Timing chain snapped on recently purchased car

willdill

As the topic says guys i bought a car 4 months ago with a 3 month warranty on the gearbox and engine.A week in to it there was a kind of shutter coming from the car when stopped at lights so i brought it back and dealer said it was nothing to worry about.A week later a friends suggest ringing them to check when the timing belt should be changed.i rang and the dealer says its a timing chain not a belt and doesnt need to be changed ever once its serviced properly eveery year which was done right before i bought the car supposedly.Question is do i have a come back on this seems i repored the shutter plus was advised about the chain.Mechanic say engined is no good no and needs to be ttaly replaced but i would just rather my money back.Should i go legal about it.Cheers guys

Isambard

Maybe he will do something for you for goodwill, otherwise it's just one of the joys of buying a used car

Toyotafanboi

Honestly, I'd say they knew it was the chain from the get go and just wanted to put you off until the warranty period is up. I'd say you stand a slim chance of getting the dealer to sort this and SFA chance of a refund.

What car is it? How much was it? What kind of dealer did you buy from?

In before "small claims court".

_Brian

Did the shutter noise you describe stay all the time or go away again ??

If there was a noise you weren't happy with you should have pushed for resolution within the warranty period.

Good will is what your after at this stage I'd imagine.

willdill

2008 golf 5500 euros.Its not from a main dealer

willdill

_Brian wrote: »

Did the shutter noise you describe stay all the time or go away again ??

If there was a noise you weren't happy with you should have pushed for resolution within the warranty period.

Good will is what your after at this stage I'd imagine.

Yes was always there but he said it was nothing to worry about maybe just the turbo cooling down.Surly this and the advise about the chain would stand in a small claims court would it not

Toyotafanboi

Jaysus, that's expensive enough. They would be partial to a timing chain alright.

Has your mechanic confirmed that the chain has actually broken if it's just badly stretched the engine is most likely recoverable? They usually give an awful lot of forewarning before they break in terms of noise/ cutting out/ failing to start/ check engine light etc.

bucketybuck

Can you prove that the engine stutter you reported and the timing chain breaking were related faults?

If the dealer says it was just coincidence what will your response be?

RustyNut

I'd say that your covered by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980. It would be reasonable to expect a 5 grand car to last more than a 4 months. Enforcing your rights under it might not be too easy tho.

willdill

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Jaysus, that's expensive enough. They would be partial to a timing chain alright.

Has your mechanic confirmed that the chain has actually broken if it's just badly stretched the engine is most likely recoverable? They usually give an awful lot of forewarning before they break in terms of noise/ cutting out/ failing to start/ check engine light etc.

Yes he showed where it had snapped.He asked was it struggling taking of from a stop which it was but i thought maybe because it was a turbo car which i had never previously owned.

Toyotafanboi

Does the garage you bought from know it's broken?

willdill

bucketybuck wrote: »

Can you prove that the engine stutter you reported and the timing chain breaking were related faults?

If the dealer says it was just coincidence what will your response be?

No not really mate but he said chain can not snapped once servicied properly which supposedly they had done weeks before.

willdill

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Does the garage you bought from know it's broken?

Yes i rang the dealer tonight he questioned it but then said have it towwed to him tomorrow and his mechanic will look at it.

Toyotafanboi

willdill wrote: »

No not really mate but he said chain can not snapped once servicied properly which supposedly they had done weeks before.

The chain won't snap if it's been serviced with correct oil every service for the last 9 years. Even if the last service used the correct oil, it makes no odds if the service history isn't great. Tbh, even at that the chains in those cars can be a lottery.

willdill wrote: »

Yes i rang the dealer tonight he questioned it but then said have it towwed to him tomorrow and his mechanic will look at it.

That sounds promising. Be firm with him but don't get your back up too much. You really have to see what move he's making before you can make yours.

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Tbh, even at that the chains in those cars can be a lottery.

I'm not familiar with the model but I do wonder about this. There is a mentality out there that chains are chains and don't need to be worried about in the same way as a timing belt, that there is nothing to be adjusted or changed on a chain during service, and that if they fail they fail immediately rather than getting progressively worse over time and giving any warning signs. As such any mechanical failure will be nobody's fault and simply one of those things.

Is all of that true? I don't know for that model, but if you went to court and tried to claim that the seller should stand over the repair despite it happening outside the agreed warranty then those are beliefs that would have to be factually refuted.

Toyotafanboi

That's deep.

The chains in those have a self adjusting tensioner and there is no recommended maintenance schedule or replacement interval.

They are somehow inherently flawed though. They have a seemingly very high failure rate. I don't honestly know the exact nature of why they are crap but they are prone to stretching over time yet even seemingly perfectly intact ones can jump teeth after an oil change.

That said, generally they give plenty of notice, you could forgive a layman for not recognising the noise from it but the check engine light will come on at the drop of a hat and in the later stages of stretching they can be characteristically very hard to start.

