Teacher Unemployment

Dylan94

I was wondering if there are any statistics available regarding current levels of unemployment and underemployment among post primary teachers in Ireland?

If not what would people currently see as being the outlook for NQT's? What are the chances of say a NQT from this year's cohort of new teachers being unemployed come September?

NinetyTwoTeam

I only know a few, all but one had to go abroad for work, and one is unemployed over a year and is now on Jobpath where they are trying to make him take on minimum wage jobs in retail, assembly lines, etc. And he's probably the brightest of the ones I know. Before this they were staffing schools with interns.

The only fields that pay well now and are also hiring seem to be tech, finance, engineering, chemical/laboratory work for large multinationals. Front line workers who really make a huge difference every day to people like teachers, nurses are underpaid, overworked nd underappreciated big time in Ireland,much better pay and conditions abroad.

TheDriver

Its a difficult one to survey because it depends on many factors including subject availability, location, experience etc.

spurious

Look at how many are coming out of all the training courses.
Look at the numbers (and types) of job advertised.

There is nothing new about an over supply of teachers. Yes, there will be some subject areas in which there are more vacancies, but it's simple enough. We are training more than there are jobs for. We have been for years and yet year after year, they pack them in.

TheDriver

And unfortunately they pass some who should never pass a teaching qualification. There's some names I see applying year after year after year

Crazyteacher

So do you automatically shortlist them because you see the same names applying thedriver?

thefasteriwalk

TheDriver wrote: »

And unfortunately they pass some who should never pass a teaching qualification. There's some names I see applying year after year after year

What kind of things lead a principal to determine that someone should not have passed the dip?

Starkystark

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

What kind of things lead a principal to determine that someone should not have passed the dip?

I would be very interested to know this too!

Dylan94

In going into my 2nd year on the PME. I knew that it was going to be difficult to get a job and that it would likely be years before I got anything secure. My own degree is in finance so I feel like I at least have a back up if in say 4 years time I am not getting anywhere with jobs. I'm teaching Business, Geography and Economics. I would also love to do the Limerick course for math.

For now though I done a hdip after my degree and before the PME. Im doing 2 courses this summer and basically doing everything I can to make myself a good teacher. I'm doing as much extra curriculars as possible and am currently upskilling to be able to teach coding as an extra curricular.

And regarding the same names that the principal said he seeing every year applying and he knows they shouldn't have passed the PME. They are the same people that make me panic about my own career. I often see people on voice for teachers saying how they are job searching the past 8 years and still have nothing. I'm am wondering if they are the same people who are on my PME course who are obviously unsuited to teaching.

To me it seems as though at least a third of them would not be suitable to teach and about 80% of them would never survive a day in a DEIS school.

mtoutlemonde

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

What kind of things lead a principal to determine that someone should not have passed the dip?

I've seen some dips that wouldn't make it in teaching for a number of reasons. These are: Poor classroom management, failure to make relationships with students/staff, poor subject knowledge, failure to prepare, not getting involved with extra curricular, not showing interest in school, poor time management etc.

The best I've seen is a dip who had to take a day off after dip inspections due to stress/burnout. This person was very unreliable - could decide to go home at lunch and tell you to teach the class without explaining what the class was doing. This person also had very little social skills and found it difficult to say hello in the morning. I know if I were principal of a school, this person who be the last person I'd calling for a teaching position.

On the other hand, the majority of dips I've seen are excellent and will make excellent teachers. I think personality is a big thing in teaching and these people were the reverse of the reasons above. These people will get jobs.

Teacher employment is a problem that the universities should be dealing with but will they ... not on your life - they want your money and don't care after that. I still remember when I started my dip - introduction lecture - there are loads of jobs - end of dip - good luck, you might be lucky to get a maternity leave but be ready for the long haul in getting your own hours. However I can't understand that many schools had problems getting subs this year.

thefasteriwalk

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I've seen some dips that wouldn't make it in teaching for a number of reasons. These are: Poor classroom management, failure to make relationships with students/staff, poor subject knowledge, failure to prepare, not getting involved with extra curricular, not showing interest in school, poor time management etc.

