Public transport situations. Do you intervene?

Bambi985

So I was recently taking a tube back home from a work event in the late evening, probably 11.30 - 12am, when I noticed out of the corner of my eye a well-dressed young chap across from me was very very drunk and out of it.

Early-mid 20s I'd say, banker type, preppy suit, floppy hair, dress shoes, swaying in his seat and alternating between leaning forward with his head in his hands and leaning back staring at the ceiling with an anguished look on his face. Drink or drugs, I'm not sure, but it was substantial.

I'll now hold my hands up and say I kept my London-tube head on me, continued in social shutdown as I stared into my phone and observed him with my peripheral vision as his phone slipped out of his hands and fell under the seat onto the floor of the tube.

At which point the woman beside me jumped up and moved over towards him, several pieces of luggage in tow, gently kneeled down beside him and asked him if he was OK. I was struck by the tenderness in her voice, such a contrast to the usual monotone abruptness of fellow commuters. She grabbed his phone, asked him where he was trying to get to, and asked him if there was anyone he could call to meet him when she realised he had gone at least ten stops too far. At that point the fella beside him stood up and said he would take him home.

The tube pulled into the next station, doors opened and they all hobbled out, drunk fella leaning on these two strangers for support, leaving me sitting there contemplating my own ****tiness for remaining so removed and detached in the face of a guy who clearly needed help.

Now the tube can be a nightmare at the best of times and your standard Londoner will adapt a "no eye contact under any circumstances" to get through the choas of the many rush hours they have to deal with - but christ what the world needs less in every bloody sense is people who don't give a sh1t. Apathy. It'll be the death of humanity as we know it. I felt ashamed and vowed to be a little more human when I'm underground from now on.

So what I'm curious about is how do you handle these types of public situations, are you the hero or the bystander? When's the last time you "got involved" and what was the result? Or do you prefer to do as I do, mentally detach and stare out the window?

Are Am Eye

"Jericho fifteen or twenty minutes later, you’re about twenty-two feet below sea level. That’s a dangerous road. Came to be known as the ‘Bloody Pass.’ And you know, it’s possible that the priest and the Levite looked over that man on the ground and wondered if the robbers were still around. Or it’s possible that they felt that the man on the ground was merely faking , and he was acting like he had been robbed and hurt in order to seize them over there, lure them there for quick and easy seizure. And so the first question that the priest asked, the first question that the Levite asked was, ‘If I stop to help this man, what will happen to me?’

“But then the Good Samaritan came by, and he reversed the question: ‘If I do not stop to help this man, what will happen to him?'”


Martin Luther King

weldoninhio

Bambi985 wrote: »

So I was recently taking a tube back home from a work event in the late evening, probably 11.30 - 12am, when I noticed out of the corner of my eye a well-dressed young chap across from me was very very drunk and out of it.

Early-mid 20s I'd say, banker type, preppy suit, floppy hair, dress shoes, swaying in his seat and alternating between leaning forward with his head in his hands and leaning back staring at the ceiling with an anguished look on his face. Drink or drugs, I'm not sure, but it was substantial.

I'll now hold my hands up and say I kept my London-tube head on me, continued in social shutdown as I stared into my phone and observed him with my peripheral vision as his phone slipped out of his hands and fell under the seat onto the floor of the tube.

At which point the woman beside me jumped up and moved over towards him, several pieces of luggage in tow, gently kneeled down beside him and asked him if he was OK. I was struck by the tenderness in her voice, such a contrast to the usual monotone abruptness of fellow commuters. She grabbed his phone, asked him where he was trying to get to, and asked him if there was anyone he could call to meet him when she realised he had gone at least ten stops too far. At that point the fella beside him stood up and said he would take him home.

The tube pulled into the next station, doors opened and they all hobbled out, drunk fella leaning on these two strangers for support, leaving me sitting there contemplating my own ****tiness for remaining so removed and detached in the face of a guy who clearly needed help.

Now the tube can be a nightmare at the best of times and your standard Londoner will adapt a "no eye contact under any circumstances" to get through the choas of the many rush hours they have to deal with - but christ what the world needs less in every bloody sense is people who don't give a sh1t. Apathy. It'll be the death of humanity as we know it. I felt ashamed and vowed to be a little more human when I'm underground from now on.

