Western spermcounts in freefall; descent continues

zmgakt7uw2dvfs

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sperm-counts-west-plunge-60-170004942.html

Asia, Africa and South America are seemingly unaffected. Surely a problem.

Dravokivich

Surely there'll be less descenting?

Hitman3000

Eason CoolS Hoe wrote:

Asia, Africa and South America are seemingly unaffected. Surely a problem.

Too many humans anyways. Looks like 'whitey' may end up on the endangered list.

Hande hoche!

"A diet high in alcohol, caffeine, processed meat, soy and potatoes may also have an adverse effect on male fertility."

My take from that is to reduce my soy consumption. The spuds seem a bit out of place.

Shenshen

Hande hoche! wrote: »

"A diet high in alcohol, caffeine, processed meat, soy and potatoes may also have an adverse effect on male fertility."

My take from that is to reduce my soy consumption. The spuds seem a bit out of place.

Why, how much soy do you consume at the moment?

Yourself isit

The analysis seems wrong. Why would south Americans live all that differently to Spain etc. There's a lot of obesity there too.

suicide_circus

Sure look at the recent "do you want kids" thread. Most of us have a Peter Pan complex in which we prefer a quick porno fap and a life of few responsibilities.

DontThankMe

We're better off this way the world is gonna become overpopulated enough without us fvckers making more babies.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Hande hoche! wrote: »

"A diet high in alcohol, caffeine, processed meat, soy and potatoes may also have an adverse effect on male fertility."

My take from that is to reduce my soy consumption. The spuds seem a bit out of place.

Yep I'm with ya Hande hoche that's me and soy finished as well.

McMurphy

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Too many humans anyways. Looks like 'whitey' may end up on the endangered list.

Aw not whitey.

He was my favourite in me myself and Irene.

seenitall

Shenshen wrote: »

Why, how much soy do you consume at the moment?

There is soya in almost every conceivable processed food. Read the labels. (Or don't buy processed food - cook from scratch.)

gramar

I reckon it's down to the cumulative effect of all the waves around us from mobiles, wifi, microwaves, tv's, radio waves and all the other electromagnetic invisible stuff that floats around us.

Cuddlesworth

Yourself isit wrote: »

The analysis seems wrong. Why would south Americans live all that differently to Spain etc. There's a lot of obesity there too.

"although the scientists said fewer studies had been carried out there."

I would guess they don't really have time or money to waste testing sperm counts. Plus other factors.

Ficheall

Laptops, I reckon.

RobbingBandit

We are all a bunch of wonkers in the west in the west yes we're all a bunch of wonkers in the west in the west, et cetera et cetera.

Lux23

Apparently, they only started testing males from Africa, Asia and South America in 1985 so they don't have the data to compare accurately. Sure I don't see what the big deal is, you will be able to synthesise sperm in a lab fairly soon - if you can't already.

JupiterKid

Male fertility rates have been plummeting in the West for several decades now - this is not news. I strongly suspect that it has to do with all the female hormone mimicking pesticide residues in our food and environment.

In parts of the USA there has been a huge increase in hermaphrodite frogs at the expense of new males - this has been postulated to be caused by the same environmental toxins as those causeng falling human male fertility.

Diets rich in processed and fatty food and a sedentary lifestyle probably play a part too.

Wanderer78

JupiterKid wrote:

Male fertility rates have been plummeting in the West for several decades now - this is not news. I strongly suspect that it has to do with all the female hormone mimicking pesticide residues in our food and environment.

Was actually only talking to my neighbour about the effects of pesticides on bee populations last night, these chemicals must be having major negative effects on us to

deandean

About 200 million sperm per ejaculation.
Only one is needed to do the job.
So with careful use of a pipette I could personally fertilise every birth in the World for about 18 months
I think the human race will be around for a while yet.

Wibbs

JupiterKid wrote: »

Male fertility rates have been plummeting in the West for several decades now - this is not news. I strongly suspect that it has to do with all the female hormone mimicking pesticide residues in our food and environment.

In parts of the USA there has been a huge increase in hermaphrodite frogs at the expense of new males - this has been postulated to be caused by the same environmental toxins as those causeng falling human male fertility.

Diets rich in processed and fatty food and a sedentary lifestyle probably play a part too.

+1. And that sorta thing has been seen here. A few years back on an Irish river there was an unexpected number of very large trout caught by fishermen. Very large trout get that way because they are hard to catch, so fewer are caught. In any event the upshot was after a couple were tested was that they were all genetically male fish, but something in their environment had essentially castrated them and the reproductive energy had gone into growth(in humans castrated males like eunuchs tended towards obesity). IIRc it was traced or at least the finger was pointed towards a water treatment plant on the river.

