you to do a year you don't want to do? Seems counter productive.

They aren't forcing me to do anything. They just feel like I'm a bit young to be going straight into 5th year. If I did that, unless I repeated a year, I would have no choice but to sit the leaving in 2019. The route I described in the first post would give me a taste of it and I would still have the option to do it regularly in 2020 if I felt I wasn't ready.

spurious

Delphinium wrote: »

The Institute is not breaking the rules. The students are two years post Junior Cert when finishing fifth year if they have done transition year. It may not be the spirit of the law but it is allowed.

The Commission will not accept entries from persons for the Leaving Certificate examination in the year after their Junior Certificate examination or in the year after they have completed Transition Year.

The rules are clear.

dubsli97

The Institute's 4th year is advertised as an alternative to Transition Year, so an exception is made for them.

"The Institute of Education’s 4th Year programme offers students a unique alternative to Transition Year. "

"Subjects such as Irish, Maths and one foreign language are ‘Requirement Subjects’ for entry into most Irish 3rd level colleges. If a student starts a requirement subject in 4th year, they may wish to consider sitting the Leaving Certificate exam in it at the end of their 5th year, as they will have completed 2 years of a senior cycle at this point."

- straight from their website.

Granted this doesn't help my case, but I doubt the SEC would allow this if it was construed as breaking the rules.

Senna

Dubsli97 wrote: »

You make a very good point. I'm just looking forward to the more advanced stuff and eventually university - but there's no reason why I can't enjoy TY as well.

University is only the basic knowledge transfer part of early adulthood, there is so much more to working life and life in general, take TY as an opportunity to develop social and extracurricular skills, these will actually help you "survive" university meaning you are ready to take the next step after university rather than many current graduates who finish 3rd level education and have no idea what to do or why they can't get a job, as all they know is studying.

Delphinium

spurious wrote: »

The Commission will not accept entries from persons for the Leaving Certificate examination in the year after their Junior Certificate examination or in the year after they have completed Transition Year.

The rules are clear.

Sorry, I got it wrong. Thanks for correction.

UnknownEntity

Hi there, I think I can help you with any questions you might have because I actually did 4th year in the Institute during 2015/16.

Now, it is possible to do the Leaving Cert for certain subjects in 5th year if you did them during 4th year as well. There's only one condition and that is if you want to do medicine, all exams must be sat in the same year. Otherwise, you can start the subject at the beginning of 4th year and do the exam at the end of 5th year with the all the 6th years.

Most people don't do this for subjects that they're going to count because 4th year has a lot of activities and you end up missing a lot of classes based on my experiences. What I did was I started biology in 4th year (which I will count) and then because I was doing well, the teacher let me go into her 6th year class while I was in 5th year and it means that I finished the whole course with a year left until the exam which is going to be a huge advantage for me.

A few of my friends did the exam in 5th year for subjects they won't count such as ordinary Irish etc which they just want to get out of the way.

Ask me any more questions about 4th year if you need any other answers.

Also, if you have any doubts about doing 4th year in the Institute, let me give you some advice.

I cannot stress to you how advantageous 4th year was for me there. They have a perfect balance of academic benefits as well as extra curricular activities that will help you in your future. During 4th year, you sit in with the 5th years in class and the teachers don't treat you any different. You get a real sense of what the Leaving Cert will be like and it makes you really confident going into 5th year.

My year was allowed to do 4 subjects at the same time however you could drop certain subjects whenever you wanted to and try out new ones to solidify your decision on what subjects you want to do. Personally, I stuck with the same subjects all year and now I am at a huge advantage because I basically repeated everything again in 5th year and I think I made the right decision in the end.

As well as all this, they offered us lots of different extra curricular activities such as lifesaving, drama, football etc and you can take time off for work experience whenever you want during the year.

Let me make one thing clear though, 4th year here is nice but if you don't focus and work hard during it, it will be a waste. Too many of my friends treated it like 4th year in any other school where you just sit back all year and now they haven't really reaped the benefits so just be aware of that.

judeboy101

dubsli97 wrote: »

They aren't forcing me to do anything. They just feel like I'm a bit young to be going straight into 5th year. If I did that, unless I repeated a year, I would have no choice but to sit the leaving in 2019. The route I described in the first post would give me a taste of it and I would still have the option to do it regularly in 2020 if I felt I wasn't ready.

OP, if you feel mature enough that you would rather not do TY, then you need to point this to your parents. I teach Ty and the worst students are the ones who don't want to be there but were forced to by parents.

dubsli97

UnknownEntity wrote: »

Hi there, I think I can help you with any questions you might have because I actually did 4th year in the Institute during 2015/16.

