Tool required to get at bearings in a Giant PR-2 wheel freehub?

SchrodingersCat

Hi!
I made this post with the intention of offering a guide to anyone else in a similar situation, and to ask someone knowledgeable on how to progress further. I wasnt able to find information on either online.

I have a 2015 Giant Defy 0 road bike https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy-0-2015 . Recently, it has developed a grinding noise whenever the rear wheel freewheels. This doesnt appear when pedaling. As such, I suspected that a bearing may have gone in the freehub.

For the record, I have Giant PR-2 wheels and a "Giant Performance Tracker Road, Sealed Bearing" 11 speed rear hub. I set about dismantling the rear hub in the hopes of inspecting the bearings. To do this, I removed the rear wheel. From the non-drive side, I loosened and removed silver dropout nut, washer, and then the black dust cover nut. Using a nylon hammer, I hammered the axle out from the non-drive side. The drive side sealed bearing came out with it. To remove the non-drive side bearing, I replaced the axle but at a slight angle so that it hit the bearing from the inside. This allowed me to lightly hammer the bearing out using the axle and hammer.

I removed the red plastic cover from both sealed bearings, degreased and regreased them. They were no issues seen.

I moved my attention to the free hub. This had the markings "GRB-1502 O.A" and "NK 11 S". To remove this, I needed a long M13 spline bit. I checked www.wiggle.com, amazon and ebay but could not find a suitable one. M12 and M14 were comon, but no M13. The only M13 long spline bit in existance must sit in the hand of the fella in the Giant factory that puts on the freehubs. So I improvised and ground down the splines a touch on a 14mm spline bit. I was able to insert it into the hub from non-drive side. As I was driving it from the rear, I had to turn it clockwise to remove it. It took a bit of effort but eventually released.



Once I removed the freehub, I was able to remove the black rubber seal around the rear bearings on the hub. This exposed the rear set of bearing in the hub. I was also greeted with rusty coloured water, a sure sign that water had got in and corrosion was occurring. Ive no idea how the water got in, as I never used a pressure washer on the bike, nor aerosol degreasers.
Unfortunately, I could not disassemble the freehub any further to get at the bearings at the front. THey look like they are kept in place by a silver bearing cover. This has two notches on the edges (see photos). Ive tried using an old screwdriver and hammer to turn it usign the notches, to no avail. Im afraid of hammering too hard in case I damage the edges of the notches. Without getting this cover off, i cant inspect or replace any of the bearings. In the meanterm, I left the hub soak in degreaser and them lubed up what I could with chain oil. Id much rather get at the bearings to inspect and apply LM grease on them. 



As such, I was wondering if anyone knew the answers to the following:

Does the bearing cover release clockwise or counter-clockwise?
Where can I buy a tool to remove this cover that has the relevant two notches?
Is it possible to replace the whole 11 speed freehub with something more common like from Shimano? If so, what one could I buy?


Thanks!

magicbastarder

do you not need a bearing puller for them? if they're sealed cartridges?

lescol

There's a youtube video on how to make a tool for the removal of that cover (it's for a Shimano freehub but appears the same)

Macy0161

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Hi!
I made this post with the intention of offering a guide to anyone else in a similar situation, and to ask someone knowledgeable on how to progress further. I wasnt able to find information on either online.

Well following the thread for future reference, as I've had two PR2's replaced under warranty (well the second just out, but LBS/ Giant did sort me) on my Giant Defy 0 due to the freehub.

First time I don't think I was particularly over eager with my cleaning. After the first replacement I definitely wasn't!

SchrodingersCat

magicbastarder: do you not need a bearing puller for them? if they're sealed cartridges?

There are two sealed bearings used on the rear axel, not on the freehub. If these had to be replaced you could use a bearing puller, bit its probably easier just to replace the whole cartridge. I beleive that the bearings in the freehub should be replacable without a bearing puller. 

lescol: There's a youtube video on how to make a tool for the removal of that cover (it's for a Shimano freehub but appears the same)

Thanks for this. I will have to see if I can get an old socket that will fit this (I would hate to ruin one in my set). I will still need to find out if it turns closkwise or counter closkwise though.

Macy0161: Well following the thread for future reference, as I've had two PR2's replaced under warranty (well the second just out, but LBS/ Giant did sort me) on my Giant Defy 0 due to the freehub.
First time I don't think I was particularly over eager with my cleaning. After the first replacement I definitely wasn't!