For me no way would I touch any soy products. As a man anyway. For a start it is a novel protein in the western diet. It's in Ireland maybe for 20 odd years? Asians have been consuming it for more like two thousand years so would have adapted to it. They also consume smaller amounts on average. Even so in many Asian cultures the women don't suffer to the same degree through menopause and that has been linked to the quasi natural hormone replacement of soy in the diet. There's also the older Japanese advice for wives who find their husbands too amorous, feed them more soy. Eh no.

Testosterone in men is also falling. The medical average range for men has been revised downward in the last few years.

JupiterKid

Prostate and testicular cancers have seen a big rise in the West in the same period sperm counts have been falling. Perhaps there is a common cause - toxic pesticide residues in our environment/food?

Wanderer78

Wibbs wrote:

For me no way would I touch any soy products. As a man anyway. For a start it is a novel protein in the western diet. It's in Ireland maybe for 20 odd years? Asians have been consuming it for more like two thousand years so would have adapted to it. They also consume smaller amounts on average. Even so in many Asian cultures the women don't suffer to the same degree through menopause and that has been linked to the quasi natural hormone replacement of soy in the diet. There's also the older Japanese advice for wives who find their husbands too amorous, feed them more soy. Eh no.

What products contain soy?

suicide_circus

Dont a lot of plastics contain estrogen-like compounds too?

Wibbs

JupiterKid wrote: »

Prostate and testicular cancers have seen a big rise in the West in the same period sperm counts have been falling. Perhaps there is a common cause - toxic pesticide residues in our environment/food?

Ireland might indicate some causes. Because of the whole catholic thing we didn't experience the advent of the contraceptive pill the way our neighbour the UK did and our upswing in testicular cancers had more than a decade gap after theirs. So maybe that getting back into the water supply had the impact. Though dubious enough as the concentrations would be very low.

Prostate cancer's rise is more likely down to men living slightly longer and being tested for it more. Even in long lived men in the past most would have had the cancer, but in many cases where it's very slow growing it's more a cancer you die with than from.

It might be hormonal too mind you. Though testosterone makes existing tumours grow like wildfire, men with higher test levels throughout life had lower risks of the disease.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What products contain soy?

Other than obvious soy products, takeaways, ready made sauces and the like, processed food basically W.

Malayalam

A 60% drop in male fertility rates in 40 years sounds to me lack a fairly serious statistic. It should prompt proper investigation. It probably would, if it was not in all likelihood linked to factors that have become so embedded in our daily lives - chemicals, plastics, hormones in the water and food etc - that real investigation of it would undermine our very way of life. Thus it will be glossed over as another anomaly of ''western culture'' or some such.
If I, however, as an individual, was engaged in some business, producing or distributing goods that were shown to have had the effect of reducing male fertility by 60% in 40 years, I would - quickly and rightly so - be forced to immediately desist from producing or distributing said goods, and prosecuted for something approaching...uh, I don't know....attempted genocide or something (being dramatic for effect here.) Because these are big multinational corporations, however, and because their profit margins are the foundation of the wealth of some of the wealthiest of the wealthy in the world, then nothing will be done and in a further 40 years we will be ...hmmmm...maybe sterile? Who cares enough?

thelord

Could flouride in the water also be a factor ?

http://fluoridealert.org/issues/health/fertility/

Are Am Eye

Have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?

seamus

Ah yes, the old, "White people will die out and those inferior darkies will take over the world" thread from an OP who coincidentally doesn't bother engaging with the rest of the thread.

Hande hoche!

seamus wrote: »

Ah yes, the old, "White people will die out and those inferior darkies will take over the world" thread from an OP who coincidentally doesn't bother engaging with the rest of the thread.

Plenty of Caucasians in South America but don't let that get in the way of your moral grand standing.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

Ah yes, the old, "White people will die out and those inferior darkies will take over the world" thread

Actually the decline in sperm and testosterone levels is across all populations in the West. Just like the rise in allergies. The "darkies" are firing more blanks too.

Kivaro

seamus wrote: »

Ah yes, the old, "White people will die out and those inferior darkies will take over the world" thread from an OP who coincidentally doesn't bother engaging with the rest of the thread.

Dude ......... chill.

Hande hoche! wrote: »

"A diet high in alcohol, caffeine, processed meat, soy and potatoes may also have an adverse effect on male fertility."

My take from that is to reduce my soy consumption. The spuds seem a bit out of place.

There goes my teaspoon of soy per year out the window then.
I'm not adjusting my consumption of the other items on the list, as my body mightn't be able for the change.


Anyway, I blame the feminists. The poor sperm can't take them anymore.




Pops high cholesterol popcorn into the deep fat fryer and waits for a response ........

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

DontThankMe wrote: »

We're better off this way the world is gonna become overpopulated enough without us fvckers making more babies.

I have never understood why people think the world is overpopulated. There is so much space available for humanity to expand into. If you're feeling claustrophobic, just move.

