Why are they not firing Noirin O'Sullivan?

blackcard

It would seem to me that it would be a popular thing to do. Show that they are not afraid of being decisive. I think even the rank and file gardai would be in favour of it. So why don't they fire Her?

BowSideChamp

Fire the judges. A ****ing scumbag has 100 convictions and gets bail. No wonder the moral in the Gardai is rock bottom.

StupidLikeAFox

FIRE EVERYBODY!

Shelga

Because she's a woman.

Uriel.

What will firing her achieve exactly?
AGS management needs a significant cultural overhaul. It's a complete reboot that's required in terms of senior management. A lot of the issues lately are things she inherited in the position she's in now, but most filter through the organisation culture and have done so for many years.

Junkyard Tom

My Uncle said that you should always fight fire with fire and that's why he was thrown out of the Fire Brigade.

eeguy

They provably know there's a heap more sh*t to come with AGS so they're keeping her so she can take more of the blame.

Zaph

Because she's gone on holidays and if she's sensible about it hasn't told them where she's going and has left her phone at home.

dreamers75

She is absolute **** of a person who knows how to work the ecosystem she is in.

I honestly cant believe she has a job then I realize I live in Ireland and meh its grand.

Dinarius

Firing O'Sullivan would mean having to do something about a problem that has been there since long before she arrived.

There is a perception amongst some critics that firing her would solve the problem. This is laughable.

The problems in the Gardai are endemic and longstanding. They did not start with O'Sullivan.

What we need is an independent bureau of internal affairs, that could investigate, arrest and prosecute, where necessary.

But, this is a tiny (miniscule!) country, and such a thing would be very hard to operate effectively. Everyone is only a degree or two separated from everyone else. Independent operation would be extremely difficult.

Of course something has to be done. But, firing O'Sullivan would only leave a huge, and extremely uncomfortable void, that would have to be filled. Varadkar and his band of merry (right-wing, unaccounatable) men know this only too well. So, sitting on their hands is the easy option.

O'Sullivan has proved herself extremely adept at fighting flack (she wouldn't have gotten where she is otherwise). Leo can see this only too well. So, why replace her? Zero accountability, on all sides, is in our national genes, after all.

D.

REXER

blackcard wrote: »

It would seem to me that it would be a popular thing to do. Show that they are not afraid of being decisive. I think even the rank and file gardai would be in favour of it. So why don't they fire Her?

Because she has the dirt on the lot of them!

Mongfinder General

Who are "they"?

flazio

Seriously though, you have to have strong enough grounds that you won't lose an unfair dismissal case in court.

Mrs OBumble

Because then they'd have to find someonw else to take the job.

Frankly, anyone who wants it would have to be crazy.

suicide_circus

Diversity

jbt123

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

FIRE EVERYBODY!

Fire! Everybody out.....

Pat Mustard

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Fire the judges. A ****ing scumbag has 100 convictions and gets bail. No wonder the moral in the Gardai is rock bottom.

Another option would be to get rid of the presumption of innocence and allow people to rot in prison pending trial, like Soviet Russia.

The morale in guards is low because of bad Garda management.

Calnan resigns and his right hand woman starts running the show. She is of the same mould as Calnan.

The Garda upper echelons need to be weeded out, retired, put out to pasture and we need a new Garda Commissioner, possibly from outside the Gardai or possibly recruited from police overseas.

Cee-Jay-Cee

If they fire her no one else would take the job with the mess it's in at the moment and the next scandal is probably only around the corner and so they'd have to sack the next person too.

satguy

This fight has boiled down to ...

A head to head between ..

A very sharp lady and a rather dim politician.
Both are pure scumbags ...

My money is on the cop !

Sand

I don't understand what sacking O'Sullivan is supposed to achieve. The issues seem to be longstanding and shes not yet personally culpable for any of them to my knowledge. Shes nominally at least committed to the reform agenda. Sacking her doesn't make any sense unless there is someone clearly better waiting to take over. There isnt.

Fighting Tao

Zaph wrote: »

Because she's gone on holidays and if she's sensible about it hasn't told them where she's going and has left her phone at home.

Sure she's already lost her phone!

snowflaker

Zaph wrote: »

Because she's gone on holidays and if she's sensible about it hasn't told them where she's going and has left her phone at home.

She lost it on holidays, and all the sim cards, and can't recall reading an email, ever!

CPTM

I think she started off in the wrong way. She should have started by talking about the terrible shape the gardai are in and that it's time for a clean up in almost every area. She could have gotten a good few years out of that, making small improvements along the way and showing the changes she made.

Instead, she put on a front that everything is completely fine and then side stepping any challenge to that theory, which actually shows her up as being part of the real problem that exists behind all these headlines we're seeing.

Spanish Eyes

Would she perhaps know where "the bodies are buried" and that is why everyone in the Dail is pussyfooting around her?

She has the files! She knows the dirt!

But seriously, this is a joke, but having said that the woman has cojones no doubt about it.

Yamanoto

Alan Dukes was on radio yesterday & said something I'd not heard from a politician before.

