marriage in trouble

beagagusbron

Hi all. I'm a new user but long time reader. I'm a 42yo man with one 6yo son.
As the title states, my marriage is in trouble.
The seed of the problem was always there but it blew up about two years ago when my wife checked my search history and found images of semi naked women. She freaked and I don't blame her for doing so. I know many people are fine with watching porn... but if I'm honest we're both quite prudish/naive and, in the context of our relationship, what I did was wrong. I apologized and it has never occurred again.
Now the issue: she cannot let it go and forgive. Moreover, she makes stuff up about me having affairs (I haven't) and treats these things as facts for a period, until she lets it slide without apology. This has happened numerous times.
Obviously her trust has been broken, but in truth it was never there to begin with. She is very insecure and she has always had a deep insecurity in relationships. Recently she admits to being controlling but I feel she has no understanding how this affects my mental health. We went to a counselor both separately and together, something I got/get a lot out of. My wife didn't though as the counselor suggested that she may be abusive. She really needs to go back as she is struggling and needs to talk to a professional but I think she fears it being suggested again.
I do love her and want the marriage to work. I know I'm not the perfect husband but I know I'm quite good. I know she's a good person, with insecurity issues. I did not understand any of this stuff when we were younger when we met but I need to now. How do I get someone to go to therapy who 'has to build up her trust in it'.

Many thanks (sorry about the rambling)

Another day

If she cannot or will not let it go maybe it is time to call it quits. I don't say that lightly. You have both attended counselling which is good. The counsellor is partly correct in it being abusive, I say partly because some people cannot let hurt go and she is using it as a stick to beat you with.

I would have one last conversation with her about the whole issue. Explain clearly the effect her inability to move on is having on you and that you are approaching decision time. Your marriage is in her hands, either she returns to counselling and gets to the bottom of her issues or you call it quits. Show her support in every other way but this argument has to stop, she has to trust you completely and from what you say you haven't given her any other reason to doubt you.

Best of luck

judeboy101

Semi naked women? Ffs OP, it wasn't midget porn!! She's using it as excuse and you are young enough to start over.

Teyla Emmagan

I'm not sure why you want it to work OP, she sounds awful.

professore

Let's be honest here, if you watch any TV or even go out on a hot day or look at any billboard advertising you will see semi naked women (and men) everywhere. She has a problem. Also sounds like you have a problem with your natural urges. I think you both need some serious counseling.

Another day

professore wrote: »

Let's be honest here, if you watch any TV or even go out on a hot day or look at any billboard advertising you will see semi naked women (and men) everywhere. She has a problem. Also sounds like you have a problem with your natural urges. I think you both need some serious counseling.

Gosh that's harsh on the Op. Where does anything in his post suggest he has issues!???

beagagusbron

Hi guys. Thanks for all of your replies - they are really helpful.
I take your suggestions that an ultimatum over her returning to counselling is what's needed. I'm just scared to say it to her. I'm very passive and avoid confrontation at all costs (I know, man up!). Having said that I am at least turning towards the reality that it's one or the other - fix the issues or end the marriage.
Some of the stuff that she has come out with regarding affairs/cheating is crazy. And there is where one of my concerns lie - it might be that she is mentally ill.
An example is where she got it into her head that I was having an affair with a women that works at one of the clubs our son goes to. So we were walking in the park one day and this woman walked by and 'looked' at me. I looked away uncomfortably. Obviously, none of this happened, apart from maybe this woman walked by us. I have no idea who she is. Tall, short, hair colour... nothing. But my wife's gut feeling tells her that something isn't quite right. This issue returns to her every so often and causes both of us a lot of angst.
What concerns me is that she is my wife, we've been together for more than 15 years. I don't want her to suffer some form of mental illness and leave. I should try to support her but don't know how to get through to her. Another concern is that we have a son and the son always goes with the mam. My wife is English and I guess would return there. I would miss my son dearly.
Again, thanks for the replies. It's good to have unbiased fresh eyes on the situation. My head is fried!!!!!

Dixie Chick

Hi OP

My heart goes out to you. Whether its was as another poster said "midget porn" or just a few naked pictures is irrelevant really as she feels that you have broken her trust.

