hair in shower trap. whose responsibility?

Tenant informed me that drains were blocked so I send around a plumber. Upshot is that I have a bill for 100 euro for taking hair out of the shower trap.

What do you think, is this landlords responsibility? I would never dream of calling a plumber myself for such as this but i know people are different. My inclination is to tell the tenant that this is a normal part of keeping a house clean and let them meet the plumbers bill themselves but I want to be sure I'm on safe ground.

doolox

If it was the tenants call to send around the plumber then the tenant should pay but it was your call on getting the notification of the problem. Perhaps you should have called out personally and attended to the problem yourself as it appears from your comment about " I would never dream of calling out a plumber" that you are a competent handyman, (woman, handyperson???) capable of handling routine blockages yourself.

Unless the tenant is a hairshedding wookie of unusual hirsuteness such blockages are to be expected in shower units and are relatively easy to clear.

You took the decision to send the plumber yourself and not the tenant so you should pay.

I am a landlord and call out tradesmen to do routine jobs on my rented property for two reasons, tenants like the reassurance of a job well done especially with heating, plumbing or most critically, electrical issues. Both electrical and gas issues must be sorted by a paid professional who is insured and indemnified for his work. Heating issues tend to need ongoing maintenance and I am not always near at hand to fix issues which may occur from time to time. I do not expect the tenant to pay for such issues but get an invoice and put it down for tax purposes.

amcalester

I would pay this time but send the tenant a letter stating what the cause of the blockage was, and that it is the their responsibility to keep the drains clear.

doolox

....in my mother-in-laws house but no way to access the shower trap. There is a handy gadget you can buy for 12 euros or so like a long spring on a reel that can go around corners in pipework and through traps etc to pull out hair etc trapped in drains. That and a bottle of concentrated Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda) did the trick, plus plenty of water afterwards to prevent corrosion of any metal or injury to future showerers feet.........

The gadget is called a toilet snake by our american cousins.....

noodler

If I'd a blocked drain I'd spend a tenner on the relevant chemicals rather than bother the landlord.

seamus

Yeah, I'd tell the tenant to try some sink & drain unblocker next time before coming to you. Get it in the supermarket, costs less than a tenner.

myshirt

Is your tenant female?

CPSW

I am a renter and would never dream of calling out a plumber for something like that or going near a landlord!  It's part and parcel of keeping your home clean.  Tell your tenant to buy some drain un-blocker and for removing lumps of hair give them the tip of getting a wire hanger and straighten it out to use to unblock going forward!

Gumbo

The chemicals don't work.
Get the tenant the wire brush. €2 and they work perfectly.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Sink-Snake-Unblock-Drains-Sinks-Bath-Plug-Shower-Unblocker-Long-New-Unclog-Hair-/221751418134?hash=item33a16a1d16

These can be bought in Dealz and the like.

wordofwarning

I think you as the landlord should pay it, as I think you are both responsible for using a plumber. The tenant should not have looked for a plumber to unclog a drain nor should have you called to get to unclog it.

A lot of people don't trouble shoot issues with tenants. IMO you should have asked the tenant, if they just drain cleaner or hair removal cream like Veet on it first(Veet is the best, as it dissolves the hair). Would you call plumber to unclog a drain in your own house?

Sam Kade

noodler wrote: »

If I'd a blocked drain I'd spend a tenner on the relevant chemicals rather than bother the landlord.

Why not free it by hand, costs zero.

Pelvis

OP if you'd never dream of calling a plumber for this kind of problem then why did you? For this reason you should bear the brunt of the cost.

Tenant must be a bit precious if they are call you over this. Advise them for future reference that this is something they can sort themselves.

Gravelly

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, I'd tell the tenant to try some sink & drain unblocker next time before coming to you. Get it in the supermarket, costs less than a tenner.

You can get Rothenberger drain unblocker (basically nearly pure sulphuric acid) in good 'ol Mr. Price for €4 for a 1L bottle. Mighty stuff, like a small nuclear detonation in a bottle.

Gravelly

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why not free it by hand, costs zero.

Maybe I'm a wimp, but I'd rather throw a couple of euros of chemical in there than go rooting around in someone else's dead skin cells, hair, and (probably) bodily fluids.

