To charge or not to charge?

mel.b

After a busy week or so, I'm falling into a more normal pattern now and I'm wondering about charging and when/how often to charge (30kwh leaf). For example, today I have used only 25% of the battery and looking at my diary, tomorrow will be the same, and most likely Thurs as well. I have read that it's not good for the battery to be held at high charge for long periods of time. Am i therefore better to run it down more and maybe wait until Thurs night to charge, instead of charging it up the 25% tonight?

goz83

One of mine is at 90%, so I am not charging it tonight. The other is at about 50%....but I am not charging it either. If it was my only car and I knew I was doing small miles, I would not charge it. Under 40% for me is generally when I will plug in.....even if no driving is planned for the next day.

It's ok to charge once below 80%, but if you know you won't need the charge, then there is no need to plug in....especially as you have loads of power in it anyway. Worst case scenario is you visit an FCP if some serious unexpected miles are needed.

oinkely

During the week i tend to charge both to 100% every day as the daily running will knock the gen 1 down to about 40% and the gen 1.5 down to about 55%. It's nice to start the day with a full battery,even if you are not going to need it! At the weekends i will often d the same, but occasionally leave one of them off charge if I know it will definitely not be used much. That said, i would rather leave it charged just in case than end up having to take the diesel in a pinch.

I'm not too worried as i don't think fully charged and unused for a day or two will do too much damage.

k123456

does is harm the battery if one charges from a high percentage 80% for example

ELM327

k123456 wrote: »

does is harm the battery if one charges from a high percentage 80% for example

It's said by Nissan that you should not start a charge if the battery is above 80%

I see no explanation or reasoning however, and I have topped up at an SCP after using an FCP to get to 80% before, without issue.
Leafspy still states the same SOH as before.

goz83

k123456 wrote: »

does is harm the battery if one charges from a high percentage 80% for example

I would say if you plan on driving straight away, there will be no problem. But if charging from 80%+ to 100% and leaving it, it's not best practice. Sure, it might be ok doing that from time to time, but the more often the battery is bursting with full power and not used, it's going to have some effect. That's just my experience derived from years of using mobile phones. I find they last longer when you keep the charge between 20 and 80

reboot

Quite a complicated subject lithium charging, and I see one of my chargers even has a storage charge, slightly lower voltage than when in use.
Another factor up here is being seen to charge. Some of our politicians have gone to press arguing for the CPs to be removed, as no one is using them. This is often due to the abysmal service record, with many being out of use for months, but mainly because of zero signage and lack of infrastructure , no fines, DRD buck passing to councils, who won't agree till all eleven agree.
Ecar N.I seem to be coming dangerously close to being more visible than the Marie Celeste.

Calahonda52

reboot wrote: »

Quite a complicated subject lithium charging, and I see one of my chargers even has a storage charge, slightly lower voltage than when in use.
Another factor up here is being seen to charge. Some of our politicians have gone to press arguing for the CPs to be removed, as no one is using them. This is often due to the abysmal service record, with many being out of use for months, but mainly because of zero signage and lack of infrastructure , no fines, DRD buck passing to councils, who won't agree till all eleven agree.
Ecar N.I seem to be coming dangerously close to being more visible than the Marie Celeste.

Yep the NI network is pretty savage alright, vandalism of all type of transport infrastructure is a big issue, just look at the way the bike sharing is being vandalised.
I have two trips to Belfast coming up and I will ICE both

k123456

k123456 wrote: »

does is harm the battery if one charges from a high percentage 80% for example

It's advised to charge when the charge is below 80% as stated in the manual along with not leaving it at 100% for 2 weeks or more or at very low charge which can make any future potential warranty claim difficult. The car's computer records all charging habits.

If you need the range then charge it but it should be a frequent practice.

Long term at high or low charge % puts more stresses on the battery.

In the end no matter what you do the battery will suffer reduced range due to calendar life however, all factors as stated above and that such as charging and discharging and hard acceleration etc will also have an impact and everything together makes it suffer more range loss.

