Lifestyle of a doctor (GP) versus lifestyle of a psychologist

How does the lifestyle of a GP compare to the lifestyle of a psychologist? Time, money, stress, career progression, etc? Any input from people in these careers or from people whose friends/family are in these careers would be great. Thanks.

Ken.

Mod-Moved to the Work & Jobs forum. Please read the local charter before posting.

GalwayGrrrrrl

I was talking to a few HSE psychologists who work on mental health teams this week - they were saying there were still nowhere near enough posts available. It takes about 8 years to be qualified, including unpaid assistant work- didn't sound very attractive tbh! It could be a different story if you do private work.
On the positive side HSE psychologists don't seem to do any evenings or weekends on call but this could change in the future (for all professionals in mental health) as the HSE moves slowly towards a 7 day service instead of current 5 day.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Have you considered training to be a psychiatrist? Medical school then paid training scheme. Seems to be plenty of posts available, well established training rotations. Consultant psychiatrist would be on very good salary and it's a "clean" job (unlike surgical).

Psychologeeee

Just to add to the above, while it does take quite a while to qualify, a proportion of the time taken to qualify in clinical psychology is salaried.

I can only speak for the psychology bit, but as with most jobs, the work life balance is less to do with the volume/quality of work, and more to do with what you decide to prioritise. If you want to work late evenings and weekends in psychology, you can fill up your time with private work etc! If you don't want to do that, then keep your work 9-5.

xfactorfan23

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

I was talking to a few HSE psychologists who work on mental health teams this week - they were saying there were still nowhere near enough posts available. It takes about 8 years to be qualified, including unpaid assistant work- didn't sound very attractive tbh! It could be a different story if you do private work.
On the positive side HSE psychologists don't seem to do any evenings or weekends on call but this could change in the future (for all professionals in mental health) as the HSE moves slowly towards a 7 day service instead of current 5 day.

Thanks for the advice. Do you know if they enjoy their jobs? Sounds so basic but that's my main concern and also income. I wonder if it will move to 7 days in our lifetime? If it goes to 7 days medicine would be more attractive as it is more 5 days a week with occasional weekend shifts in GP. Income wise would there be much difference? It would take 4 years and a big loan to do GEM then four years training whereas clinical psychology is a paid training programme so currently I'm thinking psychology would make more sense? Still very unsure though.

xfactorfan23

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

Have you considered training to be a psychiatrist? Medical school then paid training scheme. Seems to be plenty of posts available, well established training rotations. Consultant psychiatrist would be on very good salary and it's a "clean" job (unlike surgical).

I would be but say that would be the same route of GEM and expensive loan versus paid training. I can't decide between the two paths of either medicine or psychology. Have been to career guidance but I cannot decide and am terrified I will make a mistake or be unhappy or waste money. I want a career I love and enjoy and am trying to find any information that will tilt my decision.

Psychologeeee

Psychologeeee wrote: »

Just to add to the above, while it does take quite a while to qualify, a proportion of the time taken to qualify in clinical psychology is salaried.

I can only speak for the psychology bit, but as with most jobs, the work life balance is less to do with the volume/quality of work, and more to do with what you decide to prioritise. If you want to work late evenings and weekends in psychology, you can fill up your time with private work etc! If you don't want to do that, then keep your work 9-5.

Thank you for your reply. How do psychologists generally feel about their career is it enjoyable and rewarding? Is it financially rewarding? I would be willing to wait and keep applying for clinical while I work the day job if ultimately I enjoy my work.

GalwayGrrrrrl

I'm sure a local psychologist and GP would be happy to chat with you. I work in a psych unit and have seen lots of young people come in to meet various disciplines to find out the facts before uni. If by chance you are in Galway area PM me and I can give you some contacts.

Psychologeeee

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. How do psychologists generally feel about their career is it enjoyable and rewarding? Is it financially rewarding? I would be willing to wait and keep applying for clinical while I work the day job if ultimately I enjoy my work.

Hi julie101

I'm in training as a clinical psychologist at the moment. It took 6 years (from start of undergrad/masters/assistant work) to gain entry to the clinical doctorate (9 years total).

I have found it very rewarding and I have definitely been able to grow as a professional & a person throughout training.

There are many types of psychology work (research/assessment/intervention) etc so you are bound to find an aspect you enjoy.

The payscales for HSE psychologists are online. I don't know them off the top of my head (trainee 33-40k; staff grade 49-79K; senior 76-88k+, principal 88-101k+). You can live comfortably depending on the lifestyle you want and you could supplement with private work if needs be.

Some areas of psychology have more posts than others (disability etc as opposed to adult mental health).

You have an opportunity to train other psychologists once you reach senior level.