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Dravokivich

Only time I called a land lord on it, was when there was an issue after I first moved in.

I regularly cleaned it myself. Didn't need anything more than an old toothbrush, some bleach and an old bottle to fill up with water to rinse out really. (shower head was attached to wall)

kceire

kceire wrote: »

The chemicals don't work.

Always worked for me, both ones I bought myself in the hardware and industrial strength ones we used when I did summer work with a plumber many years ago.

If I was the LL I'd have called around myself to take a look before calling a plumber.

skallywag

Lincoln Many Octogenarian wrote: »

If I was the LL I'd have called around myself to take a look before calling a plumber.

+1

If the blockage is due to hair then a dose of Cillit Bang Drain will have it sorted out in no time.

I need to do our shower a few times a year myself due to certain family members insisting on having long hair.

OP here. Yes, thanks for the views which are my feelings too. I was away at the time so couldnt call around and I should have questioned the tenants more closely. I will pay this time but let them know I felt this was something they should have taken care of themselves.

Gravelly

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Since they've been used successfully for decades all over the world, they are unlikely to do any damage to the plumbing if used as directed.
From an environmental standpoint, hydrochloric acid simply becomes salt water and a small amount of C02 after it clears your drain. It's the same stuff that's in your stomach.

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Gravelly

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But you did, as you thought it would damage your plumbing or the environment until I told you otherwise. If you choose to "use a bit of elbow grease" that's your prerogative, but there's no point in putting off others by uninformed opinion.

skallywag

As long as your plumbing is non-metallic, as is usually the case these days, then it will not be damaged by household strength drain cleaners.

spaceHopper

I look after my Father's rental house it's in flats, one of the tenants tried to unblock the shower, he accidently knocked out the trap without realising it and flooded the flat below the next time he had a shower. He only knew about the problems when the water flowing through the fire alarm set it off... He meant well but he's DIY challenged and f-ed up. Moral if the story better get a pro in and sort than have a DIY disaster on your hands. And no I didn't go hard on him he mant well and it's all sorted now, we are luck there is a good bunch in the house.

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Claw Hammer

There should be a self-cleaning trap provided. Tenants should be shown how to empty it.

Gravelly

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In extremely rare (as in pretty much none) cases, if you had metallic drains straight from the shower, filled the u bend with hydrochloric acid, didn't run any water down after it, and left it overnight. But then you wouldn't be using it as directed, and I've never come across a shower with metallic drainage pipework, if such a thing even exists. The acid is neutralised shortly after being poured down the drain, so becomes harmless. I've never heard of anyone who damaged their plumbing, old or otherwise with these chemicals, and I doubt anyone ever has using them as directed.

Fian

Gravelly wrote: »

In extremely rare (as in pretty much none) cases, if you had metallic drains straight from the shower, filled the u bend with hydrochloric acid, didn't run any water down after it, and left it overnight. But then you wouldn't be using it as directed, and I've never come across a shower with metallic drainage pipework, if such a thing even exists. The acid is neutralised shortly after being poured down the drain, so becomes harmless. I've never heard of anyone who damaged their plumbing, old or otherwise with these chemicals, and I doubt anyone ever has using them as directed.

The chemical in standard drain cleaner is sodium hydroxide (NaOH) not Hydrochloric acid (HCL). Nevertheless you do still end up with a salt e.g. (NaCL) and water (H2O).

mikeybrennan

Deleted User wrote: »

Tenant informed me that drains were blocked so I send around a plumber. Upshot is that I have a bill for 100 euro for taking hair out of the shower trap.

What do you think, is this landlords responsibility? I would never dream of calling a plumber myself for such as this but i know people are different. My inclination is to tell the tenant that this is a normal part of keeping a house clean and let them meet the plumbers bill themselves but I want to be sure I'm on safe ground.

You pay

Bottle of drain cleaner from aldi would fixed it

Gravelly

Fian wrote: »

The chemical in standard drain cleaner is sodium hydroxide (NaOH) not Hydrochloric acid (HCL). Nevertheless you do still end up with a salt e.g. (NaCL) and water (H2O).

