Residency and number plates

shaunr68

Hi all

The missus and I are originally from the UK but resident here a while now. We have an Irish registered car on Irish plates that we use over here.

I am thinking of buying a motorhome in the UK, leaving it in the UK on UK plates for holidays to the continent. It will be registered and insured in my name at my parents' address, I also have a sterling bank account registered to this address.

This vehicle will rarely if ever be driven in Ireland but supposing we wanted to bring it over for a few weeks tootling up the west coast. Can I do so legitimately and then return it to the UK where it is based year-round?

Ultimately my question is about the requirement to import a vehicle. Is it based on the residency of the driver OR the normal location of the vehicle?

Many thanks

Victor

shaunr68 wrote: »

It will be registered and insured in my name at my parents' address

Won't this mean making false declarations? Is open drive insurance available for motor homes?

shaunr68

Victor wrote: »

Won't this mean making false declarations? Is open drive insurance available for motor homes?

Strictly speaking I suppose it's possible, though I can't see an alternative if it is to be parked and used primarily over there and from there to the continent. Surely I am allowed to own and insure vehicles in two different countries?

Found this http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/insurance/validity/index_en.htm

In principle, you can also insure your car in a EU country different from your country of residence. But remember to check if the insurance company offers international services

Some friends have a holiday place in Cyprus and they have a Cypriot plated car parked outside their apartment, as well as their usual car at home, all above board as far as I know.

Isambard

i doubt it would be a problem but I suppose you could register it in a Parents name with you as a named driver?

aujopimur

It is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign registered vehicle in Ireland, except by permission of The Revenue Commisioners.

mikeecho

aujopimur wrote: »

It is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign registered vehicle in Ireland, except by permission of The Revenue Commisioners.

Correct.






Awaits. The misinformed masses to comment.

shaunr68

aujopimur wrote: »

It is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign registered vehicle in Ireland, except by permission of The Revenue Commisioners.

Thanks

So it would be illegal, for example, for me to travel over to the UK, hire a van for the purposes of moving some household items and take the ferry to Ireland with said items?

Sounds rather draconian, but I appreciate the information.

shaunr68

Isambard wrote: »

i doubt it would be a problem but I suppose you could register it in a Parents name with you as a named driver?

Thanks, dad is over 70 though which complicates matters with vehicles over 3,500 KG GVW

Isambard

aujopimur wrote: »

It is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign registered vehicle in Ireland, except by permission of The Revenue Commisioners.

so it's illegal to import a vehicle personally and drive it home from the ferryport?

biko

Isambard, if you want to pursue offtopic then start a thread in Buying.
This thread is about something else.

Isambard

why pick on me? I proposed a solution to the problem in an earlier post only to be told it was ilegal and my implied point was what was the difference between a hypothetical Irish resident driving his UK based Dad's Uk reg van in Ireland and someone importing one and drivng it home from the ferry.

Mooooo

You could to ring revenue or department of transport., they are sound most of the time. Whatever about insurance companies

galwaytt

shaunr68 wrote: »

Hi all

The missus and I are originally from the UK but resident here a while now. We have an Irish registered car on Irish plates that we use over here.

I am thinking of buying a motorhome in the UK, leaving it in the UK on UK plates for holidays to the continent. It will be registered and insured in my name at my parents' address, I also have a sterling bank account registered to this address.

This vehicle will rarely if ever be driven in Ireland but supposing we wanted to bring it over for a few weeks tootling up the west coast. Can I do so legitimately and then return it to the UK where it is based year-round?

Ultimately my question is about the requirement to import a vehicle. Is it based on the residency of the driver OR the normal location of the vehicle?

Many thanks

It's based on residency of the driver. The Finance Act 1997 is what did this iirc under Bertie Ahern as minister at the time.

As an Irish resident you can't drive a foreign registered vehicle.

Isambard - yes you can drive one from the UK to Revenues office for the purposes of lining their coffers, but that's about it.

Marcusm

Isambard wrote: »

why pick on me? I proposed a solution to the problem in an earlier post only to be told it was ilegal and my implied point was what was the difference between a hypothetical Irish resident driving his UK based Dad's Uk reg van in Ireland and someone importing one and drivng it home from the ferry.

Because in the latter scenario you have a period of time to book and arrange a VRT appointment at the NCTS. IN the former scenario, the law is simply being broken and the vehicle is subject to seizure.