So what I'm curious about is how do you handle these types of public situations, are you the hero or the bystander? When's the last time you "got involved" and what was the result? Or do you prefer to do as I do, mentally detach and stare out the window?

How do you know they helped him? They may have taken him outside, taken his wallet and anything else saleable he had and dumped him in a bush. If he was that out of it he'd never know what happened.

Yourself isit

Bambi985 wrote: »

So I was recently taking a tube back home from a work event in the late evening, probably 11.30 - 12am, when I noticed out of the corner of my eye a well-dressed young chap across from me was very very drunk and out of it.

Early-mid 20s I'd say, banker type, preppy suit, floppy hair, dress shoes, swaying in his seat and alternating between leaning forward with his head in his hands and leaning back staring at the ceiling with an anguished look on his face. Drink or drugs, I'm not sure, but it was substantial.

I'll now hold my hands up and say I kept my London-tube head on me, continued in social shutdown as I stared into my phone and observed him with my peripheral vision as his phone slipped out of his hands and fell under the seat onto the floor of the tube.

At which point the woman beside me jumped up and moved over towards him, several pieces of luggage in tow, gently kneeled down beside him and asked him if he was OK. I was struck by the tenderness in her voice, such a contrast to the usual monotone abruptness of fellow commuters. She grabbed his phone, asked him where he was trying to get to, and asked him if there was anyone he could call to meet him when she realised he had gone at least ten stops too far. At that point the fella beside him stood up and said he would take him home.

The tube pulled into the next station, doors opened and they all hobbled out, drunk fella leaning on these two strangers for support, leaving me sitting there contemplating my own ****tiness for remaining so removed and detached in the face of a guy who clearly needed help.

Now the tube can be a nightmare at the best of times and your standard Londoner will adapt a "no eye contact under any circumstances" to get through the choas of the many rush hours they have to deal with - but christ what the world needs less in every bloody sense is people who don't give a sh1t. Apathy. It'll be the death of humanity as we know it. I felt ashamed and vowed to be a little more human when I'm underground from now on.

So what I'm curious about is how do you handle these types of public situations, are you the hero or the bystander? When's the last time you "got involved" and what was the result? Or do you prefer to do as I do, mentally detach and stare out the window?

There is a kindness to many english people behind the London exterior.

I tend to blank out when I'm on public transport. Particularly – when I lived in London – the tube.

I might have done nothing. I'd like to think I would help but l don't know. I do have a tube face.

Yourself isit

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you know they helped him? They may have taken him outside, taken his wallet and anything else saleable he had and dumped him in a bush. If he was that out of it he'd never know what happened.

That probably says more about you than them.

SEPT 23 1989

Sounds like they were in cahoots alright

Yourself isit

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Sounds like they were in cahoots alright

Sure. They knew this guy was on the train right?

AnneFrank

Bystander, people need to take responsibility for themselves

Fart

The drunk dude probably got the hole rode off him by the chap beside him. You should have taken the chance.

SEPT 23 1989

Yourself isit wrote: »

Sure. They knew this guy was on the train right?

Well from the description of the victim in the OP. it sounds like Mr drunk had money and plenty of it maybe the son of a wealthy banker or foreign diplomat

Sounds well planned to me

helimachoptor

I've intervened a couple of times, once on the bus when these teenagers started beating the **** out of another kid, like 7 or 8 of them. Walked down and just lifted the kid out, i think everyone was shocked but he was getting a proper beating. I asked him what stop he was getting off at, it was a few after me so i stayed on the bus and got off with him and made sure the others didnt get off.

You'd assume this was a bus going to a "rough "area.. but it was the 46a and the group ere from Colaiste Eoin, got a very sincere "thanks very much"


Another time on the red luas, there was a hammered guy, who sat beside a girl and started trying to chat her up, she had no interest, headphones in etc. Then he got prett aggro "stuck up **** etc" then he punched the window, so i walked over got her by the hand and put her on my seat, just stood in front of her so he couldnt see.
He didnt do anything, but it could have easily went the other way

Yourself isit

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Well from the description of the victim in the OP. it sounds like Mr drunk had money and plenty of it maybe the son of a wealthy banker or foreign diplomat

Sounds well planned to me

Ffs. How did they know a drunk guy was on that tube carriage?