It's not as costly as medicine to keep up your professional development. Personal indemnity insurance is much less for psychologists considering we aren't carrying out any invasive medical procedures etc.

There are of course, psychologists employed by many private organisations.

xfactorfan23

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

I'm sure a local psychologist and GP would be happy to chat with you. I work in a psych unit and have seen lots of young people come in to meet various disciplines to find out the facts before uni. If by chance you are in Galway area PM me and I can give you some contacts.

I have talked to local GPs and psychologists but I really can't see any pros or cons to help me decide. I think finding a job as GP would be easier. Psychology is lovely hours and slightly better work life balance. GP is slightly better pay (I think unless you are senior Psychologist?). It's like one pro versus one con! Both are helping people and interesting and intellectually challenging and good pay which are main things I want. Just am trying to find one way to swing it either way! GEM will put me in debt but due to pay being greater that will pay it off so at the min that is only thing making it less attractive than psychology. I'm not sure how hands on a person I am so in that sense if I do medicine perhaps (as a poster said here) psychiatry would be better suited to me as a less hands on role. It may sound like a silly question but would psychiatry be more dangerous than psychology (e.g. Likehood of injury higher due to more severe difficulties with patients?). I would not like a job I would be afraid of getting hurt in realistically.

GalwayGrrrrrl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have talked to local GPs and psychologists but I really can't see any pros or cons to help me decide. I think finding a job as GP would be easier. Psychology is lovely hours and slightly better work life balance. GP is slightly better pay (I think unless you are senior Psychologist?). It's like one pro versus one con! Both are helping people and interesting and intellectually challenging and good pay which are main things I want. Just am trying to find one way to swing it either way! GEM will put me in debt but due to pay being greater that will pay it off so at the min that is only thing making it less attractive than psychology. I'm not sure how hands on a person I am so in that sense if I do medicine perhaps (as a poster said here) psychiatry would be better suited to me as a less hands on role. It may sound like a silly question but would psychiatry be more dangerous than psychology (e.g. Likehood of injury higher due to more severe difficulties with patients?). I would not like a job I would be afraid of getting hurt in realistically.

The only staff I've seen getting injured on psychiatric ward are nurses. They are the ones who have the difficult task of administering meds to very unwell patients. I've worked on an adult acute ward for 12 years and never been touched. A and E would be more risky for violence as you don't know the patients coming in and more patients on drugs/alcohol.
Consultant psychiatrist would be on over 200k salary (without private work). Lots are based in community settings now, with the psychologists/social workers etc.

Psychologeeee

Psychologeeee wrote: »

Hi julie101

I'm in training as a clinical psychologist at the moment. It took 6 years (from start of undergrad/masters/assistant work) to gain entry to the clinical doctorate (9 years total).

I have found it very rewarding and I have definitely been able to grow as a professional & a person throughout training.

There are many types of psychology work (research/assessment/intervention) etc so you are bound to find an aspect you enjoy.

The payscales for HSE psychologists are online. I don't know them off the top of my head (trainee 33-40k; staff grade 49-79K; senior 76-88k+, principal 88-101k+). You can live comfortably depending on the lifestyle you want and you could supplement with private work if needs be.

Some areas of psychology have more posts than others (disability etc as opposed to adult mental health).

You have an opportunity to train other psychologists once you reach senior level.

It's not as costly as medicine to keep up your professional development. Personal indemnity insurance is much less for psychologists considering we aren't carrying out any invasive medical procedures etc.

There are of course, psychologists employed by many private organisations.

Thanks so much I hadn't thought of personal identity insurance or cost of professional development. That is brilliant extra information. How realistic is getting to senior or principal psychologist? Would many ever reach that level or are only very few needed? I don't know anyone at that level so not sure how that works?

Psychologeeee

It's realistic to reach senior level! Principal is less likely as a service/hse area will only have one/two of these.

xfactorfan23

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

The only staff I've seen getting injured on psychiatric ward are nurses. They are the ones who have the difficult task of administering meds to very unwell patients. I've worked on an adult acute ward for 12 years and never been touched. A and E would be more risky for violence as you don't know the patients coming in and more patients on drugs/alcohol.
Consultant psychiatrist would be on over 200k salary (without private work). Lots are based in community settings now, with the psychologists/social workers etc.

That is really good to know thank you. On HSE psychiatrists salaries online it says 48-56k? That is if you are a qualified psychiatrist is it? How much more study is needed for consultant psychiatry?

notsoyoungwan

Consultant psychiatrists are not on over 200k!

Psychiatry training post-grad involves the intern year followed by a 4 year BST scheme followed by a 3 or 4 year (depending on area of sub-specialty) HST scheme.