The best I've seen is a dip who had to take a day off after dip inspections due to stress/burnout. This person was very unreliable - could decide to go home at lunch and tell you to teach the class without explaining what the class was doing. This person also had very little social skills and found it difficult to say hello in the morning. I know if I were principal of a school, this person who be the last person I'd calling for a teaching position.

On the other hand, the majority of dips I've seen are excellent and will make excellent teachers. I think personality is a big thing in teaching and these people were the reverse of the reasons above. These people will get jobs.

Teacher employment is a problem that the universities should be dealing with but will they ... not on your life - they want your money and don't care after that. I still remember when I started my dip - introduction lecture - there are loads of jobs - end of dip - good luck, you might be lucky to get a maternity leave but be ready for the long haul in getting your own hours. However I can't understand that many schools had problems getting subs this year.

Jesus. I've only ever seen the poor classroom management one. And that's more with NQTs since the dip classes tend to be fine. However, what I have seen too often in my school is NQTs walking into 22 hr contracts and getting CIDs having never done any extra-curricular, waltzing out the door at 3.50 and never doing anything outside the classroom. Maybe it shoudnt annoy me as much as it does - they're doing what they're oaid to do - but I give up so much time for my E-C activity as do some others who are there a long time.

themusicman

I had the pleasure of sitting in on interviews in June, and I won't be breaking any rules by putting out here what struck me, a teacher in their 3rd decade of teaching.

Lots and lots of candidates read the websites, know their stuff, but just don't know how to make themselves standout.

Let me give a simple example....everyone is always asked about extra curricular...its a real no surprise question. But for me the surprise was the answers....Im interested in.....I'd like to get involved in.....
But no sign of that interest in anything they have done....if you are interested in getting involved in a sport do the basic coaching courses....the GAA ones take about 8 hours...thats not much to do....yet it sounds so much better saying I have coaching badges than saying I'm like to get involved in.

Some subjects are way oversubscribed......so talk is cheap in those interviews.....dont make wishy washy statements.....prove what you say is true!

evolving_doors

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Jesus. I've only ever seen the poor classroom management one. And that's more with NQTs since the dip classes tend to be fine. However, what I have seen too often in my school is NQTs walking into 22 hr contracts and getting CIDs having never done any extra-curricular, waltzing out the door at 3.50 and never doing anything outside the classroom. Maybe it shoudnt annoy me as much as it does - they're doing what they're oaid to do - but I give up so much time for my E-C activity as do some others who are there a long time.

Maybe there's no pressure on them to do it.... because someone is already doing it all.
Time for a break maybe!

It's unusual though as most of the jobs I've looked at say 'a willingness to take on extra curricular'

It should never have anything to do with classroom contracts imo.

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Maybe there's no pressure on them to do it.... because someone is already doing it all.
Time for a break maybe!

It's unusual though as most of the jobs I've looked at say 'a willingness to take on extra curricular'

It should never have anything to do with classroom contracts imo.

But unfortunately it has in any of the interviews I've attended.

spurious

Not a Principal, but I helped out on a first 'selection' of interview candidates for a crazily over-subscribed small number of hours position that came up in our school a few years ago.

• a number of applications sent to the Principal when all ads clearly stated that they were to be sent to the school secretary (who was named)
• a large number of applications were not for the subjects advertised
• a number had no TC number, or were not registered (again, specifically asked for in the ad)
• applications with the word Principal or the name of the school spelled incorrectly

It really was quite shocking.

Romantic Rose

TheDriver wrote: »

And unfortunately they pass some who should never pass a teaching qualification. There's some names I see applying year after year after year

It's interesting you say that because I know a lot of people who I wouldn't class as particularly bright go into teaching and they do get jobs which is the disheartening thing about it.

I went to a wedding in Thurles one year and one teacher turned around to me and asked me where Thurles is! The home of the GAA, you're meant to know this. I was gobsmacked that a primary teacher asked me that.

On the lacking social skills thing, I worked in schools where people had great social skills but were still unfriendly. But if an inspector or priest came into the school, they would turn on the charm no end. Lovely people then.

It's tough one really.

Starkystark

The whole thing on social skills annoys me. What do you people classify as social skills?

Those teachers that sit around the staff room gossiping and b*itching all day everyday and look down upon those teachers that have no interest in that crap and get on with their work.

