State / Garda collusion with the Hutch mob?

Conspiratorius Maximus

I hope this thread doesn't contravene the rules - I did read the forum charter and I don't think I'm breaching it.  I've tried to avoid accusing anyone by name of committing a crime where that hasn't been proven in court, and tried not to name anyone in relation to rumours apart from where they were already published in national media.

I was wondering is anyone else a little curious / suspicious that the Gardaí and possibly someone higher up might be colluding with Gerry Hutch and his wider family / organisation?

It's suspected by many (but not proven, to the best of my knowledge) that his outfit is heavily involved in the distribution of drugs in parts of the north inner city, with the dealing taking place openly on the street and with very little apparent law enforcement.

At the day of the weigh-in at the Regency Hotel, law enforcement was conspicuously absent, despite widespread intelligence that major gangsters were likely to be in attendance.  There have been several rumours that there were in fact undercover Gardaí, and possibly even MI-6 agents in the room, although nothing concrete.  Why was there no visible presence, and why did no Gardaí show up until the hit team had made their getaway? 

The identities of a large number of the hit team (gunmen, drivers, planners etc.) are widely known in certain circles (again, not proven in a court), yet the only ones up on charges relating to the job are those who were photographed clearly fleeing from the scene, with the pictures being published in national media.  Why have none of the others known to be involved been charged?

Apparently Gerry Hutch himself was caught on an audio recording from a bugged van discussing the planning of the Regency job with Jonathan Dowdall (reported by several news outlets).  Why is there no European arrest warrant out for Hutch?

At least two of Gerry's very close associates are getting 24/7 protection from armed Gardaí.  Why is the state paying to have them protected, when they put themselves in harm's way in the first place?  If I pissed off Daniel Kinahan and ended up on his hit list, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't (and shouldn't) have armed Gardaí sitting on my place 24/7.

The main news outlets repeatedly spout a line about the feud starting with the murder of Gary Hutch, but emphatically fail to mention the events leading up to that.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but something really smells to me about the whole situation.  The scenarios that I have wondered about were:

a. Maybe the Hutch mob were given tacit approval from the powers that be to try to behead the Kinahan organisation.  Maybe they were seen as a lesser evil for some reason.

b. Gerry Hutch's dealings with Noel Duggan were well publicised, and Duggan's links to 'republican' smugglers was likewise well publicised.  Maybe the Hutch mob are seen as a useful source of intelligence on 'republican' activity.

c. A few Hutch associates were at one time involved with the Kinahans, so potentially useful sources of insider information on how the Kinahan mob operates.

Am I paranoid?  Am I seeing things that aren't there?  Are they really not touching any of the Hutch mob simply because they somehow can't pin enough evidence on them to get a conviction, or is there something more 'conspiratorial' at play?

Normally I'd laugh at such a conspiracy theory, but in light of things like the Mary Boyle case and the Maurice McCabe stuff, I'm not so sure anymore.

Overheal

You should see US Police forces. Get caught planting drugs, laundering money, all sorts of ****. I wouldn't discount the possibility.

If you could update your post's factual statements with links to said news reports or audio that would be appreciated, thank you

Ipso

Didn't The General steal files the related to the Niall Molloy case?

Conspiratorius Maximus

I have a heap of links to news sites to back up the various claims, but each time I try to post them I get an error message.  I suspect because I'm new I'm not allowed to post links.  Any of the claims can however be very easily verified with a quick web search.

ScumLord

The whole war on drugs could almost be considered a conspiracy, one that criminal gangs like the Hutch's get to benefit from but one they could easily be replaced in. The Hutch mob could be replaced with any group of people willing to play the game.

The war on drugs benefits no one but criminal gangs and the legal system. It's an excuse for the legal system to rack up massive bills and while I don't think the legal system have met and conspired to do specifically that I'm sure there are enough people in power that know the drug trade is making them a lot of money that they wouldn't be making if drugs were legal. So they won't support any kind of decriminalisation or legalisation but will fight it tooth and nail.

At the moment drug arrests give the legal system an easy way to look busy while ignoring serious violent crime because they don't have the time to deal with it. Thieft doesn't get solved and it's just accepted that they won't investigate it. Violent attacks are just brushed off as a lapse in judgement, but drug crime is an easy number with guaranteed repeat business.

wonderwall900

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

I have a heap of links to news sites to back up the various claims, but each time I try to post them I get an error message. I suspect because I'm new I'm not allowed to post links. Any of the claims can however be very easily verified with a quick web search.