Bambi985

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you know they helped him? They may have taken him outside, taken his wallet and anything else saleable he had and dumped him in a bush. If he was that out of it he'd never know what happened.

Well I don't. But it was fairly obvious they were two random people who had never met. She was mid-20s I'd say, college studenty, had three big pieces of luggage as though she was on her way to the airport (this was the Picadilly line to Heathrow). The other fella was a slight dude well into his forties, glasses and wearing a cardigan, got on separately and stuck his earphones on, staring out the window like the rest of us.

The woman picked up his phone and tried to call the drunk lad's girlfriend, couldn't get through, then they chatted for a few minutes about what they should do...when 40s dude got involved.

It was very obviously an act of kindness that left me feeling a bit shameful and that clearly was about to majorly inconvenience the woman who was heading somewhere.

Fart

Are Am Eye wrote: »

"Jericho fifteen or twenty minutes later, you’re about twenty-two feet below sea level. That’s a dangerous road. Came to be known as the ‘Bloody Pass.’ And you know, it’s possible that the priest and the Levite looked over that man on the ground and wondered if the robbers were still around. Or it’s possible that they felt that the man on the ground was merely faking , and he was acting like he had been robbed and hurt in order to seize them over there, lure them there for quick and easy seizure. And so the first question that the priest asked, the first question that the Levite asked was, ‘If I stop to help this man, what will happen to me?’

“But then the Good Samaritan came by, and he reversed the question: ‘If I do not stop to help this man, what will happen to him?'”


Martin Luther King

I keep rereading that. I've never seen it before, but.... Wow!

Paddy Cow

Bambi985 wrote: »

It was very obviously an act of kindness that left me feeling a bit shameful and that clearly was about to majorly inconvenience the woman who was heading somewhere.

You feel ashamed because it ended well. It could have gone another way with your man getting aggressive and boxing the head off the woman. In the same situation I'd have probably reacted like you because you just don't know how drunk people are going to react.

Paddy Cow

Bambi985 wrote: »

I'll now hold my hands up and say I kept my London-tube head on me, continued in social shutdown as I stared into my phone and observed him with my peripheral vision as his phone slipped out of his hands and fell under the seat onto the floor of the tube.

The guy is very lucky that two people helped him and didn't film it and post it on YouTube for the lolz.

r93kaey5p2izun

I mostly stare fixedly out the window or at my phone and ignore as much as possible. I intervened once on a packed bus when three lads aged 13-16 or so were harrassing a girl of around 14. They were saying disgusting sexual things to her and shoving her. That escalated to groping. I told them to stop or I'd phone the guards and got up from my window seat and told her to sit in there away from them. I got groped too, and a kick for my troubles, and they got off at the next stop.

I would do similar again but I definitely ignore drunk/drugged people. It's just too common an occurence for to be getting involved all the time.

The Backwards Man

Conked out on a PATH train one night about four in the morning (jet lag ), woken up by the conductor in Newark when I should have got off in Journal Square. Nobody on the yoke but me, him and this homeless fella. He gave the homeless fella five dollars for soup and drove me back to Jersey City. He could have been a murderer or a sex maniac I suppose, but if you can't trust a 250lb minimum wage transport worker in Greater New York in the middle of the night, then who can you trust?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Fart

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Conked out on a PATH train one night about four in the morning (jet lag ), woken up by the conductor in Newark when I should have got off in Journal Square. Nobody on the yoke but me, him and this homeless fella. He gave the homeless fella five dollars for soup and drove me back to Jersey City. He could have been a murderer or a sex maniac I suppose, but if you can't trust a 250lb minimum wage transport worker in Greater New York in the middle of the night, then who can you trust?

Ecstasy will do that to ya.