Marcusm

shaunr68 wrote: »

Thanks, dad is over 70 though which complicates matters with vehicles over 3,500 KG GVW

Realistically the law is set up (across the EU, same principle) that in your home country you are precluded, with certain short term exceptions relating to hire cars, employer provided vehicles and imports, from driving a vehicle which is registered in another country. You would have no problem driving the UK reg'd vehicle int he UK or France, for example. However, you would find it difficult to legally obtain insurance on a UK reg'd vehicle while you are an Irish resident. Actually obtaining it would be possible but you may encounter difficulties when the insurer seeks to verify your licence with DVLA - assuming you have notified them of your change of address outside the UK. They won't reissue your licence but it is an offence not to inform them. Or, in the event of a claim, and it transpires the you are non resident. Not alone will you be liable for the full payout but also likely to face prosecution (the UK being less forgiving of motoring offences than Ireland) for making false statements to obtain insurance. This is a dishonesty offence which can preclude you from many jobs. Go ahead if you want but it would seem more sensible to try and find a cost effective method within the rules.

shaunr68

galwaytt wrote: »

It's based on residency of the driver. The Finance Act 1997 is what did this iirc under Bertie Ahern as minister at the time.

As an Irish resident you can't drive a foreign registered vehicle.

Thanks for the definitive, informative response.

Looks like if and when this purchase happens, I'll have to accept that I can never drive it here. That's not really a problem as the intent was always going to be to use it from the UK for continental trips.

Thanks all.

shaunr68

This does raise a few bizarre anomalies thinking about it.

The converse position to mine, that of an Irish person resident in the UK who in addition to his daily driver also has a vehicle in Ireland. Perhaps a runaround for regular visits home to visit friends and family. My understanding is that as the driver is a UK resident the vehicle should strictly speaking be "imported" and transferrred to UK plates, even if that vehicle never leaves Ireland. What would Revenue make of that I wonder?

Marcusm

shaunr68 wrote: »

This does raise a few bizarre anomalies thinking about it.

The converse position to mine, that of an Irish person resident in the UK who in addition to his daily driver also has a vehicle in Ireland. Perhaps a runaround for regular visits home to visit friends and family. My understanding is that as the driver is a UK resident the vehicle should strictly speaking be "imported" and transferrred to UK plates, even if that vehicle never leaves Ireland. What would Revenue make of that I wonder?

That's not an appropriate corollary. That person could not drive the Irish registered vehicle in the UK but is perfectly entitled to keep an Irish registered vehicle in Ireland provided it is appropriately registered. I have a former colleague who maintains twin cars in London and Galway, both appropriately insured. I know numerous people with such set ups in Spain and France. IN each case, the car does not cross borders.

The reason I focus on this is that I had two cars, was resident in London for 20 years and regularly had cars here for 90 days or so. I was always very careful to ensure not to breach insurance terms and to ensure that both were fully covered by the appropriate insurance.

Charles Babbage

shaunr68 wrote: »

Thanks

So it would be illegal, for example, for me to travel over to the UK, hire a van for the purposes of moving some household items and take the ferry to Ireland with said items?

Sounds rather draconian, but I appreciate the information.

There could be a case made for an actual cross border journey, but not beyond that.

And this has was not established by the 1997 Finance Act, it was the case before long before that.

shaunr68

Marcusm wrote: »

That's not an appropriate corollary. That person could not drive the Irish registered vehicle in the UK but is perfectly entitled to keep an Irish registered vehicle in Ireland provided it is appropriately registered. I have a former colleague who maintains twin cars in London and Galway, both appropriately insured. I know numerous people with such set ups in Spain and France. IN each case, the car does not cross borders.

Many thanks

So in the case of your friend, what if he wanted to bring his Galway car over to the UK for a short time? Why would he if he already has a car over there? Well lets suppose it is a classic car and he wants to take it to a classic car show in Wales. Or a motorbike and he wants to go to a bike show in Peterborough. Or, mirroring my scenario, it is a motorhome and he wants to bring it over to the UK temporarily to tour the Highlands for a couple of weeks. As I understand it the only way he can do this legitimately as a UK resident is to import it and transfer it to UK plates, and as a UK resident he is under no obligation to export it back again afterwards when he returns it to Ireland. Because as has been pointed out by another poster, the rules are based on the residency of the driver rather than the usual location of the vehicle.

Marcusm wrote: »

I know numerous people with such set ups in Spain and France. IN each case, the car does not cross borders.

Me too, in my case the friends with the apartment in Cyprus.

However in the case of our yet to be purchased motorhome, it most certainly will cross borders, and why not? We visited 26 countries in our last one. It seems crazy that in our UK reg MH we will be able to travel all over the continent, but will not be able to visit our country of residence even for a few weeks.