You need 6 or more posts to post links so all you need is a few more to add links to this. An interesting read OP. I wouldn't mind seeing those links to back up your claims though.

cml387

By no means an outlandish consipracy theory.

Google Kieran Boylan

Truthtopower

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

I hope this thread doesn't contravene the rules - I did read the forum charter and I don't think I'm breaching it.  I've tried to avoid accusing anyone by name of committing a crime where that hasn't been proven in court, and tried not to name anyone in relation to rumours apart from where they were already published in national media.

I was wondering is anyone else a little curious / suspicious that the Gardaí and possibly someone higher up might be colluding with Gerry Hutch and his wider family / organisation?

It's suspected by many (but not proven, to the best of my knowledge) that his outfit is heavily involved in the distribution of drugs in parts of the north inner city, with the dealing taking place openly on the street and with very little apparent law enforcement.

At the day of the weigh-in at the Regency Hotel, law enforcement was conspicuously absent, despite widespread intelligence that major gangsters were likely to be in attendance.  There have been several rumours that there were in fact undercover Gardaí, and possibly even MI-6 agents in the room, although nothing concrete.  Why was there no visible presence, and why did no Gardaí show up until the hit team had made their getaway? 

The identities of a large number of the hit team (gunmen, drivers, planners etc.) are widely known in certain circles (again, not proven in a court), yet the only ones up on charges relating to the job are those who were photographed clearly fleeing from the scene, with the pictures being published in national media.  Why have none of the others known to be involved been charged?

Apparently Gerry Hutch himself was caught on an audio recording from a bugged van discussing the planning of the Regency job with Jonathan Dowdall (reported by several news outlets).  Why is there no European arrest warrant out for Hutch?

At least two of Gerry's very close associates are getting 24/7 protection from armed Gardaí.  Why is the state paying to have them protected, when they put themselves in harm's way in the first place?  If I pissed off Daniel Kinahan and ended up on his hit list, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't (and shouldn't) have armed Gardaí sitting on my place 24/7.

The main news outlets repeatedly spout a line about the feud starting with the murder of Gary Hutch, but emphatically fail to mention the events leading up to that.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but something really smells to me about the whole situation.  The scenarios that I have wondered about were:

a. Maybe the Hutch mob were given tacit approval from the powers that be to try to behead the Kinahan organisation.  Maybe they were seen as a lesser evil for some reason.

b. Gerry Hutch's dealings with Noel Duggan were well publicised, and Duggan's links to 'republican' smugglers was likewise well publicised.  Maybe the Hutch mob are seen as a useful source of intelligence on 'republican' activity.

c. A few Hutch associates were at one time involved with the Kinahans, so potentially useful sources of insider information on how the Kinahan mob operates.

Am I paranoid?  Am I seeing things that aren't there?  Are they really not touching any of the Hutch mob simply because they somehow can't pin enough evidence on them to get a conviction, or is there something more 'conspiratorial' at play?

Normally I'd laugh at such a conspiracy theory, but in light of things like the Mary Boyle case and the Maurice McCabe stuff, I'm not so sure anymore.

Every word in this post is factually correct and there is more truth in it than has been written in the hundreds of articles written on the subject so far. Well said and well done. There is an unwillingness to uncover the truth in Ireland and the above post shines light on some hidden truths that will inevitably come to light.

...And Justice

The Generals assassination by the provo's is a classic collusion with the state. They just stopped following him and watching him 24/7 on that day by coincidence? I think not. He was becoming a pain for the state, making a mockery of the judicial system and the Gardaí. I'd say intelligence had their sources and knew what was about to happen and dissapeared.

mikeecho

...And Justice wrote: »

The Generals assassination by the provo's is a classic collusion with the state. They just stopped following him and watching him 24/7 on that day by coincidence? I think not. He was becoming a pain for the state, making a mockery of the judicial system and the Gardaí. I'd say intelligence had their sources and knew what was about to happen and dissapeared.

Anything to back that up ?

The gardai don't have the time/money/resources to maintain 24/7 surveillance on anyone or anything.

There are so so many "targets" and limited personnel and overtime payments.