I've often overheard in the staff room "oh he's a bit odd", just because he simply gets on with his job.

Social skills ey?

Tom Dunne

Maybe it's not social skills, maybe it's more interpersonal skills?

I would argue that anyone who stands up in front of a class, whether it is primary, secondary or third-level, needs to be personable, approachable and able to work with people, young and not so young.

Snapgal

Dylan94 wrote: »

In going into my 2nd year on the PME. I knew that it was going to be difficult to get a job and that it would likely be years before I got anything secure. My own degree is in finance so I feel like I at least have a back up if in say 4 years time I am not getting anywhere with jobs. I'm teaching Business, Geography and Economics. I would also love to do the Limerick course for math.

For now though I done a hdip after my degree and before the PME. Im doing 2 courses this summer and basically doing everything I can to make myself a good teacher. I'm doing as much extra curriculars as possible and am currently upskilling to be able to teach coding as an extra curricular.

And regarding the same names that the principal said he seeing every year applying and he knows they shouldn't have passed the PME. They are the same people that make me panic about my own career. I often see people on voice for teachers saying how they are job searching the past 8 years and still have nothing. I'm am wondering if they are the same people who are on my PME course who are obviously unsuited to teaching.

To me it seems as though at least a third of them would not be suitable to teach and about 80% of them would never survive a day in a DEIS school.

What an insult to principals and Deputy Principals in DEIS schools.I taught in a DEIS school in an area in Limerick where over half of students came from from deprived areas. Management were superb in this school and I never had an issue with discipline in this school. Parents were very supportive- one student even achieved 9 As in her Junior Cert. I taught in a voluntary school in a rural area which was more difficult as a lot students who came from strong GAA backgrounds thought they could do what they liked.

mtoutlemonde

Snapgal wrote: »

What an insult to principals and Deputy Principals in DEIS schools.I taught in a DEIS school in an area in Limerick where over half of students came from from deprived areas. Management were superb in this school and I never had an issue with discipline in this school. Parents were very supportive- one student even achieved 9 As in her Junior Cert. I taught in a voluntary school in a rural area which was more difficult as a lot students who came from strong GAA backgrounds thought they could do what they liked.

Re-read the thread - he is not insulting principals or deputies he is talking about teachers who would not make it in a DEIS school.

rainbowtrout

Romantic Rose wrote: »

It's interesting you say that because I know a lot of people who I wouldn't class as particularly bright go into teaching and they do get jobs which is the disheartening thing about it.

I went to a wedding in Thurles one year and one teacher turned around to me and asked me where Thurles is! The home of the GAA, you're meant to know this. I was gobsmacked that a primary teacher asked me that.

On the lacking social skills thing, I worked in schools where people had great social skills but were still unfriendly. But if an inspector or priest came into the school, they would turn on the charm no end. Lovely people then.

It's tough one really.

They should probably know where Thurles is, but not everyone's life revolves around GAA. I did not know it was the 'home of the GAA', I do consider it the spiritual home of Feile though :pac:

Romantic Rose

rainbowtrout wrote: »

They should probably know where Thurles is, but not everyone's life revolves around GAA. I did not know it was the 'home of the GAA', I do consider it the spiritual home of Feile though :pac:

My point was that teachers should have a wide general knowledge. To me, knowing that the GAA was started in Hayes Hotel in Thurles is a big deal in our sporting history. It's just basic facts. How can you impart knowledge if you don't know it yourself.

I have come across some very ditzy teachers and I do wonder how they get survive in the classroom.

However, my views on teaching and how it has changed in say the last 15 years are quite strong. I think it has become a very watered and dumbed down profession.

I better not start or I'll end up getting in trouble.

rainbowtrout

Romantic Rose wrote: »

My point was that teachers should have a wide general knowledge. To me, knowing that the GAA was started in Hayes Hotel in Thurles is a big deal in our sporting history. It's just basic facts. How can you impart knowledge if you don't know it yourself.

I have come across some very ditzy teachers and I do wonder how they get survive in the classroom.

However, my views on teaching and how it has changed in say the last 15 years are quite strong. I think it has become a very watered and dumbed down profession.

I better not start or I'll end up getting in trouble.