Those engines are unnecessarily complex, particularly if it's the twin charged model.

JohnBoy26

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not familiar with the model but I do wonder about this. There is a mentality out there that chains are chains and don't need to be worried about in the same way as a timing belt, that there is nothing to be adjusted or changed on a chain during service, and that if they fail they fail immediately rather than getting progressively worse over time and giving any warning signs. As such any mechanical failure will be nobody's fault and simply one of those things.

Is all of that true? I don't know for that model, but if you went to court and tried to claim that the seller should stand over the repair despite it happening outside the agreed warranty then those are beliefs that would have to be factually refuted.

No not all of it, not all timing chains are the same or as reliable as each other. Some cars with timing chain issues have sudden issues such as a snapped chain and others such as the mk2 almera get progressively worse over time.

A chain in theory should be maintenance free outside of oil changes, however even frequent oil changes sometimes can't cure bad design but can sometimes help put off the inevitable.

Sometimes preventative maintenance can be carried out to prevent chain failure, for example replacing the tensioner where the tensioner is prone to failure on certain cars.

willdill

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's deep.

The chains in those have a self adjusting tensioner and there is no recommended maintenance schedule or replacement interval.

They are somehow inherently flawed though. They have a seemingly very high failure rate. I don't honestly know the exact nature of why they are crap but they are prone to stretching over time yet even seemingly perfectly intact ones can jump teeth after an oil change.

That said, generally they give plenty of notice, you could forgive a layman for not recognising the noise from it but the check engine light will come on at the drop of a hat and in the later stages of stretching they can be characteristically very hard to start.

Those engines are unnecessarily complex, particularly if it's the twin charged model.

It the 1.4 tsi 170bhp.Defo no warning light came on

Toyotafanboi

That's the twin charged one. Nice car when it's going in fairness.

willdill

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's the twin charged one. Nice car when it's going in fairness.

Yep its a lovely car alright.incase i didnt get any kind of a refund how much could i be looking at to get it sorted guys

Toyotafanboi

There's a drought of those engines second hand so if you do find one, it'll not be cheap and you may not get a warranty on it. If you do find an engine €700-€1k ish plus fitting. Bare in mind though, that even then, the engine you buy may need a chain at any time at random.

Depending where you go, properly assessing the damage to your own and repairing it may be similarly priced but a much more logical and viable option. Getting someone to take on the job though is another story.

Henry Ford III

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's the twin charged one. Nice car when it's going in fairness.

..and a bit of a pig when it isn't.

A difficult used buy as they are likely to have endured a hard life -1.4l with good power would appeal to the wrong market perhaps?

Arthur Daley

You have to wonder about VAG and these timing chains that can go at the drop of a hat. Why did VAG put these chains into millions of cars for the last 15 years, without a care for developing a fix, and jeopardise their hard earned reputation.

blackbox

Arthur Daley wrote: »

You have to wonder about VAG and these timing chains that can go at the drop of a hat. Why did VAG put these chains into millions of cars for the last 15 years, without a care for developing a fix, and jeopardise their hard earned reputation.

If their reputation was important to them they'd hardly have got involved in cheating emissions tests.

.

JohnBoy26

Arthur Daley wrote: »

You have to wonder about VAG and these timing chains that can go at the drop of a hat. Why did VAG put these chains into millions of cars for the last 15 years, without a care for developing a fix, and jeopardise their hard earned reputation.

What hard earned reputation? vag has always been vastly overrated when it comes to quality and reliability even though many of their cars were only average in those departments. The "german engineering" thing has always been spouted by journalists and people seem to have bought into that.

Arthur Daley

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

What hard earned reputation? vag has always been vastly overrated when it comes to quality and reliability even though many of their cars were only average in those departments. The "german engineering" thing has always been spouted by journalists and people seem to have bought into that.

I suggest that most people view a VW or Audi as a 'cut above'. They charge a premium for this as a result. So it is generally fair to say they have a strong brand and a reputation for quality.

You may differ in this opinion, but in general most people see them as a premium product, and many are willing to pay that bit more to drive them.

willdill

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

There's a drought of those engines second hand so if you do find one, it'll not be cheap and you may not get a warranty on it. If you do find an engine €700-€1k ish plus fitting. Bare in mind though, that even then, the engine you buy may need a chain at any time at random.

Depending where you go, properly assessing the damage to your own and repairing it may be similarly priced but a much more logical and viable option. Getting someone to take on the job though is another story.

Is it a big job mate.How long and would it be as good as a new one.

JohnBoy26

Arthur Daley wrote: »

I suggest that most people view a VW or Audi as a 'cut above'. They charge a premium for this as a result. So it is generally fair to say they have a strong brand and a reputation for quality.

You may differ in this opinion, but in general most people see them as a premium product, and many are willing to pay that bit more to drive them.

My point exactly, they are viewed as a cut above and always have been even though for most of that time they have been average so I don't see how these timing chain issues will affect them that much in terms of their reputation.