Conspiratorius Maximus

mikeecho wrote: »

...And Justice wrote: »

The Generals assassination by the provo's is a classic collusion with the state. They just stopped following him and watching him 24/7 on that day by coincidence? I think not. He was becoming a pain for the state, making a mockery of the judicial system and the Gardaí. I'd say intelligence had their sources and knew what was about to happen and dissapeared.

Anything to back that up ?

The gardai don't have the time/money/resources to maintain 24/7 surveillance on anyone or anything.

There are so so many "targets" and limited personnel and overtime payments.

Well they seem to be doing a bloody good job of babysitting Johnny & Patsy Hutch ever since the Regency incident - there are Garda cards sitting outside their houses 24/7, with frequent checkpoints too in the vicinity of their houses.
I don't understand that level of protection for lads who basically painted targets on themselves.  What makes them so valuable that they merit this level of protection from the state?
Why not leave the Hutch lads to their own devices, and either let Gerry Hutch himself put up the money to hire security for his people, or let them scarper, and free up some extra Gardaí to do real police work.

Conspiratorius Maximus

mikeecho wrote: »

...And Justice wrote: »

The Generals assassination by the provo's is a classic collusion with the state. They just stopped following him and watching him 24/7 on that day by coincidence? I think not. He was becoming a pain for the state, making a mockery of the judicial system and the Gardaí. I'd say intelligence had their sources and knew what was about to happen and dissapeared.

Anything to back that up ?

The gardai don't have the time/money/resources to maintain 24/7 surveillance on anyone or anything.

There are so so many "targets" and limited personnel and overtime payments.

Well they seem to be doing a bloody good job of babysitting Johnny & Patsy Hutch ever since the Regency incident - there are Garda cards sitting outside their houses 24/7, with frequent checkpoints too in the vicinity of their houses.
I don't understand that level of protection for lads who basically painted targets on themselves.  What makes them so valuable that they merit this level of protection from the state?
Why not leave the Hutch lads to their own devices, and either let Gerry Hutch himself put up the money to hire security for his people, or let them scarper, and free up some extra Gardaí to do real police work.

dense

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

Well they seem to be doing a bloody good job of babysitting Johnny & Patsy Hutch ever since the Regency incident - there are Garda cards sitting outside their houses 24/7, with frequent checkpoints too in the vicinity of their houses.
I don't understand that level of protection for lads who basically painted targets on themselves.  What makes them so valuable that they merit this level of protection from the state?
Why not leave the Hutch lads to their own devices, and either let Gerry Hutch himself put up the money to hire security for his people, or let them scarper, and free up some extra Gardaí to do real police work.

Good theory.

The babysitting of certain members of the community is in contrast to the random opportunistic penalisation of other law abiding members of the community. One element of the public is in fear over getting 2 penalty points, the other laughs in the face of the gaurds and are above the law. It doesn't wash.

There are private armoured cars doing the rounds.
Where is Revenue in all of this funding?

Another state arm turning a blind eye?
Social welfare for means testing? Because presumably there's no "legitimate" income?
Banks for money laundering?

Truthtopower

"c. A few Hutch associates were at one time involved with the Kinahans, so potentially useful sources of insider information on how the Kinahan mob operates.".........

Winter hill gang in Boston murdered and operated for years with the full knowledge of the FBI

It's an arrangement as old as law enforcement

Valmont

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

The main news outlets repeatedly spout a line about the feud starting with the murder of Gary Hutch, but emphatically fail to mention the events leading up to that.

What events are these?

Martin Kok, an ex-gangster from Amsterdam, was gunned down last year allegedly for all the dirt he published on his blog. It might interest you to know that he named the deceased Gareth Hutch as a police informant!

Esel

Valmont wrote: »

What events are these?

Martin Kok, an ex-gangster from Amsterdam, was gunned down last year allegedly for all the dirt he published on his blog. It might interest you to know that he named the deceased Gareth Hutch as a police informant!

Was he the guy whose posts were often linked in the K/H feud megathread?

Valmont

Esel wrote: »

Was he the guy whose posts were often linked in the K/H feud megathread?

I have no idea what that is.

meathstevie

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

Well they seem to be doing a bloody good job of babysitting Johnny & Patsy Hutch ever since the Regency incident - there are Garda cards sitting outside their houses 24/7, with frequent checkpoints too in the vicinity of their houses.
I don't understand that level of protection for lads who basically painted targets on themselves.  What makes them so valuable that they merit this level of protection from the state?
Why not leave the Hutch lads to their own devices, and either let Gerry Hutch himself put up the money to hire security for his people, or let them scarper, and free up some extra Gardaí to do real police work.

