Personal insolvency - rort or not? Options.....

b4bmm

Hi guys,

I am curious if anybody has been through this in one way or another before, as creditor or debtor? 
A close relation of mine are going through this at the moment, they are a couple and the debtors.
I am a creditor along with the banks.
They have been in touch with a number of different PIP'S.
The first one or two were not very enticing to work together with. Now they have found a guy in Wicklow who they are progressing with.

There has already been two properties seized and sold by the bank at basement prices prior to engaging with a PIP. All the way through the process with the PIP he said the family home and a joint investment property (third share) would not be touched and that the banks would likely be willing to deal with an upfront payment of 20-25% to settle the rest of the debts, now as the protective certificate has been issued by the court (which means the clock is counting, I'm not sure exactly in this regard?) he is claiming the banks will likely want to take ownership of both the family home and the investment property which is owned as a third share unless a much larger amount of funds can be raised.

It seems like a total U-turn compared to his original statements. Now the PIP have recommended that a sale of the investment property is essential (which was income for retirement, both in mid 60s still working to survive) and another loan from me(anyone really but I'm likely to only viable option if I can come up with the funds) secured as a first charge on the family home to bridge the gap for the rest of the funds. So essentially from what was originally an expectation of 100-120K to settle the debts has now turned into somewhere in the region of E400K. Original 100-120k estimation + sale of third share (foreseen to be a retirement income, still mortgaged) + loan from me to secure the family home.

Surely these guys have been around the block enough now to know what certain banks are likely to do in most situations. They would be dealing with these banks and these situations for years now and it really seems they are trying to pull a fast one and not acting in the best interests of the debtors. Is this a common scenario? 
They are engaging with another PIP but are waiting for him to return from holidays (perfect timing ;( ) to figure out what he thinks a likely deal would be for the given situation. I will also get them to ring up the Step Change website that offers free help to people in this situation and I will also urge them to maybe get a third opinion from another PIP.

I just can't believe that this is happening TBH. This couple are both in retirement age, have worked all there lives, continue to do so and paid all there taxes. Now after the government bailing out the banks, essentially the taxpayers bailing out the banks they can now double dip and ask for these debts back again. 20-25% I could agree to but this is approx 75% of the debt they are looking to get returned, if not more. It boggles my mind. 

How can a PIP recommend getting a 20 year loan from a relation at 65 years of age to pay a lump sum to a bank? Is it expected they work until death? As far as I am aware a retirement income is around the same as the dole, approx 230 a month so maybe 500 between a month. They may have a pension of approx 50k, which can be taken as a lump some of which (I know) they will plan to pay to me if its a case I can find the funds to help them out. So that will leave them with 500 a month with which they need to pay for food, electricity, shelter, transport, communication, insurance/car tax/maintenance/medical bills etc and of course any repairs needed to the home house onto of 50k of a loan to pay. 

Im lost for words right now, this guy must be taking the piss?

b4bmm

Mods could you please move this to another section if there is a more appropriate one.

nuac

Mod
Moved to Accountancy which is the nearest category I could find

jcon1913

b4bmm wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am curious if anybody has been through this in one way or another before, as creditor or debtor? 
A close relation of mine are going through this at the moment, they are a couple and the debtors.
I am a creditor along with the banks.
They have been in touch with a number of different PIP'S.
The first one or two were not very enticing to work together with. Now they have found a guy in Wicklow who they are progressing with.

There has already been two properties seized and sold by the bank at basement prices prior to engaging with a PIP. All the way through the process with the PIP he said the family home and a joint investment property (third share) would not be touched and that the banks would likely be willing to deal with an upfront payment of 20-25% to settle the rest of the debts, now as the protective certificate has been issued by the court (which means the clock is counting, I'm not sure exactly in this regard?) he is claiming the banks will likely want to take ownership of both the family home and the investment property which is owned as a third share unless a much larger amount of funds can be raised.

It seems like a total U-turn compared to his original statements. Now the PIP have recommended that a sale of the investment property is essential (which was income for retirement, both in mid 60s still working to survive) and another loan from me(anyone really but I'm likely to only viable option if I can come up with the funds) secured as a first charge on the family home to bridge the gap for the rest of the funds. So essentially from what was originally an expectation of 100-120K to settle the debts has now turned into somewhere in the region of E400K. Original 100-120k estimation + sale of third share (foreseen to be a retirement income, still mortgaged) + loan from me to secure the family home.

Surely these guys have been around the block enough now to know what certain banks are likely to do in most situations. They would be dealing with these banks and these situations for years now and it really seems they are trying to pull a fast one and not acting in the best interests of the debtors. Is this a common scenario? 
They are engaging with another PIP but are waiting for him to return from holidays (perfect timing ;( ) to figure out what he thinks a likely deal would be for the given situation. I will also get them to ring up the Step Change website that offers free help to people in this situation and I will also urge them to maybe get a third opinion from another PIP.

I just can't believe that this is happening TBH. This couple are both in retirement age, have worked all there lives, continue to do so and paid all there taxes. Now after the government bailing out the banks, essentially the taxpayers bailing out the banks they can now double dip and ask for these debts back again. 20-25% I could agree to but this is approx 75% of the debt they are looking to get returned, if not more. It boggles my mind. 

How can a PIP recommend getting a 20 year loan from a relation at 65 years of age to pay a lump sum to a bank? Is it expected they work until death? As far as I am aware a retirement income is around the same as the dole, approx 230 a month so maybe 500 between a month. They may have a pension of approx 50k, which can be taken as a lump some of which (I know) they will plan to pay to me if its a case I can find the funds to help them out. So that will leave them with 500 a month with which they need to pay for food, electricity, shelter, transport, communication, insurance/car tax/maintenance/medical bills etc and of course any repairs needed to the home house onto of 50k of a loan to pay. 

Im lost for words right now, this guy must be taking the piss?

I have worked with a very good PIP who knows his stuff, PM me for contact details if you need his number. You may not get a better answer but I can tell you from experience that if you are dealing with a PIP who is doing it part-time i.e. Accountant / financial adviser / ex-banker they are not always the best.

Just my tuppence worth.