Twasnt you got him drunk

jbt123

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you know they helped him? They may have taken him outside, taken his wallet and anything else saleable he had and dumped him in a bush. If he was that out of it he'd never know what happened.

Don't be a gob****e all the time....

The Backwards Man

Fart wrote: »

Ecstasy will do that to ya.

Haha, the only yokes I'm in these days have wheels

Bambi985

Bambi985 wrote: »

So I was recently taking a tube back home from a work event in the late evening, probably 11.30 - 12am, when I noticed out of the corner of my eye a well-dressed young chap across from me was very very drunk and out of it.

[...]

So what I'm curious about is how do you handle these types of public situations, are you the hero or the bystander? When's the last time you "got involved" and what was the result? Or do you prefer to do as I do, mentally detach and stare out the window?

Please don't take this as a criticism of your post, or of those very helpful and decent people on the Tube, that's not what I intend at all.

But why do we (as a society) tend to see it as less important or appropriate to intervene when the intoxicated adult looks like they're homeless and strung-out of heroin, as opposed to ... a banker in dress shoes who is equally out of his mind on drink or drugs?

We've all been on a bus or the Luas with so-called 'junkies' whom I'm sure none of us have ever approached asking if they're ok. In fact, most of us will have passed them on the cold pavement and wondered "he looks like he might be dead", without even bothering to check if they're alive.

I do this all the time, so again, I don't mean it as a criticism. It just occurred to me that we seem to discriminate between those who deserve our care & attention based on whether they look like us, or if they had enough lucky breaks in the birth lottery. The people who didn't win the birth lottery are, somewhat paradoxically, written-off by our 'civilised' society.

Mrs OBumble

In the street, I'll call the guards if it looks warranted because someone is vulnerable and it's not their fault. However if they're just drunk / drugged ... meh, it's self-inflicted, the only way they'll learn is if they have to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Tend not to intervene in person, especially if I'm alone, because you never know how they'll react.

Public transport is trickier. Harder to call for help. More chance of things going sour, too.

Bambi985

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Please don't take this as a criticism of your post, or of those very helpful and decent people on the Tube, that's not what I intend at all.

But why do we (as a society) tend to see it as less important or appropriate to intervene when the intoxicated adult looks like they're homeless and strung-out of heroin, as opposed to ... a banker in dress shoes who is equally out of his mind on drink or drugs?

We've all been on a bus or the Luas with so-called 'junkies' whom I'm sure none of us have ever approached asking if they're ok. In fact, most of us will have passed them on the cold pavement and wondered "he looks like he might be dead", without even bothering to check if they're alive.

I do this all the time, so again, I don't mean it as a criticism. It just occurred to me that we seem to discriminate between those who deserve our care & attention based on whether they look like us, or if they had enough lucky breaks in the birth lottery. The people who didn't win the birth lottery are, somewhat paradoxically, written-off by our 'civilised' society.

It's a fair point Tyrant. I think there's been studies on it too, proving your point that more passers-by will stop for your standard well-dressed "white collar" guy/gal who looks like they're in a spot of bother on the street versus someone who looks homeless/like a heroin addict.

Relatability maybe? Could be you or I on our way home from work etc. Desensitisation to seeing those homeless people and drug addicts lying on corners or strung out in the street? It's a number of things really, none of them fair or necessarily moral per say, but the way of the world all the same.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Just once on the red line (luas) I was standing near the seats at the bendy part of the tram and a little boy was sitting near the window and there was a drunk sitting next to him, not a nice drunk, he was shouting At people. A lady I presume was the kids nana was standing too telling him to get up and come over to her you could tell the child was terrified and the old lady wasn't much better.

I put my hand in across the drunk, little lad took my hand and just stepped out past the drunk man. No issues, I think he was just terrified.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Please don't take this as a criticism of your post, or of those very helpful and decent people on the Tube, that's not what I intend at all.

But why do we (as a society) tend to see it as less important or appropriate to intervene when the intoxicated adult looks like they're homeless and strung-out of heroin, as opposed to ... a banker in dress shoes who is equally out of his mind on drink or drugs?