Now, it is possible to do the Leaving Cert for certain subjects in 5th year if you did them during 4th year as well. There's only one condition and that is if you want to do medicine, all exams must be sat in the same year. Otherwise, you can start the subject at the beginning of 4th year and do the exam at the end of 5th year with the all the 6th years.

Most people don't do this for subjects that they're going to count because 4th year has a lot of activities and you end up missing a lot of classes based on my experiences. What I did was I started biology in 4th year (which I will count) and then because I was doing well, the teacher let me go into her 6th year class while I was in 5th year and it means that I finished the whole course with a year left until the exam which is going to be a huge advantage for me.

A few of my friends did the exam in 5th year for subjects they won't count such as ordinary Irish etc which they just want to get out of the way.

Ask me any more questions about 4th year if you need any other answers.

Thanks so much for all the information. It will definitely help me think about this.

judeboy101 wrote: »

OP, if you feel mature enough that you would rather not do TY, then you need to point this to your parents. I teach Ty and the worst students are the ones who don't want to be there but were forced to by parents.

Thanks again for the advice, but I think I'll get into the swing of it if I do it. ^^

reason vs religion

spurious wrote: »

The Institute is not a school. It doesn't surprise me they do not adhere to the rules.

Have always appreciated your work on the forum, spurious, but you have a terrible chip on your shoulder re. the Institute!

The TY programme they have is very specialist, with comparatively tiny numbers -- generally people who have significant non-school commitments like sport or whatever. Essentially, it's a slimmed down fifth year which allows students to carry on to sixth year at the Institute, where they do the full curriculum in a single year.

Transition Year was my most productive year of my 6 years in secondary school. I did work experience in three high tech places, which meant I had references for my first job(and something to put on my CV when starting out). I visited various colleges and found out what was being taught in the subjects I had been interested in, did several non-academic courses(nice CV fillers), was a model in the fashion show(:eek:), did a project on the EU for Economics and got an A. Went surfing and abseiling. Learnt a programming language.

Transition Year is what you make it.

OP, you sound very driven, so there is no need for TY to be a wasted year. Do lots of work experience, do some non-academic courses like First Aid, do some volunteering. Use the time. You'll have plenty of time cramming time to learn stuff in later years.

spurious

reason vs religion wrote: »

Have always appreciated your work on the forum, spurious, but you have a terrible chip on your shoulder re. the Institute!

The TY programme they have is very specialist, with comparatively tiny numbers -- generally people who have significant non-school commitments like sport or whatever. Essentially, it's a slimmed down fifth year which allows students to carry on to sixth year at the Institute, where they do the full curriculum in a single year.

My emphasis.
That is exactly what TY is not supposed to be.
I don't care how many people open businesses like the Institute. My issue is them trying to cod people that they are anything other than a money making business. They do not follow the rules which schools have to.

UnknownEntity

spurious wrote:

My emphasis. That is exactly what TY is not supposed to be. I don't care how many people open businesses like the Institute. My issue is them trying to cod people that they are anything other than a money making business. They do not follow the rules which schools have to.

So what? At the end of the day they are an amazing school with amazing teachers that year after year receive the best results in Ireland.

hasdanta

UnknownEntity wrote: »

So what? At the end of the day they are an amazing school with amazing teachers that year after year receive the best results in Ireland.

Extremely debatable that they receive the best results in Ireland.

dubsli97

Deleted User wrote: »

Transition Year was my most productive year of my 6 years in secondary school. I did work experience in three high tech places, which meant I had references for my first job(and something to put on my CV when starting out). I visited various colleges and found out what was being taught in the subjects I had been interested in, did several non-academic courses(nice CV fillers), was a model in the fashion show(:eek:), did a project on the EU for Economics and got an A. Went surfing and abseiling. Learnt a programming language.

Transition Year is what you make it.

OP, you sound very driven, so there is no need for TY to be a wasted year. Do lots of work experience, do some non-academic courses like First Aid, do some volunteering. Use the time. You'll have plenty of time cramming time to learn stuff in later years.

Thanks for the advice! It'd be great to have a transition year like yours. I'll do my best

reason vs religion

spurious wrote: »

My emphasis.
That is exactly what TY is not supposed to be.
I don't care how many people open businesses like the Institute. My issue is them trying to cod people that they are anything other than a money making business. They do not follow the rules which schools have to.

But what I'm saying is, it's not meant as a TY! They're not tryng to skirt rules or cod anyone.