When battery capacity is large enough then even a 20% range loss won't be a big deal so you won't really need to worry about it.

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

It's said by Nissan that you should not start a charge if the battery is above 80%

I see no explanation or reasoning however, and I have topped up at an SCP after using an FCP to get to 80% before, without issue.
Leafspy still states the same SOH as before.

not correct , I think the warranty value is 95%

the 80% number is a holdover from early Leafs , 80% as a limit for anything is completely gone from the 30 kWh leaf for example

BoatMad

goz83 wrote: »

I would say if you plan on driving straight away, there will be no problem. But if charging from 80%+ to 100% and leaving it, it's not best practice. Sure, it might be ok doing that from time to time, but the more often the battery is bursting with full power and not used, it's going to have some effect. That's just my experience derived from years of using mobile phones. I find they last longer when you keep the charge between 20 and 80

Lithium Ion batteries degrade primary because of parasitic actions that continue even when no current is being drawn from the battery. This is in contrast with other battery chemistries where most degradation occurs on charge and especially discharge cycles , This is why calendar life is the greatest factor in lithium lifecycles

parasitic action is greatest at higher levels of charge and this is the reason that the storage of LI batteries is typically specified at 40-60% of full capacity
( there are issues with leaving lithiums run flat )

however this effect is really measured in weeks not a day or two etc. Hence charging to 100% and leaving the car like that for 24 hours etc will have little effect on degradation ( i.e. other effects will outweigh that particular form of degradation)

where I expect to leave the car for more then a few days , I typically leave it at 60%. where I need the car I will often charge from 80% to 100% as needed

there are far too many " comments " about Lithium charging and usage that are based on poor data, non expert anecdotes and simply rumour and falsehoods.

reboot

BoatMad wrote: »

goz83 wrote: »

I would say if you plan on driving straight away, there will be no problem. But if charging from 80%+ to 100% and leaving it, it's not best practice. Sure, it might be ok doing that from time to time, but the more often the battery is bursting with full power and not used, it's going to have some effect. That's just my experience derived from years of using mobile phones. I find they last longer when you keep the charge between 20 and 80

Lithium Ion batteries degrade primary because of parasitic actions that continue even when no current is being drawn from the battery. This is in contrast with other battery chemistries where most degradation occurs on charge and especially discharge cycles , This is why calendar life is the greatest factor in lithium lifecycles

parasitic action is greatest at higher levels of charge and this is the reason that the storage of LI batteries is typically specified at 40-60% of full capacity
( there are issues with leaving lithiums run flat )

however this effect is really measured in weeks not a day or two etc. Hence charging to 100% and leaving the car like that for 24 hours etc will have little effect on degradation ( i.e. other effects will outweigh that particular form of degradation)

where I expect to leave the car for more then a few days , I typically leave it at 60%. where I need the car I will often charge from 80% to 100% as needed

there are far too many " comments " about Lithium charging and usage that are based on poor data, non expert anecdotes and simply rumour and falsehoods.

Agreed.

grogi

mel.b wrote: »

After a busy week or so, I'm falling into a more normal pattern now and I'm wondering about charging and when/how often to charge (30kwh leaf). For example, today I have used only 25% of the battery and looking at my diary, tomorrow will be the same, and most likely Thurs as well. I have read that it's not good for the battery to be held at high charge for long periods of time. Am i therefore better to run it down more and maybe wait until Thurs night to charge, instead of charging it up the 25% tonight?

Don't overthink it. Just charge when convenient.

reboot

I don't trust the battery gauge on the Zoe, it can be out by over 20%, compared with going by the miles/ kwhr calculation. On a slow journey I average 5 mile/ kwhr. The battery is 22kwhr multply 22× 5 equals 110 miles to completely flatten the battery, (won't happen), Even allowing for a reserve in the tank, the normal fuel gauge may tell me there is only 70 miles left.
I do think we may be showing too much range anxiety, as mentioned above.