He said there's been an oft-repeated platitude, that Irish folks have always had great regard for the Garda Síochána & he doesn't necessarily think that stands up to scrutiny. It's a viewpoint I'd tend to chime with tbh & speaking with pals who'd all be law abiding & conscientious citizens, there's a common theme of being quite underwhelmed and disappointed by interactions folks have had with the force.

UrbanSprawl

dreamers75 wrote: »

She is absolute **** of a person .

so you know her personally?

dfx-

Dinarius wrote: »

Firing O'Sullivan would mean having to do something about a problem that has been there since long before she arrived.

There is a perception amongst some critics that firing her would solve the problem. This is laughable.

The problems in the Gardai are endemic and longstanding. They did not start with O'Sullivan.

What we need is an independent bureau of internal affairs, that could investigate, arrest and prosecute, where necessary.

But, this is a tiny (miniscule!) country, and such a thing would be very hard to operate effectively. Everyone is only a degree or two separated from everyone else. Independent operation would be extremely difficult.

Of course something has to be done. But, firing O'Sullivan would only leave a huge, and extremely uncomfortable void, that would have to be filled. Varadkar and his band of merry (right-wing, unaccounatable) men know this only too well. So, sitting on their hands is the easy option.

O'Sullivan has proved herself extremely adept at fighting flack (she wouldn't have gotten where she is otherwise). Leo can see this only too well. So, why replace her? Zero accountability, on all sides, is in our national genes, after all.

D.

I agree considerably here. She is a product of the hierarchy that brought her to the position.

But how can any change be made with her in place? Whether things improve without her, they certainly won't if she hangs around. She certainly isn't going to change.

I don't know if she's adept at fighting flack or that she's being obstinate and genuinely/arrogantly believing she can see this off. Which she probably can given she is unbelievably still there. Brazening things out is all the rage.

ED E

Replace her and her whole team with experienced officers from UK forces, or elsewhere (just not the states).

UrbanSprawl

ED E wrote: »

Replace her and her whole team with experienced officers from UK forces, or elsewhere (just not the states).

Replace her and her whole team with experienced officers from UK forces

Awesome Idea British soldiers on the streets,do u thubnk we must import law and oder officals ..lets replace her with Bosco or a carbon rod ..anyway who gives a fig law and order is dead and gone its with o'learys penalty save in the past.:pac:

Cyrus

Dinarius wrote: »

Of course something has to be done. But, firing O'Sullivan would only leave a huge, and extremely uncomfortable void, that would have to be filled. Varadkar and his band of merry (right-wing, unaccounatable) men know this only too well.

Are his merry men unaccountable because they are right wing ? Are all the lefties inherently accountable?

Annasopra

The reason upto now recently was that for Enda Kenny to lose 1 commissioner reflected badly enough on him and to lose 2 might have finished his career there and then.

Dinarius

Cyrus wrote: »

Are his merry men unaccountable because they are right wing ? Are all the lefties inherently accountable?

As we've seen recently, and as I said in my post (which you selectively edited) lack of accountability is endemic in Irish society, and it is not restricted to politicians of any given hue. I never said it was.

That said; do I not like FG's brand of right-wing arrogance? No, I don't. But, I equally detest the likes of Paul Murphy's left-wing, obstructionist populism.

D.

Why should she be sacked? She has a job to do. Let her get on with it. Sacking her now would still leave the problems. Imagine if she was replaced? A few months down the line people would be shouting for that person to be sacked.

Because of sex. She uses her sexuality to control men.

In before chore sex guy.

Wanderer78

I suspect it's partly to do with 'stability, stability, stability'!

_Brian

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Another option would be to get rid of the presumption of innocence and allow people to rot in prison pending trial, like Soviet Russia.

The morale in guards is low because of bad Garda management.

Calnan resigns and his right hand woman starts running the show. She is of the same mould as Calnan.

The Garda upper echelons need to be weeded out, retired, put out to pasture and we need a new Garda Commissioner, possibly from outside the Gardai or possibly recruited from police overseas.

Presumption of innocence is all fine, but when someone notches up 100 convictions I'm starting to think that they don't deserve to be given that freedom of thought to have committed further crime.
We're not tackling that problem, not because of the "presumed innocent" crap but the cost, there are so many of these knaxkers revolving through the bail system with 100+ convictions that the cost of keeping them in waiting trial would be crippling.

They're not exactly the KGB known for their surveillance and secrecy.

That's mostly why I don't believe your theory, because I just don't believe some fellow who dreams of owning a second hand Beemer and guzzling fat frogs on a Friday night is part of an organisation controlling files with a "world of dirt" on a major party.

Cyrus

Dinarius wrote: »

As we've seen recently, and as I said in my post (which you selectively edited) lack of accountability is endemic in Irish society, and it is not restricted to politicians of any given hue. I never said it was.

That said; do I not like FG's brand of right-wing arrogance? No, I don't. But, I equally detest the likes of Paul Murphy's left-wing, obstructionist populism.

D.