The brand I mentioned earlier is 97% hydrochloric acid (according to the label).

riffmongous

That's annoying OP, but it could have been building up for years and from previous tenants too I suppose, did they actually try anything before calling the plumber?. Let them know in future it's their responsibility to keep it clean

Alf Veedersane

Gravelly wrote: »

The brand I mentioned earlier is 97% hydrochloric acid (according to the label).

What's the brand? 97% HCl sounds very unlikely.

Gravelly

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What's the brand? 97% HCl sounds very unlikely.

It's Rothenberger - and you're correct, it isn't 97% HCI it's actually 97% sulphuric acid - my bad.

Alf Veedersane

Gravelly wrote: »

It's Rothenberger - and you're correct, it isn't 97% HCI it's actually 97% sulphuric acid - my bad.

Link?

I'm curious.

Gravelly

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Link?

I'm curious.

Discussing drain cleaner isn't how I envisaged my day off.

A quick google brings up:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/331800370317

https://www.in-excess.com/products/rothenberger-plumbing-tools-toilet-drain-unblocker-1-litre

spaceHopper

Gravelly wrote: »

It's Rothenberger - and you're correct, it isn't 97% HCI it's actually 97% sulphuric acid - my bad.

Never use that it will melt the pipes it's only for unlocking toilets and ceramic pipes it is very dangerous to use too. Keep well clear.

Panthro

Buy them the drain unblocker and tell them nexttime it blocks simply follow the iinstructions.
And if they can't do that... evict the useless bassstards!*


*Perhaps don't do that

professore

Gravelly wrote: »

It's Rothenberger - and you're correct, it isn't 97% HCI it's actually 97% sulphuric acid - my bad.

Holy sh1t ... you think advising a DIY incompetent tenant to handle battery acid is a good idea? I can see the law firms drooling from here.

Gravelly

professore wrote: »

Holy sh1t ... you think advising a DIY incompetent tenant to handle battery acid is a good idea? I can see the law firms drooling from here.

It sold in Mr. feckin Price, and every hardware store. It's not exactly uranium. If people can't handle household chemicals they'll probably have succumbed to domestos or toilet duck before reaching adulthood.

professore

professore wrote: »

I can see the law firms drooling from here.

You must be drinking the stuff if you think a LL advising a tenant to use a product could end up in a court case. Honestly some people are so afraid of being sued or non-existent reasons I'm surprised they get up in the morning.

beauf

They should put a filter on the drain if they lose a lot of hair.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/shower-hair-trap

rsynnott

Lincoln Many Octogenarian wrote: »

You must be drinking the stuff if you think a LL advising a tenant to use a product could end up in a court case. Honestly some people are so afraid of being sued or non-existent reasons I'm surprised they get up in the morning.

In fairness, you probably shouldn't be telling random people to use something which is labelled as for trade use, and is sulphuric acid based, and warns that it's not suitable for showers, on their shower. I would have thought that advising an appropriate shower-safe agent would be fine, tho?

spaceHopper

Gravelly wrote: »

It sold in Mr. feckin Price, and every hardware store. It's not exactly uranium. If people can't handle household chemicals they'll probably have succumbed to domestos or toilet duck before reaching adulthood.

It's what yobs in england are using in acid attacks. My wife bough it for a sink in our house by mistake. I wouldn't let it in the house incase the kids found it. Offered it to a plumber who lives next door and he said no way he never uses it. Ended up taking it to Council disposal site

Gravelly

spaceHopper wrote: »

It's what yobs in england are using in acid attacks. My wife bough it for a sink in our house by mistake. I wouldn't let it in the house incase the kids found it. Offered it to a plumber who lives next door and he said no way he never uses it. Ended up taking it to Council disposal site

Jaysus, who'd have known it was so scary.

Sam Kade

Gravelly wrote: »

Maybe I'm a wimp, but I'd rather throw a couple of euros of chemical in there than go rooting around in someone else's dead skin cells, hair, and (probably) bodily fluids.

Rubber gloves

Alun

Most shower drains have removable traps that simply unscrew and pull out for cleaning. Most of the hair ends up tangled around this, and is easily removed without wasting money on nasty corrosive chemicals, and is much more effective. Plenty of YouTube videos explaining how to do it.