There is so much here that I could post but the crux of it is that I do think she has abused you. You obviously cannot look sideways or face an accusation. if this was a woman posting that her husband was acting like this then it would be easier to label as so.

I do think that you need to have the conversation with her that you are feeling under extreme pressure now. She may construe this as you trying to get out of the marriage to be with someone else...or some other nonsense. But I do agree that she is using these images as a stick to beat you with.

You are young and I know that logically you know that it is more than ok to appreciate a picture of a woman online or whatever. I wish you the best of luck but if she is ill and is not accepting it then there is nothing you can do but strongly urge her into counselling and then make your decisions based on what she does.

LushiousLips

Your wife really needs to go to counselling and you need to give her the ultimatum. It may show her how serious you are about this and want her to receive the treatment she needs. The ball is in her court.
Good luck OP x

rcarroll

woooaaaaa just a second hold on here....that's a massive leap to start saying your wife is mentally ill because she's acting in a way you don't like yet won't challenge her on it...I think you need to be careful about how you portray your wife both to yourself and to others, some things aren't easy to take back.

first of all, whether it's ok or not to watch porn depends on the person. However, I think majority of people would be ok with it, even if not entirely pro-porn. However, in your relationship it was established that it's not ok.

So, how do you feel about it now? Has your opinion changed and now you wish she would too? Because if so, that's a conversation you need to have to re-establish what's ok in a relationship and not. And to be fair, if that's the case and you feel you didn't cross the lines by watching porn, then it's YOU who changed the goalpost and not her and now expect her to fall into line. Not ok behaviour, regardless of whether I or anyone else thinks porn is ok. If you have changed the goalposts, you need to sit down and have a chat with her about that and see is she ok with continuing with the new order.

Now, second rather alarming response for me is that instead of pushing for counselling or accepting the relationship might be over, you've gone straight for the old faithful of 'the woman is clearly mad'....without having the courage to challenge her or face her on this, you're writing her off as mentally ill...I'm sure I don't need to give you a history lesson on how in the past men have jumped to the 'she's crazy lock her up' when a woman hasn't fallen into line for them in the past. Or indeed, how quick a lot of men today are at claiming she's a bunny boiler/psycho etc without checking their own actions first. Hence, re-read the above paragraph - have you now decided porn is ok and are annoyed she's not fine with it? Because from what I see, you broke her trust. Her reacting with jealousy and insecurity is normal behaviour not mentally ill. Is it damaging? Yes, to both of you and I'd recommend finding a way to draw a line under it - get a counseller to help you both move on.

Now, the third and most important point is- is this a healthy environment for either of you...no. She's dragging you over the coals for the past two years - time to either forgive and let go, or move on. I think you need to spell it out to her that she risks losing the relationship over her behaviour, and it's not ok for you to have to suffer reams of abuse over a sidewise look. HOwever, in cases where the partner has cheated (in this case, it seems like you both see porn as equivalant), it can take time to build back trust. Also, it takes the cheating partner recognising the effect of his/her behaviour on the other and really accepting the consequences and working to fix things.

That's why I'd wonder if you really accept that what you did was wrong. If it were me, I wouldn't - viewing porn isn't a transgression or a betrayel in the relationship. Therefore, I would find it hard to truly make amends, and it's something I would want to revisit in the relationship as to whether it's ok or not. If though, you agree with her, and have recognised how 'bad' what you did was, and have made efforts to go to counselling together etc and it hasn't worked, I'd be re-evaluating how much more I can put into a relationship where I'm always the guilty party.

Dixie Chick

rcarroll wrote: »

woooaaaaa just a second hold on here....that's a massive leap to start saying your wife is mentally ill because she's acting in a way you don't like yet won't challenge her on it...I think you need to be careful about how you portray your wife both to yourself and to others, some things aren't easy to take back.

first of all, whether it's ok or not to watch porn depends on the person. However, I think majority of people would be ok with it, even if not entirely pro-porn. However, in your relationship it was established that it's not ok.