There a thing called the ECHR, Art 2 guarantees the right to life. It essentially means that once the state is aware of a realistic threat to someone's life it has to act to mitigate it.

Truthtopower

Well over 100 million spent on protecting men who were questioned over the Regency attack. Ireland is the most corrupt country among western democracies.And still no EAW for the suspect who the Gardai have audio recordings of him confessing. Collusion.

Truthtopower

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

I hope this thread doesn't contravene the rules - I did read the forum charter and I don't think I'm breaching it.  I've tried to avoid accusing anyone by name of committing a crime where that hasn't been proven in court, and tried not to name anyone in relation to rumours apart from where they were already published in national media.

I was wondering is anyone else a little curious / suspicious that the Gardaí and possibly someone higher up might be colluding with Gerry Hutch and his wider family / organisation?

It's suspected by many (but not proven, to the best of my knowledge) that his outfit is heavily involved in the distribution of drugs in parts of the north inner city, with the dealing taking place openly on the street and with very little apparent law enforcement.

At the day of the weigh-in at the Regency Hotel, law enforcement was conspicuously absent, despite widespread intelligence that major gangsters were likely to be in attendance.  There have been several rumours that there were in fact undercover Gardaí, and possibly even MI-6 agents in the room, although nothing concrete.  Why was there no visible presence, and why did no Gardaí show up until the hit team had made their getaway? 

The identities of a large number of the hit team (gunmen, drivers, planners etc.) are widely known in certain circles (again, not proven in a court), yet the only ones up on charges relating to the job are those who were photographed clearly fleeing from the scene, with the pictures being published in national media.  Why have none of the others known to be involved been charged?

Apparently Gerry Hutch himself was caught on an audio recording from a bugged van discussing the planning of the Regency job with Jonathan Dowdall (reported by several news outlets).  Why is there no European arrest warrant out for Hutch?

At least two of Gerry's very close associates are getting 24/7 protection from armed Gardaí.  Why is the state paying to have them protected, when they put themselves in harm's way in the first place?  If I pissed off Daniel Kinahan and ended up on his hit list, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't (and shouldn't) have armed Gardaí sitting on my place 24/7.

The main news outlets repeatedly spout a line about the feud starting with the murder of Gary Hutch, but emphatically fail to mention the events leading up to that.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but something really smells to me about the whole situation.  The scenarios that I have wondered about were:

a. Maybe the Hutch mob were given tacit approval from the powers that be to try to behead the Kinahan organisation.  Maybe they were seen as a lesser evil for some reason.

b. Gerry Hutch's dealings with Noel Duggan were well publicised, and Duggan's links to 'republican' smugglers was likewise well publicised.  Maybe the Hutch mob are seen as a useful source of intelligence on 'republican' activity.

c. A few Hutch associates were at one time involved with the Kinahans, so potentially useful sources of insider information on how the Kinahan mob operates.

Am I paranoid?  Am I seeing things that aren't there?  Are they really not touching any of the Hutch mob simply because they somehow can't pin enough evidence on them to get a conviction, or is there something more 'conspiratorial' at play?

Normally I'd laugh at such a conspiracy theory, but in light of things like the Mary Boyle case and the Maurice McCabe stuff, I'm not so sure anymore.


[/Apparently Gerry Hutch himself was caught on an audio recording from a bugged van discussing the planning of the Regency job with Jonathan Dowdall (reported by several news outlets). Why is there no European arrest warrant out for Hutch?

That's an easy question to answer.

Get Real

Conspiratorius Maximus wrote: »

Apparently Gerry Hutch himself was caught on an audio recording from a bugged van discussing the planning of the Regency job with Jonathan Dowdall (reported by several news outlets).  Why is there no European arrest warrant out for Hutch?.

Gerry hutch hasn't been charged with anything/is not alleged to have committed any offence (at least not enough for court purposes) there's no grounds for a European Arrest Warrant.

A European Arrest warrant can only be issued to conduct a prosecution of that person in relation to an offence that carries a sentence of over one year. It cannot be issued to arrest someone and bring them back to ask them what they knew (ie it can't be used to aid an investigation)

It can also be issued if a court has imposed a sentence in absence of the person attending court, which isn't the case here.

At least thats my understanding.