Now thats interesting. I wonder is it a known issue to Giant. I didnt buy the bike direct from them, but it could be worth seeing if im still covered by warranty. 

How long did your warranty last for?

Macy0161

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

How long did your warranty last for?

Think it's a year, second time was under a year from replacement. tbh LBS looked after me, so not sure whether they had pull or not as I assume it's one that Giant could claim wear and tear/ mistakes cleaning. They did say I should consider a wheel upgrade, as I doubt I'll get a third one.

Incidentally, when I asked about it on here at the time, several posters put it down to me pressure washing, wd40 etc., which I hadn't done! So at least this thread is more support for the hubs just being a bit rubbish.

SchrodingersCat

Unfortunately I would have had the bike for two years at this stage. Its strange that they replaced the whole wheel rather than the faulty freehub. It could be just their policy to reduce labor.  

Yes, I agree, it is an issue not necessarily caused by the way the bike is washed. I dont even have a pressure washer, for example. I was also careful of not letting cleaning liquids and degreasers get anywhere near bearings. I use the Defy as my commuter bike all year long, so it has seen some pretty bad cycling conditons. My guess is the same as yours, that its just a bit of a rubbish hub that let a bit too much of mother-nature get into it.

Ive ordered the following tool from the good folks of China: 

However, as it will take two generations to get delivered here, I will attempt to get it off by fashioning a tool in the mean-term. Il keep ye update

NeedMoreGears

I've had two similar freehub failures - one on a 2011 giant PR2 and the other on a Shimano 500 wheel. My failed hubs looked identical to yours. I've never used pressure washing or similar. The hubs seem good for around 15,000km of commuting in my experience.
If you make the tool as described in the video, please let us know how you get along. Both my efforts were abject failures and I ended up replacing the freehub.

SchrodingersCat

I emailled the guys at Giant in Dublin on the weekend and got a very informative response. The told me the following:

1, Cartridge bearings generally need replacing if they need re-lubing.

2, We use a 13mm Allen key from Park tool, to undo the freehub body, from the non-drive side.

3, The freehub body on this hub is a sealed unit, so like the bearings if it is worn you will need a new one.

4, A freehub for this wheel costs c.€25.


Im suprised that you they use a 13mm allen key when it appears to look like a spline, but if it works for them guys, it will work for me. Although I was able to clean out the hub and re-lube it without openeing it, it still grinds when turning. It appears that it requires replacing.
25e isnt expensive, I will call into them when I am free and purchase one.

Thanks for all the help!

Gerry

This is a known issue. Same bike ( 2015 defy 0) Mine has gotten noisy I really need to drop it in to the Lbs who had promised a free replacement. Hppefuly that offer hasn't expired. I think they are not great quality hubs and if it's my money it will go towards new wheels. In fairness the rest of the bike has been very reliable, 6000k, great value. And I look forward to keeping it for many years.

Macy0161

Yeah, pretty much my LBS reckoned that Giant generally give good bang for your buck components wise, but that their wheels is somewhere they aren't so great, so ultimately they reckoned new wheels was the solution. I'm currently looking at new bikes*!

*well the disc brake giant will become my winter bike.

SchrodingersCat

I called into the nice folks at Giant on the weekend but unfortunately they didnt have the hub needed for the Giant Defy 0 2015 PR-2 wheels. 
They said that the freehubs are pretty specilised to the type of wheels: he tried four different frehubs on my wheels but none of them fitted. The part number for the freehub that I need is 125B-FH06KA-401. They said that Giant dont really sell the parts anywhere online, but that they could order one in for me. It will take 2-3 weeks and cost 30 yo-yos. 

@Gerry & Macy, 
I think you guys are correct. When the freehub starts to grumble in another two years, I reckon I will look to replace the whole wheels with something a bit better.

SchrodingersCat

Hi folks,
Just to give a last update on this and close out on it, I called into Giant and they didnt have the hub in stock. They ordered it in, but unfortunately after I collected it, it was a 10speed rather than the 11speed that I wanted. They ordered in the 11speed and it worked fine after I got it from them.

I forgot to collect the old hub back off them, which was a pity, as I wanted to see if I could replace the bearings in it.