So, how do you feel about it now? Has your opinion changed and now you wish she would too? Because if so, that's a conversation you need to have to re-establish what's ok in a relationship and not. And to be fair, if that's the case and you feel you didn't cross the lines by watching porn, then it's YOU who changed the goalpost and not her and now expect her to fall into line. Not ok behaviour, regardless of whether I or anyone else thinks porn is ok. If you have changed the goalposts, you need to sit down and have a chat with her about that and see is she ok with continuing with the new order.

Now, second rather alarming response for me is that instead of pushing for counselling or accepting the relationship might be over, you've gone straight for the old faithful of 'the woman is clearly mad'....without having the courage to challenge her or face her on this, you're writing her off as mentally ill...I'm sure I don't need to give you a history lesson on how in the past men have jumped to the 'she's crazy lock her up' when a woman hasn't fallen into line for them in the past. Or indeed, how quick a lot of men today are at claiming she's a bunny boiler/psycho etc without checking their own actions first. Hence, re-read the above paragraph - have you now decided porn is ok and are annoyed she's not fine with it? Because from what I see, you broke her trust. Her reacting with jealousy and insecurity is normal behaviour not mentally ill. Is it damaging? Yes, to both of you and I'd recommend finding a way to draw a line under it - get a counseller to help you both move on.

Now, the third and most important point is- is this a healthy environment for either of you...no. She's dragging you over the coals for the past two years - time to either forgive and let go, or move on. I think you need to spell it out to her that she risks losing the relationship over her behaviour, and it's not ok for you to have to suffer reams of abuse over a sidewise look. HOwever, in cases where the partner has cheated (in this case, it seems like you both see porn as equivalant), it can take time to build back trust. Also, it takes the cheating partner recognising the effect of his/her behaviour on the other and really accepting the consequences and working to fix things.

That's why I'd wonder if you really accept that what you did was wrong. If it were me, I wouldn't - viewing porn isn't a transgression or a betrayel in the relationship. Therefore, I would find it hard to truly make amends, and it's something I would want to revisit in the relationship as to whether it's ok or not. If though, you agree with her, and have recognised how 'bad' what you did was, and have made efforts to go to counselling together etc and it hasn't worked, I'd be re-evaluating how much more I can put into a relationship where I'm always the guilty party.

I actually feel like I read a different opening post to you.

groovyg

Dixie Chick wrote: »

I actually feel like I read a different opening post to you.

same here -:eek: is this even related to the OP

Zen65

beagagusbron wrote: »

Now the issue: she cannot let it go and forgive. Moreover, she makes stuff up about me having affairs (I haven't) and treats these things as facts for a period, until she lets it slide without apology. This has happened numerous times.

This is the heart of the issue that needs to be discussed with somebody who can help you, as a couple. I think most of us here don't see the 'porn' thing as being a serious indiscretion on your part, but making up stuff about you that isn't true and 'punishing' you for that is genuinely abusive, whatever her intentions are. She needs help to see that, and she needs to want that help, or it will not result in any change. If she is unwilling to continue with a counselor, might she be able to identify somebody else (preferably independent) whose advice she would accept? It may not be as clean as engaging with a trained counselor, but you are facing a problem as a couple that I cannot see being resolved from within.

Fakediamond

I'm wondering if there were signs of lack of trust, abusive and controlling behaviour before the porn incident? I suspect that is what the counsellor was picking up on during sessions. Your wife may be lacking in insight or ownership into her part in any issues in the relationship.

You are concerned about mental illness, but a mental illness is usually diagnosable and treatable, e.g. psychosis, schizophrenia, etc. To my knowledge, it can't just be switched on and off to suit the situation at hand. Bad behaviour is different and can be used against you at will, as your wife appears to be doing.

One last thing, don't assume that a woman will automatically get custody of a child. An abusive parent is very damaging to a child's welfare, regardless of the sex of that parent.