And it's a big deal to you. It doesn't matter in the slightest to me. What you are doing is deciding that people are not knowledgeable if they don't know something that you take an interest in. Granted, a lot of people have an interest in GAA, but not everyone does.

But for what it's worth, should I label everyone a dumbass if they don't know that Munster beat the All Blacks 12-0 in 1978???? Horses for courses.

People are paid to impart knowledge in a subject they are qualified in. That doesn't mean they have to know the history of the GAA. I didn't grow up in a GAA household none of my friends did either. It doesn't mean I don't have a wide general knowledge otherwise.

I think graduates coming through have a poorer general knowledge overall, partly stemming from a dumbing down in the education system, and partly because their lives are consumed by social media. But in an educational setting I'd be more concerned when they don't have a good knowledge of the subject area they are supposed to be qualified in.


On the actual thread topic, I think it's hard to gauge unemployment levels in teaching because if you ask any college for graduate employment figures they will present figures for those in actual employment, whether that be in a field relevant to the qualification or stacking shelves in the local supermarket. Also similar graduate figures might take into account a percentage that have emigrated, but it's never clear if they chose to of their own account or because they couldn't get work here.

Eimee90

TheDriver wrote:

And unfortunately they pass some who should never pass a teaching qualification. There's some names I see applying year after year after year

I'm really surprised at this comment. I graduated with a first class honours in my dip three years ago, I have subbed constantly since then, as well as working part time jobs to survive. I got my first break this year with a good contract. You would have seen my name every year as well. Should I have not been passed?

Eimee90

themusicman wrote:

Let me give a simple example....everyone is always asked about extra curricular...its a real no surprise question. But for me the surprise was the answers....Im interested in.....I'd like to get involved in..... But no sign of that interest in anything they have done....if you are interested in getting involved in a sport do the basic coaching courses....the GAA ones take about 8 hours...thats not much to do....yet it sounds so much better saying I have coaching badges than saying I'm like to get involved in.

This irritates me though. We are qualified to teach, not kick footballs after school or teach the next best choir. I have no problem with doing a bit of extracurricular but I've seen too many new teachers forced to take up some after school club that they have no interest in or talent because it may "lead to them being kept on next year" sad that it has to come to this to be perfectly honest.

Eimee90

rainbowtrout wrote:

I think graduates coming through have a poorer general knowledge overall, partly stemming from a dumbing down in the education system, and partly because their lives are consumed by social media. But in an educational setting I'd be more concerned when they don't have a good knowledge of the subject area they are supposed to be qualified in.

Could I see statistics for this please? I wasn't made aware when I qualified only three years ago that my formal education, and apparent obsession with social media has made me a dumbed down teacher.

Stereotypical nonsense.

rainbowtrout

elsa21 wrote: »

I'm really surprised at this comment. I graduated with a first class honours in my dip three years ago, I have subbed constantly since then, as well as working part time jobs to survive. I got my first break this year with a good contract. You would have seen my name every year as well. Should I have not been passed?

And I suspect that the original post was in relation to subs who send in CVs to schools year after year who have been given a go and were not good teachers.

We have had subs in my school and when they are good subs they are given more work, sometimes it leads to a contract. Sometimes it's unfortunate that there just isn't anything to match their subjects. But you know they will land a job somewhere.

Others though, you wonder why they are sticking with it, because there's no enthusiasm there, no classroom management skills, no initiative and no desire to develop any of these things.

elsa21 wrote: »

Could I see statistics for this please? I wasn't made aware when I qualified only three years ago that my formal education, and apparent obsession with social media has made me a dumbed down teacher.

Stereotypical nonsense.

I don't have statistics, but I have noticed that a lot of new teachers know a lot less coming in than teachers gone before them. Many do not have basic skills in the science lab that I would expect them to have and do not have an excellent knowledge of their subject area.

I'm also an examiner and do practical and written exams. So I see a bit of this travelling to numerous schools around the country.

I've had sub teachers sit down beside me in my staffroom and ask me if I could help them with a question in maths..... more than once. I do find that worrying when a teacher with a maths degree cannot figure out a question in a Junior Cert maths book.

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And I suspect that the original post was in relation to subs who send in CVs to schools year after year who have been given a go and were not good teachers.