We've all been on a bus or the Luas with so-called 'junkies' whom I'm sure none of us have ever approached asking if they're ok. In fact, most of us will have passed them on the cold pavement and wondered "he looks like he might be dead", without even bothering to check if they're alive.

I do this all the time, so again, I don't mean it as a criticism. It just occurred to me that we seem to discriminate between those who deserve our care & attention based on whether they look like us, or if they had enough lucky breaks in the birth lottery. The people who didn't win the birth lottery are, somewhat paradoxically, written-off by our 'civilised' society.

I've seen a few junkies look dead on the street in Dublin and wouldn't have it on my conscience walking past them, they're someone's child/sibling/parent. If I'm afraid to touch them I'll ring the ambulance but I wouldn't leave someone clearly in danger i.e. Passed out or stumbling out onto the road, without trying to get them help if I was unwilling or unable to help them myself

diomed

I preferred the tube story about a guy who was feeling unwell, opened his briefcase, and vomited into it.
When he got home he opened his briefcase to find there was no vomit, only a load of files and business papers he did not recognise.

whoopsadoodles

Far from a hero and the very use of that phrase has me reluctant to reply but I would be more likely to help than ignore. I get a bit of slagging over it at times but all in a nice way.

I'm not a tube traveller though so who knows.

andekwarhola

There's so many variables as to whether you would or not. There's no shame in being worried about doing it. Dunno these days if I'd risk it in a lot of situations as you're not getting any younger and you don't know the background to the altercation.

By this, I mean trying to intervene in a situation where somebody is being harassed or assualted. Personally, I think it's a bit foolhardy to confront a complete stranger about something relatively trivial like playing music or smoking on public trasnport.

Down the years, we've done it before, for example, a few of us stopped a gang of lads hassling another lad. Or once, years ago, a drunk weird guy was really creeping on this girl (who clearly didn't know him) on the bus . She didn't know me but I vaguely recognized her as having some mutual friends and when he suddenly got off the bus behind her, I got off at that stop as well just to make he wasn't up to anything.

weldoninhio

Bambi985 wrote: »

Well I don't. But it was fairly obvious they were two random people who had never met. She was mid-20s I'd say, college studenty, had three big pieces of luggage as though she was on her way to the airport (this was the Picadilly line to Heathrow). The other fella was a slight dude well into his forties, glasses and wearing a cardigan, got on separately and stuck his earphones on, staring out the window like the rest of us.

The woman picked up his phone and tried to call the drunk lad's girlfriend, couldn't get through, then they chatted for a few minutes about what they should do...when 40s dude got involved.

It was very obviously an act of kindness that left me feeling a bit shameful and that clearly was about to majorly inconvenience the woman who was heading somewhere.

Apologies, I'd misread the OP. I thought this guy and his mate had helped him off, not a guy and the lady who first went to assist him.

razorblunt

Only a couple of times, I don't take public transport at night so I've not seen the worst of it, it's just been general stuff of telling lads to leave a smaller kid alone, or some scumbag to turn his music off the loudspeaker. Only ever had a punch thrown at me once for some lad who wanted the window on a bus opened when everyone else didn't. The fact he was with his gf probably made him do it, but he got sat down and then thrown off quite quickly.

JollyBustard

I always like to think I'd be one to tell someone to cop on, or intervene in the case of an issue on public transport (in terms of helping someone drunk/drugged, probably less so, just because it's the 'less savoury' people hammered at rush hour that I'd see drunk. Ie, not exactly inspiring members of the community.)

In saying that, I let myself down only yesterday: was sitting on the first bus home from work when I heard a chap wolf-whistling and obscenely cat calling down the back, as the object of his ardour passed to go down the stairs. She paused at the top and I convinced myself I was going to turn to the junkie to tell him to shut up. But failed. Few minutes later he proceeds to light up a cigarette, again, at the back of the bus. Plenty of people turned (myself included) but not a one spoke up.

No excuses, but this happened at 6:30 and the bus was reaching the end of the line. I'd imagine most just wanted to go about their own business and not deal with this chap and his pals potentially hassling them or getting a bit aggro.

Still, I would have thought I'd stand up for the woman, but it didn't happen.