Fair enough

I didn't edit your post by the way, just quoted a section

mad m

Id say there is even more $hite to come out, they will wait till its all out then point the finger and say here is your P45 love.....

fergiesfolly

Its not like she walked in off the street to take on the Commissioners position.
She is a member of the Gardai over 35 years and has held high rank for over 10 years including 3 years in her current role.
If system failures, corrupt practices and even fraud are endemic within the Gardai, she must face the consequences of that.
I haven't seen an open, honest account from her since her tenure has begun. She has turned her role into something almost completely political and I have zero confidence in her.
She has to go. And I can only presume Varadkar is biding his time before lowering the boom. Otherwise, his position will become as untenable as his predecessor.

Are Am Eye

She gets her full pension next November. Certainly won't go
before then.

Sunning herself now in Torremolinos, she doesn't care about
enquiries, tribunals or government committees. Or the half million
plus of tax payers money spent on her legal advice and pr spin
training to enable her to filibuster the Public Accounts Committee.

As for MaryAnne84 saying "she has a job to do"....she had a job to
do to report and act on the misappropriation of twenty million euro
of public money in Templemore and she failed to do so. The point is
she cannot do her job. Or cannot do it honestly. That usually earns the
sack. The sad thing here is that our system is so corrupt that the various
power brokers will support each other regardless of how badly they do their
job or how much their dishonesty and malfeasance are exposed.

blackcard

UrbanSprawl wrote: »

ED E wrote: »

Replace her and her whole team with experienced officers from UK forces, or elsewhere (just not the states).

Replace her and her whole team with experienced officers from UK forces

Awesome Idea British soldiers on the streets,do u thubnk we must import law and oder officals ..lets replace her with Bosco or a carbon rod ..anyway who gives a fig law and order is dead and gone its with o'learys penalty save in the past.:pac:

O'Leary's penalty save??

Ken.

Noirin O'Sullivan, Ireland's answer to J. Edgar Hoover. She most likely knows where the (metaphorical) bodies are buried and the politicians are bricking it. If she gets sacked or quits I'd expect a book within a year.

Wanderer78

Conspectus wrote: »

Noirin O'Sullivan, Ireland's answer to J. Edgar Hoover. She most likely knows where the (metaphorical) bodies are buried and the politicians are bricking it. If she gets sacked or quits I'd expect a book within a year.

books are kinna boring these days, id say she ll do im a celebrity!

myshirt

I like the dogged determination of Noirin. It can't be easy for her personally, but she digs the heels in and she is sincere in her committment. She doesn't crumble. You have to respect that. She has the character.

Stop for a moment though, and take the wider view. No one here is a knight on a white horse. We have to realise there are many with skin in the game here and a few strategic cards being played. If people could grasp the full extent and sinister nature of that, they'd nearly back Noirin. The media have a campaign to strongarm this State. And Sinn Fein, lads, make no mistake, these are some very very sinister people indeed.

However, what you do have and always had in the Garda is a toxic beyond belief culture. They have been overpaid and given lump sums and pensions they never should have been. It needs to be cut, and cut now, and cut more aggressively for the older members and current retired members. It can be done, don't let anyone tell you different. Noirin to go, and bring in an external person, that external person needs to immediately weed out the next guys that need to go, and identify people to promote quickly who can bring others with them on a path of change.

They haven't an easy job, as what you have here is a story of incredible greed and rampant self delusion amongst the 20yrs Service + members; a whole host of people who think they are above this State and who are smug in a belief they can do whatever they want and cover up whatever they want, spend what they want, and believe they are never, ever wrong. Cut the money of these people, get them out, the State needs rid of them.

_Kaiser_

She's still in place because we've swapped an arrogant out of touch Taoiseach who never did satisfactorily explain the sudden resignation of the last commissioner, for a Taoiseach more concerned with his image than doing anything significant about the issue.

O'Sullivan is only the latest symptom of the issues within AGS, not the cause. Nothing will change while she's in place of course but then that suits her and the political agenda.

The only thing that will fix AGS is a complete clear out and reform RUC/PSNI style, but it won't be happening with Leo at the controls.

WoollyRedHat

People backing Noirin O'Sullivan and asking what good it would do to remove her obviously don't follow the news. She is either woefully incompetent or plain complicit. There are 5 on going investigations into AGS at present, one focusing on misappropriation of funds in Templemore College, the E.U. are now involved, another the subject of a tribunal to discover if there was an orchestrated campaign to smear one of their rank and file with shady practices.

The previous disgraced commissioner and NOS boss and no doubt confidante was responsible for shredding 8 bags of documents on the day he left.

NOS has been at the very top of the organization while all these scandals were happening. Every time she appears on a public committee she slithers and ducks. She's the head of the organization, if it doesn't fall on her who does it fall on.. Sinn Fein in a calculated plot to undermine the state? Give me strength. The top eccheleons of the AGS are rotten to the core. As someone has suggested it needs whole scale reform ala the RUC. If there was any justice she would be given her marching orders. But unfortunately it would seem you have a government that is also complicit and don't have the courage to remove her. Members of which have done their utmost to state there unconditional confidence in the Commisioner, including An Taoiseach on the day the PAC released a report that was damning of NOS. It's a charade that everyone else is paying for.