We have had subs in my school and when they are good subs they are given more work, sometimes it leads to a contract. Sometimes it's unfortunate that there just isn't anything to match their subjects. But you know they will land a job somewhere.

Others though, you wonder why they are sticking with it, because there's no enthusiasm there, no classroom management skills, no initiative and no desire to develop any of these things.



I don't have statistics, but I have noticed that a lot of new teachers know a lot less coming in than teachers gone before them. Many do not have basic skills in the science lab that I would expect them to have and do not have an excellent knowledge of their subject area.

I'm also an examiner and do practical and written exams. So I see a bit of this travelling to numerous schools around the country.

I've had sub teachers sit down beside me in my staffroom and ask me if I could help them with a question in maths..... more than once. I do find that worrying when a teacher with a maths degree cannot figure out a question in a Junior Cert maths book.

I've had a substitute maths teacher with one class group from a maternity sub (so not swamped with hours) unable to tell me what they had done the previous week and exactly where they were in the topic (JC). I've had a different substitute maths teacher outright teach my class a concept incorrectly. And I mean totally incorrectly, it wasn't a topic that the teaching had changed in or anything

mtoutlemonde

elsa21 wrote: »

Could I see statistics for this please? I wasn't made aware when I qualified only three years ago that my formal education, and apparent obsession with social media has made me a dumbed down teacher.

Stereotypical nonsense.

Have a look at the Voice For Teachers Facebook page ... where the posters never heard of Google and the spelling and grammar is frightening. I worry about the next generation when I read that page. Thankfully it doesn't happen here as much.

evolving_doors

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Have a look at the Voice For Teachers Facebook page ... where the posters never heard of Google and the spelling and grammar is frightening. I worry about the next generation when I read that page. Thankfully it doesn't happen here as much.

Yes I seen that too. Their always looking for pacific advise when they should of just looked on the departments' website.

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Yes I seen that too. Their always looking for pacific advise when they should of just looked on the departments' website.

You 'should of' put that in as well Just to add I am a grammar Nazi but I went to university and demand a certain standard of English. It doesn't make sense correcting spelling and grammar from students if teachers don't take the time to use correct English. I love looking at the school reports

spurious

I have met a teacher of English who regularly says she hates reading books.

rainbowtrout

spurious wrote: »

I have met a teacher of English who regularly says she hates reading books.

I work with two such teachers. One of them also has a dislike of poetry.

Eimee90

I think that applies to all ages, not just new teachers. I'm sorry I just find those comments really insulting. I worked so hard to get where I am today. My friends who are new teachers have also done the same and I consider myself to be as competent as any senior teacher, what I will learn is experience from them.

But I'll make no apologies for being insulted like this. Making sweeping generalisations is unfair. I have seen a lot of older teachers whom I have questions about their ability to teach but I know not all senior teachers are like that. Teacher bashing is ugly but even worse when it's coming from the inside.

Rather than coming onto a forum to bash someone, did you ever consider to advise that new teacher or suggest other methods of teaching. Would do a lot more good than gossiping behind their back.

Mardy Bum

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Have a look at the Voice For Teachers Facebook page ... where the posters never heard of Google and the spelling and grammar is frightening. I worry about the next generation when I read that page. Thankfully it doesn't happen here as much.

Between 2009-2012 entry to Hdip/PDE courses was at it's most fierce and you needed very high grades because people wanted a safe, well paid job after the fright of the recession and huge numbers retrained. If you had a business degree you needed a master's with it for NUIM regardless of the grade and for other strands you needed a high 2.1. Following the decrease in pay and worsening conditions, coupled with an upswing in the economy, entry to these courses is no longer competitive.

The most idiotic responses (grammar not included) on VfT are invariably older, more experienced teachers.

rainbowtrout

elsa21 wrote: »

I think that applies to all ages, not just new teachers. I'm sorry I just find those comments really insulting. I worked so hard to get where I am today. My friends who are new teachers have also done the same and I consider myself to be as competent as any senior teacher, what I will learn is experience from them.

But I'll make no apologies for being insulted like this. Making sweeping generalisations is unfair. I have seen a lot of older teachers whom I have questions about their ability to teach but I know not all senior teachers are like that. Teacher bashing is ugly but even worse when it's coming from the inside.