Jurgen Klopp

groovyg wrote: »

same here -:eek: is this even related to the OP

Tis, but unfortunately reads like personal baggage is influencing the "advice" being given

beagagusbron

Hi guys.
Yeah the false accusations had gone on throughout relationship which is what the counselor was getting at, although they are obviously more frequent and strange!
With regard to the mental illness, I think it was a poor choice by me to term it like that - I really haven't got a clue how to define it.
Your advice is clear though and I'm going to follow through on it - therapy or go our separate ways. I'll do it gently and hope that we can mend the relationship and live a happy life together, but no to continuing with the status quo.
Thanks very much for all of your supportive and well thought out advice.

Paddy Cow

beagagusbron wrote: »

I take your suggestions that an ultimatum over her returning to counselling is what's needed.

Please do not do this. I struggled with depression and anxiety for years. When I finally went to my GP I was referred for counselling. The first set of 6 sessions did more damage than good. I ended up a complete mess as the counsellor wanted to focus on certain things that I didn't. My second session went much better and the counsellor was more understanding but it still didn't resolve my issues.

I'm now going to CBT and it's great. CBT isn't about talking about your feelings. It's more about training your brain to think in a more positive fashion. A counsellor will say "you are being abusive" which would get anyone's back up, whereas in CBT it's more a case of "you have some issues with control which you own, now lets look at ways you can change that". It's a far more empowering way of changing negative thinking and behavioural patterns.

For years the mantra with dealing with mental health problems has been "talk to someone" or "go see a counsellor". This is changing though and CBT is becoming more mainstream. Sometimes talking can help but when you've been living with a certain mindset for years, talking is not enough. I think given your wife's insecurities she would greatly benefit from CBT. This is not medical advice but my own personal experience.

Ask your wife to consider it. Explain to her that's it's non judgemental ie it doesn't rely on someone listening to her and picking apart her personality based on their opinion. She won't be told she has any faults/flaws but will be able to work on building her self-esteem etc.

If your wife could sort out her insecurities, it sounds like you would have a happy marriage. Please don't throw that away over an ultimatum. Maybe buy a book on CBT and ask her to read it as a way to bring it up. Even read it yourself and you will gain a lot from it on how to deal with your own boundaries and expectations, without resorting to confrontation.

I wish you all the best

milli milli

If your wife could sort out her insecurities, it sounds like you would have a happy marriage.

Yes I agree. Your wife is extremely insecure. I'm ashamed to say when I was much, much younger I behaved quite similar to your wife. I'd accuse my boyfriend of looking at other women, that caused over-the-top fights (fuelled by alcohol). It was a nightmare.
We were talking about fantasies one time and he mentioned a threesome and my reflex reaction was he was going to cheat on me.
My over-the-top, crazy reactions might have looked psycho and as if I'd had a mental illness.
I was convinced he'd leave me and the reality was I pushed him away.


Thankfully now after growing up, going to different counselling over the years and working on my own self-belief and confidence, I see the error of it all.
Your wife needs counselling for herself - she needs to work on herself first and foremost. Not marriage counselling just yet. Let her work on getting to the root of her insecurities.

OP you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. You looked at a few raunchy pics. It's completely normal. It doesn't mean you're going to cheat on your wife. It's the same with porn. People watch it to get off. They're not fantasising about running away with the pornstars and making families.
It means absolutely nothing, you're scratching an itch. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife or don't want to sleep with her.

alberto67

OP, talk to her again. Be genuine, tell her what you deeply think and maybe the situation will improve. Don't keep things in or give up.

Neyite

Mod:

andekwarhola, I've deleted your post. In PI we expect that posters offer advice in a helpful and constructive manner. Your post was nothing more than a potshot at someone who took the time to try to help the OP and that's not acceptable here.

The next post similar to the one I've just deleted will earn you a warning.

Keyzer

professore wrote: »

Also sounds like you have a problem with your natural urges. I think you both need some serious counseling.

Fúck me, thats possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on Boards. He looked a picture of a woman. He didn't whip his lad out on a bus and pleasure himself.

Jesus christ, give the bloke a break.

kylith

Keyzer wrote: »

Fúck me, thats possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on Boards. He looked a picture of a woman. He didn't whip his lad out on a bus and pleasure himself.

Jesus christ, give the bloke a break.