Anyway, the bike goes like a rocket now again. Thanks folks!

josh.davidr

Macy0161 wrote: »

Well following the thread for future reference, as I've had two PR2's replaced under warranty (well the second just out, but LBS/ Giant did sort me) on my Giant Defy 0 due to the freehub.

First time I don't think I was particularly over eager with my cleaning. After the first replacement I definitely wasn't!

Did they replace it with an identical wheel?

I have had my freehub replaced once now, and already after only a couple of months it's playing up again. Grinding & rough noise to be precise.

I've also found the spokes on this wheelset to produce a lot of clicking noises when going up hills, or pedalling out of the saddle. Tried lubing the nipples and spoke crossings, but to no avail. Anyone else had this?

Takca

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

I made this post with the intention of offering a guide to anyone else in a similar situation, and to ask someone knowledgeable on how to progress further. I wasnt able to find information on either online.

thanks for this it was a great help

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

I have a 2015 Giant Defy 0 road bike https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy-0-2015 . Recently, it has developed a grinding noise whenever the rear wheel freewheels. This doesnt appear when pedaling. As such, I suspected that a bearing may have gone in the freehub.

I had a similar problem, Giant Defy 1 2016. Over the last few months the freehub has been getting progressively less free. In some cases while freewheeling it was pulling on the chain causing a bit of slack chain between the cassette and the top of the chain ring. It was only going to be a matter if time before it would cause a problem (more then an annoyance).

It had only 4,200km on it so I'm a bit disappointed that it didn't last longer.

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

I called into the nice folks at Giant on the weekend but unfortunately they didnt have the hub needed for the Giant Defy 0 2015 PR-2 wheels. 
They said that the freehubs are pretty specilised to the type of wheels: he tried four different frehubs on my wheels but none of them fitted. The part number for the freehub that I need is 125B-FH06KA-401. They said that Giant dont really sell the parts anywhere online, but that they could order one in for me. It will take 2-3 weeks and cost 30 yo-yos. 

After finding the part number on this thread (thanks), I ordered it from http://www.giantbikespares.com/[1] last Monday, it arrived yesterday. So £19.99 taking a week from ordering to delivery. Also it came with a 11mm bit to remove the old freehub and install the new.

Anyways I put it on the wheel last, all went well, based on 30seconds cycling outside the house my problem is solved, for now at least.

1 - http://www.giantbikespares.com/Giant-11-Speed-Sealed-Bearing-Freehub-Body--FH06KA-401/product_detail/3-41326

byrnem31

I was looking for similar issues to my defy and found this thread.

Basically, I have a defy advanced 2 2020. The rear hub is noisy at times. Like a faint crunching sound. The worst part is, when coasting and you begin to cycle again after a few seconds, there is a sharp metal once of bang coming from the middle of the bike.

It only happens every so often. One time it was fine Mon to Thursday and then Friday there was a bang out of it. Of course, when I brought it to the shop, it didn't happen.

They say it's the rear hub and allege they have ordered the part but this has been going on since July. Do parts take that long to order and does it sound like a hub issue please ?

cletus

byrnem31 wrote: »

I was looking for similar issues to my defy and found this thread.

Basically, I have a defy advanced 2 2020. The rear hub is noisy at times. Like a faint crunching sound. The worst part is, when coasting and you begin to cycle again after a few seconds, there is a sharp metal once of bang coming from the middle of the bike.

It only happens every so often. One time it was fine Mon to Thursday and then Friday there was a bang out of it. Of course, when I brought it to the shop, it didn't happen.

They say it's the rear hub and allege they have ordered the part but this has been going on since July. Do parts take that long to order and does it sound like a hub issue please ?

I know this is a zombie thread, but yes it does sound like a freehub issue. Regarding order times, many manufacturing processes have been affected by the covid out real, and subsequent lockdowns

SchrodingersCat

Yea, I agree, it sounds like a freehub issue.
Ive had to replace the freehub twice on my PR2 wheels now. The second time, Giant told me that they don't stock the part anymore and were recommending customers to just upgrade their whole wheels.
I couldn't find the exact model online but found a similar looking one. After screwing it in, I found that it wouldn't rotate freely as it was too tight. I had to remove it, drop a spacing washer into the wheel, and screw it back on. It worked great after that.