Rather than coming onto a forum to bash someone, did you ever consider to advise that new teacher or suggest other methods of teaching. Would do a lot more good than gossiping behind their back.

No point in getting insulted about it. Nobody here has said that all new teachers are like that, but it is a concern to see people coming through that just aren't that good.

Teaching just like every other profession has people working in it that shouldn't be working in it. We had a new teacher in last year doing a maternity leave. She spent a lot of time telling other more experienced teachers how to do their job, not just how to teach but what they should be teaching in their subjects, and the reality was she was doing very little herself and what she was doing wasn't very good.

We had a dip student in this year (former student) who rocked up one morning for a double class and when the cooperating teacher asked her what she was doing with them for the class out of curiosity, the dip replied 'I just thought I'd use your powerpoints that you used when you taught it'. The cooperating teacher's jaw hit the floor at the cheekiness, lack of initiative, laziness and general apathy from a dip who was expecting an inspection visit and hadn't bothered to put anything together, if she didn't get the powerpoint that morning, she'd have had nothing for class.

Another guy doing the dip asked to do some observation classes. So he was sitting in the back of a teacher's class when one of the students made a smart comment to the teacher, and some of the students started laughing at the comment. Teacher reprimanded said student and got on with her class. What she did say to me afterwards that was shocked her more was the dip student, who is aiming to be a teacher in the next 12 months or so, sat there sniggering with the students, thinking this was great craic. I must say she had great patience. If that had happened in my class, he'd have been fcuked out the door so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.

So while you might have worked extremely hard to get to where you are elsa21, don't be under the illusion that everyone else is doing the same. Some teaching candidates shouldn't be let near a classroom.

mtoutlemonde

elsa21 wrote: »

I think that applies to all ages, not just new teachers. I'm sorry I just find those comments really insulting. I worked so hard to get where I am today. My friends who are new teachers have also done the same and I consider myself to be as competent as any senior teacher, what I will learn is experience from them.

But I'll make no apologies for being insulted like this. Making sweeping generalisations is unfair. I have seen a lot of older teachers whom I have questions about their ability to teach but I know not all senior teachers are like that. Teacher bashing is ugly but even worse when it's coming from the inside.

Rather than coming onto a forum to bash someone, did you ever consider to advise that new teacher or suggest other methods of teaching. Would do a lot more good than gossiping behind their back.

You're taking it all very personal. Of course there are bad senior teachers - that's life - they just got lucky in securing employment.

This thread was about teacher unemployment and has now become an advice (sort of) on what gets someone a job. The advice is to check your letter of application/CV for errors - grammatical/spelling etc. otherwise it will end up in the bin.

Also you say that we are gossiping behind teachers backs ... put yourself in an experienced teacher who has a dipper who is unprepared and does not understand their subject which they are meant to be an expert in and saying 'Well John, I think you're useless!' - Would you honestly do this?
Now everyone needs help sometime but a maths teacher who can't do a jcert problem has a major problem and this will be evident at interviews and end up in unemployment.

mtoutlemonde

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No point in getting insulted about it. Nobody here has said that all new teachers are like that, but it is a concern to see people coming through that just aren't that good.

Teaching just like every other profession has people working in it that shouldn't be working in it. We had a new teacher in last year doing a maternity leave. She spent a lot of time telling other more experienced teachers how to do their job, not just how to teach but what they should be teaching in their subjects, and the reality was she was doing very little herself and what she was doing wasn't very good.

We had a dip student in this year (former student) who rocked up one morning for a double class and when the cooperating teacher asked her what she was doing with them for the class out of curiosity, the dip replied 'I just thought I'd use your powerpoints that you used when you taught it'. The cooperating teacher's jaw hit the floor at the cheekiness, lack of initiative, laziness and general apathy from a dip who was expecting an inspection visit and hadn't bothered to put anything together, if she didn't get the powerpoint that morning, she'd have had nothing for class.

Another guy doing the dip asked to do some observation classes. So he was sitting in the back of a teacher's class when one of the students made a smart comment to the teacher, and some of the students started laughing at the comment. Teacher reprimanded said student and got on with her class. What she did say to me afterwards that was shocked her more was the dip student, who is aiming to be a teacher in the next 12 months or so, sat there sniggering with the students, thinking this was great craic. I must say she had great patience. If that had happened in my class, he'd have been fcuked out the door so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.