I think it's apparent to everyone that the Institute is a business. But that's not inherently in opposition with providing an excellent education. The perception of the Institute I have found many people to have is that it's a cynical, points-maximising college where teachers will give out essays for rote-learning, exclude teaching parts of curriculums, heavily rely on predictions, etc -- practices that are beneficial in one context (points race) but regressive in other, more important ones. But that is at odds with my experience there. Instead, I found teachers were adamant about finishing curriculums in their entirety. Most were conservative about giving predictions, and those that were more willing still didn't say anything that you'd rush to reveal on boards. (Things like: a particular topic hasn't come up in several years, so it's more probable than another topic which had come up the year before, etc -- low-level stuff that still requires that you do the work.) Teachers are always helpful and willing to answer questions and correct work. (Many give out their emails.) Very difficult to skip days or classes because of sign-in sheets in each class, with absences strictly monitored. Innovative ideas like splitting English into four components, each with a different teacher, and allowing students to attend the same class later in the day for if they struggled and needed it repeated. (There would usually be three or four of the same class given each day.) Having the ability to chose what teacher you wanted (each subject usually had at least two, and there were as many as five in English) engenders commitment in students, and that, perhaps combined with the environment, means there is hardly ever disruption in classes. Combined, of course, with the true popular belief that teachers are uniformly very good and sometimes exceptional.

It is what it is. It doesn't pretend to be a provider of an holistic education, with extra-curriculars and other ancillary stuff. The style of teaching - heavily guided by preprepared notes and in large lecture-style classes - mightn't suit everyone and might allow some to coast. But I contend that the comparator always used to contrast the Institute negatively is an unrealistic one. In the sixth year of most schools, academics takes priority, and the teaching practices such as endless past papers can be even more regressive than those wrongfully attributed to the Institute; it's not a year for amateur dramatics, public speaking and the Young Scientist! I've no connection with the school/college beyond having gone there, and it's not something that I rely on for self esteem (why would it be, ofc?), which might explain why I might blindly defend it. I do so simply because the accusations made against it are usually wrong or misleading, and often tied up with resentment or an unfounded sense of pedagogical superiority!



Apologies, OP, for trampling all over your thread. You seem like an academically inclined person which almost guarantees that when you get to LC you'll find your subjects uninspiring. I think you'd get far more enjoyment and actual benefit from trying to broaden your intellectual horizons outside of schoolwork (by watching iTunes U videos, doing edX courses, reading voraciously, watching Japanese youtubers, and so on...) than trying to start the LC early. Once you leave school, it's not impressive to have done ten leaving cert subjects, but having spent a few days learning about astrophysics definitely is, or doing what so few TedTalk watchers do and follow up on the work that the speaker actually does when they're not trying to engage the crowd!

dubsli97

Apologies, OP, for trampling all over your thread. You seem like an academically inclined person which almost guarantees that when you get to LC you'll find your subjects uninspiring. I think you'd get far more enjoyment and actual benefit from trying to broaden your intellectual horizons outside of schoolwork (by watching iTunes U videos, doing edX courses, reading voraciously, watching Japanese youtubers, and so on...) than trying to start the LC early. Once you leave school, it's not impressive to have done ten leaving cert subjects, but having spent a few days learning about astrophysics definitely is, or doing what so few TedTalk watchers do and follow up on the work that the speaker actually does when they're not trying to engage the crowd!

No problem re the apology. I actually laughed out loud at the comment about me inevitably being uninspired by the subject syllabi, I'm pretty sure that I will be and that I am just setting myself up for disappointment - but I suppose it can't hurt to look forward to it. I understand what you're saying in terms of leaving cert achievement not being impressive, however I have such aspirations just for self-satisfaction. I do see how having impressive achievements can get one far, though. I'd definitely like to do some edX courses, and have been voraciously reading during the summer. I enjoy watching TedTalks too so that might be an idea.

On an off-note, your vocabulary is fantastic. I've just learned three words from that one post :eek:

reason vs religion

dubsli97 wrote: »

No problem re the apology. I actually laughed out loud at the comment about me inevitably being uninspired by the subject syllabi, I'm pretty sure that I will be and that I am just setting myself up for disappointment - but I suppose it can't hurt to look forward to it. I understand what you're saying in terms of leaving cert achievement not being impressive, however I have such aspirations just for self-satisfaction. I do see how having impressive achievements can get one far, though. I'd definitely like to do some edX courses, and have been voraciously reading during the summer. I enjoy watching TedTalks too so that might be an idea.

On an off-note, your vocabulary is fantastic. I've just learned three words from that one post :eek:

Just to clarify, I don't recommend edX or whatever because of employment benefits or reputation with peers. I just meant that no one gives a toss about the LC so don't throw yourself at it because it seems like the only academic challenge open to you!

And thank you I study philosophy in college so plenty of practice with technical and specific language. That, as well as the fact that these are opinions I've given before so I've been able to further polish the language each time