Eventually the rim gave out on the wheel so I replaced them with a whole set of Fulcrum wheels.
Ive bought a replacement rim so that I can keep the old wheels as spares. At this stage only the spokes are original ��

Eamonnator

How is Trigger, by the way?

byrnem31

Ok thanks.

byrnem31

I ordered a new wheel with hub for €160 from the giant store at ep Mooney. 4 weeks wait for a new wheel and hub. I marked the wheel also changing the tyres so want a new one. Sound lads to deal with.

It's partly my fault I reckon as I was washing the bike with fairy liquid every week when I bought it which broke down all the parts of it that were greased on it.

You live and learn.

SchrodingersCat

I wouldn't blame yourself for washing the bike with fairy liquid by hand. This is a pretty standard method of washing a bike. The PR 2 hub bearings are pretty badly designed IMHO. The bearings are not sealed like on other wheels. Neither are they part of a standard sized bearing race, so you can't easily pick up a replacement bearing race from a hardware store. Instead you have to source a specific part from Giant, and hope that they still stock it, which the often seem not too.

In general, the bike is great, but the PR2 wheels are a bit pants because of this.

Tim76

Is there any way of determining that it actually is the freehub making the noise?

I have the exact same bike and lately have noticed a clicking sound when freewheeling at a high speed.

Oddly enough when I went for a spin yesterday the clicking sound only appeared with each turn of the pedals. It disappeared when freewheeling but towards the end of the ride it was back again when I freewheeled.

I fully cleaned down the drivetrain recently so I'm guessing that's not it - although the chain will need replacing soon.

I've had issues before with water getting into into the seat tube and causing a creaking sound but the bike hasn't been out in the rain in months so i'm ruling that out.

Really don't want to go messing with the bearings unless I'm sure that's the issue...

SchrodingersCat

It could be the bottom bracket too. Does it change when you move position on the saddle, for example, cycling out of the saddle?

byrnem31

Tim76 wrote: »

Is there any way of determining that it actually is the freehub making the noise?

I have the exact same bike and lately have noticed a clicking sound when freewheeling at a high speed.

Oddly enough when I went for a spin yesterday the clicking sound only appeared with each turn of the pedals. It disappeared when freewheeling but towards the end of the ride it was back again when I freewheeled.

I fully cleaned down the drivetrain recently so I'm guessing that's not it - although the chain will need replacing soon.

I've had issues before with water getting into into the seat tube and causing a creaking sound but the bike hasn't been out in the rain in months so i'm ruling that out.

Really don't want to go messing with the bearings unless I'm sure that's the issue...

The shop I bought it off basically took the bike apart, bottom bracket and all and greased it all up. They couldn't find anything wrong with the BB. They did mention the crank arm was slightly loose.

They did see that the rear hub was noisy and I have noticed this myself at times, it makes s crunching noise intermittently and then goes away after cycling it. I have read of a few complaints of pr2 rear hubs being complete crap. I'll get that fixed first and see how it goes.

On Sunday, I put grease all into the tru Axel's, into the casette, chain and other general parts. The bike ran as smooth as butter and did not make any noise. But it has been fine for a few days before only for it to happen again. I'll be back on it tomorrow for another test.

It's frustrating as there are no other bikes like it as comfortable with the d fuse seat post and stem. It fly's along the road in comfort. It's only something small though and when sorted the bike will be perfect.

Tim76

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

It could be the bottom bracket too. Does it change when you move position on the saddle, for example, cycling out of the saddle?

Following yesterdays spin I noticed the following:

When the clicking noise is present during pedalling only, then it is also present when out of the saddle and pedalling. There seems to be one click per revolution of the crank.

When the clicking noise is present when freewheeling, then it seems to disappear when out of the saddle. The frequency seems to be dependent on speed.

There is no clicking noise when on the bike stand, pedalling or freewheeling.

Lubed the nipples (sounds wrong) and spoke crossings just there with Muc-Off wet lube and the chain links with the dry version. Will leave that settle in and go for a test run. Hoping it’s not the BB or the freehub that’s the issue as it looks like a ball ache to sort.

Incidentally, Giant replaced the frame & fork this year under warranty as cracks started to appear in the seat tube/top tube junction of the old frame. So technically the bike is now a Giant Contend SL with an Ultegra groupset as opposed to a 2015 Giant Defy 0