GalwayGrrrrrl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That is really good to know thank you. On HSE psychiatrists salaries online it says 48-56k? That is if you are a qualified psychiatrist is it? How much more study is needed for consultant psychiatry?

You'd normally reach consultant level at around age 40-45 if you complete the psychiatry training process of sho, reg, senior reg, etc. You'd move jobs to get experience in different areas of psychiatry before applying for consultant post in your chosen field.

GalwayGrrrrrl

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Consultant psychiatrists are not on over 200k!

Psychiatry training post-grad involves the intern year followed by a 4 year BST scheme followed by a 3 or 4 year (depending on area of sub-specialty) HST scheme.

In the area I work a pay agreement was reached a few years ago on the understanding they did not take any private work.
However, I see a job advertised here with salary up to 157k for consultant psychiatrist. http://www.healthcarejobs.ie/jobs/health/584165/consultant-psychiatry-opportunity-in-galway-in-galway-galway-head-hunt-international/?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Healthcare

notsoyoungwan

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

In the area I work a pay agreement was reached a few years ago on the understanding they did not take any private work.
However, I see a job advertised here with salary up to 157k for consultant psychiatrist. http://www.healthcarejobs.ie/jobs/health/584165/consultant-psychiatry-opportunity-in-galway-in-galway-galway-head-hunt-international/?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Healthcare

Yes, that was the new consultants contract negotiated with then minister for health Mary Harney, for all specialties. However the HSE then reneged on it and breached contracts by not paying the agreed salaries. There are breach of contract cases going on in the courts at the moment about it. Furthermore, there have been the cut to all public sector salaries plus the further cut to hospital consultants specifically meaning that the public-only salaries are very definitely not over 200k.

GalwayGrrrrrl

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Yes, that was the new consultants contract negotiated with then minister for health Mary Harney, for all specialties. However the HSE then reneged on it and breached contracts by not paying the agreed salaries. There are breach of contract cases going on in the courts at the moment about it. Furthermore, there have been the cut to all public sector salaries plus the further cut to hospital consultants specifically meaning that the public-only salaries are very definitely not over 200k.

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for any confusion OP.

That's perfect guys thanks for all the information it really helps.

I still haven’t made a move either way. Any new input from anyone would be very much appreciated. I have veered both directions at different times over the last year and gone to further career coaching. If any psychologists/GPs/psychiatrists can outline pros and cons of their careers I would appreciate it very much.

OMM 0000

Serious:

As a GP you're going to have to look at people's dirty assholes every day.

It's not a glamorous job.

How does that make you feel?

Looking at the pay scales online it says the starting salary of a psychiatrist is €47,000. This seems very low is that correct or am I missing something?

davo10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking at the pay scales online it says the starting salary of a psychiatrist is €47,000. This seems very low is that correct or am I missing something?

Julie, if the deciding factors for you are lifestyle and starting salary, medicine is not for you, because put simply, both are awful. It will take years for you to reach a point where you have set hours and a good income, but the potential for private income later on will be there. For the first couple of years, you will be paid far BELOW minimum wage as a result of the numbers of hours you will have to work in the hospitals. You will have no social life and you will have to change Hospitals, cities and possibly even countries before you finish, which will be 10years+ after you enter University, so, maybe you should be looking elsewhere.

davo10

davo10 wrote: »

Julie, if the deciding factors for you are lifestyle and starting salary, medicine is not for you, because put simply, both are awful. It will take years for you to reach a point where you have set hours and a good income, but the potential for private income later on will be there. For the first couple of years, you will be paid far BELOW minimum wage as a result of the numbers of hours you will have to work in the hospitals. You will have no social life and you will have to change Hospitals, cities and possibly even countries before you finish, which will be 10years+ after you enter University, so, maybe you should be looking elsewhere.

Thanks so much for your reply. Lifestyle is important as in I wouldn’t mind the 4 years training after university being long hours but I would like a Monday- Friday (with occasional weekend work) after that. I have a friend a GP and this seems to be realistic from what she says. I would prefer to go on to psychiatry myself though as it’s more around my interests but I’m unsure of hours/ money for that other than what I read online. As I will be having to take loans to do GEM money is important in that I do not want to be saddled with debt until my 40s or later. I am not sure what GPs earn but that work-life balance would be what I am aiming for. I have also seriously considered psychology but again there is a huge outlay to take three years out to study a doctorate. I suppose the salary I would be entering psychology at versus medicine (4 years training then either GP/psychiatry) is important then as it will ensure my loans are paid and financial pressures are not ongoing for years after. From what I see GPs and psychiatrists would be on approx €50k initially - would this rise steeply? Psychologists would be on the same without needing to wait the 4 years in hospitals training so financially that would seem a better option?