So while you might have worked extremely hard to get to where you are elsa21, don't be under the illusion that everyone else is doing the same. Some teaching candidates shouldn't be let near a classroom.

I had a dipper who had a few of my classes. I wasn't long out of dip and he knew that. He asked if he could see a lesson plan which I showed him. When he saw a folder of lesson plans, He said 'Thanks, you don't mind if I print them all out?' I don't need to give the answer. This dipper was incredibly unreliable, unprepared and didn't realise where he was working with his attire but ended up getting a job straight out of university.

Eimee90

mtoutlemonde wrote:

You're taking it all very personal. Of course there are bad senior teachers - that's life - they just got lucky in securing employment.

I'm not taking it personal but this thread has been derailed to bash dips or PME's. It's a bit tiring. Not what this thread was supposed be.

Airyfairy12

Its very hard to find work, I know a number of people I went to school with who went straight into University to study secondary school teaching in subjects like home ec, history, english, french, german and religion, we finished school 12 years ago. After years of subbing all around the country sometimes only getting 4 - 6 hours work a week most of them left the profession. One of them got a permanent contract teaching Religion and one other subject, the rest either went back to college to study something else, went into ELT teaching working with migrants or got jobs in Google, paypal ect.
That being said, a girl I went to University with did her PME and got a job straight after in her old secondary school, simply because her and her parents know the principal. She shouldnt be teaching, she can't handle groups of teenagers and its unfortunate because it's the students that lose out in the long run, but this seems to be a common occurrence were principals are hiring their friends, relatives and friends children regardless of whether or not theyre suited to the job.
Another friend of mine recently had an interview for a pme in the North and was told they'd had 500 applicants.
Since the 1 year Hdip has been changed to a 2 year masters id imagine the number of applications will go down as the courses are now twice as long and twice as expensive (10,000 - 12,000 for fees) which isnt affordable for allot of people and given the low job prospects it might put people off. Its allot of money to spend when there's no guarantee of a job at the end of it.

evolving_doors

Just on your last point. I ld say what is killing it for a lot of new entrants is the part time ad hoc nature of it. You're literally (figuratively! ) living on hope and being strung along for years.

Crazyteacher

With regards that Facebook page, theres regular occurrence of the following: the exact same question has been asked two comments below theirs. On a number of occasions , they ask for resources for a subject they have never taught before or never qualified in. I don't understand how they got through teaching practice without making resources or even college without having heard about or being told about the PDST or their subject associations. There's definitely a reliance on some of that generation to be handed information/resources. Like mletoutlemonde said , some can't even google anymore. Are we focusing so much on getting them to third level , that we are missing out on the practical stuff like how to find out info / make a phone call.

Romantic Rose

On the asking other teachers questions on maths, I was teaching 3D shape one day and discussed with the class how many edges a cone has. I said one.

The senior room teacher came in to the staff room and was discussing this exact question with his class. Cue us having a big discussion if a cone has an edge etc. Out come the teacher resource books to try to get a definitive answer and lo and behold, some maths programmes say a cone has one, other programmes say it had none.


Don't understand how they can contradict each other.

Mardy Bum

Romantic Rose wrote: »

On the asking other teachers questions on maths, I was teaching 3D shape one day and discussed with the class how many edges a cone has. I said one.

The senior room teacher came in to the staff room and was discussing this exact question with his class. Cue us having a big discussion if a cone has an edge etc. Out come the teacher resource books to try to get a definitive answer and lo and behold, some maths programmes say a cone has one, other programmes say it had none.


Don't understand how they can contradict each other.

Irish textbooks are awful and constructed on sand.

TheDriver

Theres a notion out there that the people who write the textbooks are Gods and experts in the subject area. Unfortunately that has been proven to not be the case.

spurious

TheDriver wrote: »

Theres a notion out there that the people who write the textbooks are Gods and experts in the subject area. Unfortunately that has been proven to not be the case.

Even worse, some exam marking schemes are looking for answers that have been given in textbooks and learned off, despite not actually being correct.