The real problem is infrastructure and travel time of the vast distances.

zmgakt7uw2dvfs

seamus wrote: »

Ah yes, the old, "White people will die out and those inferior darkies will take over the world" thread from an OP who coincidentally doesn't bother engaging with the rest of the thread.

A nasty, neurotic and all-too-predictable knee-jerk reaction from a member of the "everything is racist" brigade.

Tilikum

Hadleigh Warm Surgeon wrote: »

I have never understood why people think the world is overpopulated. There is so much space available for humanity to expand into. If you're feeling claustrophobic, just move.

The real problem is infrastructure and travel time of the vast distances.

And the fact we're wiping out 1000s of species on a yearly basis by expanding out. Scientists believe by 2050, 50% of species on earth will be gone.

50 yrs ago there was 450,000 wild lions in Africa. Now there's as few as 20,000 because humans are encroaching on their lands.

Roger_007

Surely the declining sperm count is due to climate change?...............every other problem is!

seamus

Eason CoolS Hoe wrote: »

A nasty, neurotic and all-too-predictable knee-jerk reaction from a member of the "everything is racist" brigade.

Aw, did I hurt a snowflake's feelings?

Western spermcounts being in decline is something we should look at. It's not an indication of any kind of "descent".

It's a poorly understood phenomenon at present, the roles of hormones in male physiology has been taken for granted for a long time, i.e more testosterone == more manliness.
This has recently been found to not be the case - Asian males have some of the highest testosterone levels despite being the least "manly".
There are also several questions over the reliability of historical data and whether we can really compare the data from today against anything that's more than 30 or 40 years old.

But most studies have found evidence that there's probably been a decline in the last 30 years at least, even if we can't be sure what the historical levels may have been.
So there's a good chance that there's something relatively simple and obvious happening in developed societies that's not happening elsewhere.

Physical activity and high-fat, high-sugar diets being the smoking gun. Though as Wibbs points out, auto-immune disorders also appear to be on the rise, so a reduced sperm count could be an immune disorder.

zmgakt7uw2dvfs

seamus wrote: »

Aw, did I hurt a snowflake's feelings?

Western spermcounts being in decline is something we should look at. It's not an indication of any kind of "descent".

Yes it is -- spermcounts continue to fall, i.e. they are descending from higher levels. What is complicated about that?

It's a poorly understood phenomenon at present, the roles of hormones in male physiology has been taken for granted for a long time, i.e more testosterone == more manliness.
This has recently been found to not be the case - Asian males have some of the highest testosterone levels despite being the least "manly".
There are also several questions over the reliability of historical data and whether we can really compare the data from today against anything that's more than 30 or 40 years old.

But most studies have found evidence that there's probably been a decline in the last 30 years at least, even if we can't be sure what the historical levels may have been.
So there's a good chance that there's something relatively simple and obvious happening in developed societies that's not happening elsewhere.

Physical activity and high-fat, high-sugar diets being the smoking gun. Though as Wibbs points out, auto-immune disorders also appear to be on the rise, so a reduced sperm count could be an immune disorder.

Grand. Now would you care to retract your malign insinuation that I posted this thread because I'm racist, or will you persist in being a proper cock?

The_Valeyard

Children of Men.......

mikhail

Hadleigh Warm Surgeon wrote: »

I have never understood why people think the world is overpopulated. There is so much space available for humanity to expand into. If you're feeling claustrophobic, just move.

The real problem is infrastructure and travel time of the vast distances.

There's lots of sand. Not so much arable land. And as the other guy said, we're pretty much a mass-extinction-level event as it is.

Wossack

rise in office working/tv/general sedentary lifestyle (sitting on your hole 8-14hrs a day baking your balls) cant be good for the ole man chowder

seamus

Eason CoolS Hoe wrote: »

Grand. Now would you care to retract your malign insinuation that I posted this thread because I'm racist, or will you persist in being a proper cock?

Sure. Your use of the word "descent" is redundant beside "freefall". And also a strange use when "decline" would be a more typical word to use in this context.

But I'm happy to take you at your word and apologise for the insinuation.

I do however, reserve the right to continue being a proper cock.

blinding

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. And that sorta thing has been seen here. A few years back on an Irish river there was an unexpected number of very large trout caught by fishermen. Very large trout get that way because they are hard to catch, so fewer are caught. In any event the upshot was after a couple were tested was that they were all genetically male fish, but something in their environment had essentially castrated them and the reproductive energy had gone into growth(in humans castrated males like eunuchs tended towards obesity). IIRc it was traced or at least the finger was pointed towards a water treatment plant on the river.