I think professore may have meant that he has a problem in that he thinks there's something 'wrong' about looking at pictures of scantily clad ladies.

postitgirl

Hi

Much of what your wife is feeling is familiar to me. I had many episodes thinking partner cheating etc etc. To the stage where we were very close to ending it. Its not as simple as just labeling someone a jealous psycho etc etc as people here often do. Noone wants to feel jealous etc, its often an insecurity or issue not dealt with or just negative though patterns built up overtime that may of Ben triggered by an event. CBT saved our relationship and changed my life in so many ways. Over the years we can get into a way of thinking that works on auto, without addressing these thoughts and the thought patterns and connecting them to our behaviour and actions and feelings, nothing will change. Once I was able identify a negative thought pattern I would use the skills I learned through CBT to change this thought or brush it away. I am not sure where abouts your based but if it is in Dublin I can PM you the name of someone i went to.
You sound like you want to work things out. They are part of your vows after all. You need to let your wife know that you are 100% there for her on this journey but that she needs to make the changes to address these insecurities for herself, your relationship and your family.

Koptain Liverpool

rcarroll wrote: »

woooaaaaa just a second hold on here....that's a massive leap to start saying your wife is mentally ill because she's acting in a way you don't like yet won't challenge her on it...I think you need to be careful about how you portray your wife both to yourself and to others, some things aren't easy to take back.

first of all, whether it's ok or not to watch porn depends on the person. However, I think majority of people would be ok with it, even if not entirely pro-porn. However, in your relationship it was established that it's not ok.

So, how do you feel about it now? Has your opinion changed and now you wish she would too? Because if so, that's a conversation you need to have to re-establish what's ok in a relationship and not. And to be fair, if that's the case and you feel you didn't cross the lines by watching porn, then it's YOU who changed the goalpost and not her and now expect her to fall into line. Not ok behaviour, regardless of whether I or anyone else thinks porn is ok. If you have changed the goalposts, you need to sit down and have a chat with her about that and see is she ok with continuing with the new order.

Now, second rather alarming response for me is that instead of pushing for counselling or accepting the relationship might be over, you've gone straight for the old faithful of 'the woman is clearly mad'....without having the courage to challenge her or face her on this, you're writing her off as mentally ill...I'm sure I don't need to give you a history lesson on how in the past men have jumped to the 'she's crazy lock her up' when a woman hasn't fallen into line for them in the past. Or indeed, how quick a lot of men today are at claiming she's a bunny boiler/psycho etc without checking their own actions first. Hence, re-read the above paragraph - have you now decided porn is ok and are annoyed she's not fine with it? Because from what I see, you broke her trust. Her reacting with jealousy and insecurity is normal behaviour not mentally ill. Is it damaging? Yes, to both of you and I'd recommend finding a way to draw a line under it - get a counseller to help you both move on.

Now, the third and most important point is- is this a healthy environment for either of you...no. She's dragging you over the coals for the past two years - time to either forgive and let go, or move on. I think you need to spell it out to her that she risks losing the relationship over her behaviour, and it's not ok for you to have to suffer reams of abuse over a sidewise look. HOwever, in cases where the partner has cheated (in this case, it seems like you both see porn as equivalant), it can take time to build back trust. Also, it takes the cheating partner recognising the effect of his/her behaviour on the other and really accepting the consequences and working to fix things.

That's why I'd wonder if you really accept that what you did was wrong. If it were me, I wouldn't - viewing porn isn't a transgression or a betrayel in the relationship. Therefore, I would find it hard to truly make amends, and it's something I would want to revisit in the relationship as to whether it's ok or not. If though, you agree with her, and have recognised how 'bad' what you did was, and have made efforts to go to counselling together etc and it hasn't worked, I'd be re-evaluating how much more I can put into a relationship where I'm always the guilty party.

professore

kylith wrote: »

Keyzer wrote: »

Fúck me, thats possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on Boards. He looked a picture of a woman. He didn't whip his lad out on a bus and pleasure himself.

Jesus christ, give the bloke a break.

I think professore may have meant that he has a problem in that he thinks there's something 'wrong' about looking at pictures of scantily clad ladies.

Yes that's what I meant.