Marcusm

shaunr68 wrote: »

Many thanks

So in the case of your friend, what if he wanted to bring his Galway car over to the UK for a short time? Why would he if he already has a car over there? Well lets suppose it is a classic car and he wants to take it to a classic car show in Wales. Or a motorbike and he wants to go to a bike show in Peterborough. Or, mirroring my scenario, it is a motorhome and he wants to bring it over to the UK temporarily to tour the Highlands for a couple of weeks. As I understand it the only way he can do this legitimately as a UK resident is to import it and transfer it to UK plates, and as a UK resident he is under no obligation to export it back again afterwards when he returns it to Ireland. Because as has been pointed out by another poster, the rules are based on the residency of the driver rather than the usual location of the vehicle.

Me too, in my case the friends with the apartment in Cyrpus.

However in the case of our yet to be purchased motorhome, it most certainly will cross borders, and why not? We visited 26 countries in our last one. It seems crazy that in our UK reg MH we will be able to travel all over the continent, but will not be able to visit our country of residence even for a few weeks.

My friend is a she!

From a public policy perspective, to allow a person to ordinarily drive a foreign registered car in the country of his/her normal residence would open up widespread abuse. Remember these rules were drafted 25 years ago (at least). Even now there is not automatic information sharing between countries. This would make it impossible for the gardai to enforce traffic laws if a substantial portion of Irish residents were driving foreign registered cars for which the authorities had no access to ownership data.

ION08

So if you have a holiday home abroad and also have a car registered at your holiday home, you can drive that car anywhere in Europe but you can never set foot with that car in Ireland? ... that's absolutely ridiculous.

I get the idea that if you are resident in Ireland, your normal day to day car must also be registered in Ireland but saying an irish resident can't drive a foreign reg car in ireland point blank is just an absurd law.

There are so many variables in this situation. They should allow some discretionary period of time such as 30 days or something. Like a car "Visa"

grogi

ION08 wrote: »

There are so many variables in this situation. They should allow some discretionary period of time such as 30 days or something. Like a car "Visa"

Again I'd like to point to Dutch solutions. One can drive a foreign car for a short period of time (2 weeks AFAIK) provided this was notified to the authorities before the car entered the state.

aujopimur

Register the camper in Ireland, problem solved.

Marcusm

ION08 wrote: »

So if you have a holiday home abroad and also have a car registered at your holiday home, you can drive that car anywhere in Europe but you can never set foot with that car in Ireland? ... that's absolutely ridiculous.

I get the idea that if you are resident in Ireland, your normal day to day car must also be registered in Ireland but saying an irish resident can't drive a foreign reg car in ireland point blank is just an absurd law.

There are so many variables in this situation. They should allow some discretionary period of time such as 30 days or something. Like a car "Visa"

You can always apply to Revenue for a temporary waiver. There are few circumstances in which they would be likely to provide it but it certainly won't be a broad exemption; how could it be enforced.

ION08

Marcusm wrote: »

You can always apply to Revenue for a temporary waiver. There are few circumstances in which they would be likely to provide it but it certainly won't be a broad exemption; how could it be enforced.

Well we do live on an island so proof of entry and then proof of exit before a set date would seem logical.

If no proof of exit is submitted before a certain date, you pay a penalty and the car cannot leave the island until penalty is paid.

shaunr68

ION08 wrote: »

Well we do live on an island so proof of entry and then proof of exit before a set date would seem logical.

If no proof of exit is submitted before a certain date, you pay a penalty and the car cannot leave the island until penalty is paid.

It does seem like a sensible solution. When we crossed the border from Latvia into Russia I had to fill in a load of forms, one of which was to allow temporary import of the vehicle into the country. When leaving the country they cross check everything including VIN plates to make sure you are exporting the same vehicle! Simple enough process and Russia is a colossal country with borders in two continents and some very odd neighbours.

Crossing between the Republic and the North does complicate matters, you can't go stopping people from driving freely across the border; perhaps these measures could be introduced across GB & Ireland. With the prevalence of ANPR cameras these days in theory the whole thing could be tracked seamlessly without hindering the driver at all.

shaunandelly

The op seems to say that he is resident. But for people here from elsewhere in EU how long before their residency status draws that definite line in the stand,is it the 280 day rule? Or is it the 3 year rule?

shaunandelly

The op seems to say that he is resident. But for people here from elsewhere in EU how long before their residency status draws that definite line in the stand,is it the 280 day rule? Or is it the 3 year rule?

CiniO

aujopimur wrote: »

Register the camper in Ireland, problem solved.

No, it won't be solved because then OP won't be able to keep the camper in UK for prelonged time like he is planning (I think it's 12 months limit for foreign vehicle in UK).

Esel

CiniO wrote: »

No, it won't be solved because then OP won't be able to keep the camper in UK for prelonged time like he is planning (I think it's 12 months limit for foreign vehicle in UK).

If it leaves the UK within 12 months, would the 'clock' not start again when it re-enters?