For me no way would I touch any soy products. As a man anyway. For a start it is a novel protein in the western diet. It's in Ireland maybe for 20 odd years? Asians have been consuming it for more like two thousand years so would have adapted to it. They also consume smaller amounts on average. Even so in many Asian cultures the women don't suffer to the same degree through menopause and that has been linked to the quasi natural hormone replacement of soy in the diet. There's also the older Japanese advice for wives who find their husbands too amorous, feed them more soy. Eh no.

Testosterone in men is also falling. The medical average range for men has been revised downward in the last few years.

Women are going to wipe us out one way or another......its a war and we're losing......

zmgakt7uw2dvfs

seamus wrote: »

Sure. Your use of the word "descent" is redundant beside "freefall". And also a strange use when "decline" would be a more typical word to use in this context.

But I'm happy to take you at your word and apologise for the insinuation.

I do however, reserve the right to continue being a proper cock.

That is your right, and I appreciate the apology.

ScumLord

JupiterKid wrote: »

Diets rich in processed and fatty food and a sedentary lifestyle probably play a part too.

It seems like fat isn't the issue at all. I'm after finding out the low fat craze was a conspiracy by the sugar industry to divert attention away from the fact sugar is the real danger to peoples health. Real conspiracy, they paid off scientists to say it was fat behind growing numbers of people suffering heart disease.

I counted all my sperms, I counted 598, that's a lot, I must be super fertile. Putting them back in took a while though.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

It's a poorly understood phenomenon at present, the roles of hormones in male physiology has been taken for granted for a long time, i.e more testosterone == more manliness.
This has recently been found to not be the case - Asian males have some of the highest testosterone levels despite being the least "manly".

Not in any of the studies I've read on the matter. All but one found (east) Asians had slightly lower than Europeans, who were lower than Africans and that one outlier was only slightly higher. Disease profiles follow a similar pattern where testosterone is implicated. African men are most at risk of prostate cancer, Asian men the least with European men in the middle. What is different is the enzyme(s?) that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. Asian men have the lowest levels of this. Which incidentally might explain why Asian men are generally less prone to male pattern baldness when compared to Europeans(it's DHT that makes baldies, not levels of testosterone). DHT also seems to be heavily implicated in prostate cancers.

Depends on individuals too of course, certainly with "manliness". I'm running right at the top end of the range for blood serum levels of testosterone and yet am slight of build with not exactly a lot of muscle going on. The only obvious effects I can see over the years is that I could grow a full beard by 14/15(could grow a tash by 13), my voice broke earlier and never put on belly fat. Oh and horniness. I'm also shorter at five ten/eleven than all my male relatives who are all six foot four/five. Which as my GP at the time mused could be down to that as the hormone is involved with slowing bone end growth in later adolescence.

Though as Wibbs points out, auto-immune disorders also appear to be on the rise, so a reduced sperm count could be an immune disorder.

Never thought of that connection S. Could be.

I too am dubious about the sampling and sample sizes. What research exists shows quite the range of serum levels of testosterone among otherwise normal men. I'd not be shocked to see drops because of our recent dietary and lifestyle changes, but by how much is the thing.

on the sperm front for example and in the real world the age cutoff for men making sperm donations has been steadily revised upwards(40 odd IIRC). So quality seems to be OK, within certain groups of men anyway.

seamus

Wibbs wrote: »

Not in any of the studies I've read on the matter.

To be fair, that was taken from cursory glances over a range of results from Google. Some of which found Asian men with higher levels than western men.
Though with an interesting result in one case where asian men who had emigrated to the west showed testosterone levels consistent with other western residents. I wonder if hormonal levels are possibly even a response to external stimuli - e.g. men in a highly masculinised/patriarchal culture producing more testosterone than those in less polarised cultures.

Really my main point was that for a long time there's been a school of thought that women were the complicated ones, hormones going up and down all over the place, causing female hysteria, hot flushes and gayness. Men on the other hand had one hormone, it made them manly, and it never changed.

Whereas contemporary research suggests testosterone could possibly the biggest influencer of them all across both genders, and interfering with it causes havoc all over the shop.

That's a bit off topic though, there's apparently little or no link between testosterone levels and sperm counts.

Hector Savage

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Too many humans anyways. Looks like 'whitey' may end up on the endangered list.

Nice bit of racism there.

no ?

Imagine if this was a problem in Africa and I posted

Looks like blackies may end up on the endangered list

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

Tilikum wrote: »

And the fact we're wiping out 1000s of species on a yearly basis by expanding out. Scientists believe by 2050, 50% of species on earth will be gone.

50 yrs ago there was 450,000 wild lions in Africa. Now there's as few as 20,000 because humans are encroaching on their lands.

mikhail wrote: »

There's lots of sand. Not so much arable land. And as the other guy said, we're pretty much a mass-extinction-level event as it is.

It is not fair and I'm certainly not saying that it's right, but someone is going to lose out as we expand ever outwards into all of that available space.

Humans > *