Evicting annoying flatmate

ArifI

i was trying to get some info on evicting annoying flatmate.

I have lived in dublin 11 years, and this is the first time i had an annoying flatmate. it's 130am and he's blasting some latin song in full volume on phone while taking shower, blocking only toilet of the apartment for almost 1 and half hour.

the flat is in my name, and when he moved in one month ago- we agreed on 30 days notice to evict if needed be. so I am going to give him 30 days notice.

just want to know if there's a catch that i am unaware of or what i should be careful of. thanks in advance.

rawn

Eviction seems a bit harsh! Have you spoken to him and asked him to keep the music off in the wee hours? If he likes to take long showers he probably thinks he's being polite by showering at this hour rather than during the day.

ArifI

rawn wrote: »

Eviction seems a bit harsh! Have you spoken to him and asked him to keep the music off in the wee hours? If he likes to take long showers he probably thinks he's being polite by showering at this hour rather than during the day.

we have talked few times; about cleanliness, blocking toilet throughout the day, noise, mess around kitchen, ignoring fire safety, etc. like i said, this is first time we are seeing this kind of behaviour. about eviction i might have worded it wrong- but I do have to tell him to go. just want to know if there is anything i am unaware of.

1874

ArifI wrote: »

i was trying to get some info on evicting annoying flatmate.

I have lived in dublin 11 years, and this is the first time i had an annoying flatmate. it's 130am and he's blasting some latin song in full volume on phone while taking shower, blocking only toilet of the apartment for almost 1 and half hour.

the flat is in my name, and when he moved in one month ago- we agreed on 30 days notice to evict if needed be. so I am going to give him 30 days notice.

just want to know if there's a catch that i am unaware of or what i should be careful of. thanks in advance.

If the place is in your name, then he has no contract as such, perhaps have a chat with the guy first but I would not tolerate someone playing loud music at 1.30 am.
If you need to use the toilet, cant you knock on the door and say you gotta go urgently and vacate the bathroom. Blocking access to shared facilities for a long time is not on.
It is highly inconsiderate in my opinion what they are doing, but some people are clueless to the social etiquette of other countries (from the latin music thing, Im taking that the person is not Irish or used to living in certain shared situations) not that being Irish means being socially conscious, far from it, but some people from some places are much worse regarding consideration.

Maybe chat with the guy first, if he disputes it or worse apologises but then continues, get rid then. Best to clear up every eventuality right at the outset and lay down all the rules at the beginning, if they cant accept them at that point or think its too much then no loss to you, if they did and then cant keep to them, then show them the door and you have not done any wrong when you raise it with them.

Some people are utterly unconcerned and lack the faintest consideration.

1874

ArifI wrote: »

we have talked few times; about cleanliness, blocking toilet throughout the day, noise, mess around kitchen, ignoring fire safety, etc. like i said, this is first time we are seeing this kind of behaviour. about eviction i might have worded it wrong- but I do have to tell him to go. just want to know if there is anything i am unaware of.

So you have already spoken to them, well I think its time to give them notice.
Is the lease in your name or are they of the understanding that it is? and they are just in the door a month and at all this.
One more warning might resolve it, but with all this too and it seems you are not happy and they dont seem to be keeping to certain ground rules, it would not seem like they would have any case.
Even an actual signed up tenant cannot dispute pretty much anything until they have passed the 6 month mark, this person sounds like he has sublet a room off you or the other existing tenants.

What was his answer to you raising the other problems? Id say, cool down now and bring it up tomorrow when you are not so annoyed by it.

ArifI

thanks, I will give him the notice.

we talked with him about three times, and everytime he says he is sorry and he will be careful but it never gets better.

and yes the lease is in my name.

any idea what if he refuses to leave the flat? what would be my steps then? i only found tenant rights on daft.ie- nothing perticular regarding my situation.

thanks again in advance.

1874

ArifI wrote: »

thanks, I will give him the notice.

we talked with him about three times, and everytime he says he is sorry and he will be careful but it never gets better.

and yes the lease is in my name.

any idea what if he refuses to leave the flat? what would be my steps then? i only found tenant rights on daft.ie- nothing perticular regarding my situation.

thanks again in advance.

Does he have any formal agreement in writing with you or the landlord?
even if he does, 1 month confers no rights.
maybe give him one last chance and lay down all the rules, one breach and give him one months notice, but thats up to you, maybe you had enough and anyone warned and who still continues is a douche bag in my opinion.

What if he refuses, tell him to piss off, contact the landlord or agent that you need to change the locks, get their agreement though, either they do it or you and get them their set of keys (so long as they agree).

How long are you there? any violence or threat or actual theft then call the Gardai or warn them you will do so.

You seem uncertain you cant get them to leave, just give them their notice and tell them they arent working out and they might find a place that can tolerate that kind of thing. Are they physically bigger than you that this concerns you? or you dont want the hassle?

1874

1 month in, no formal agreement, he has no rights,
How many others are there? you and how many? others? everyone in agreement?
If so, I dont see how he can contest it, he can kick up a fuss but he has scuppered or soured the arrangement.

I suggest writing down the things he has done that you (or others) arent happy about, so you dont forget in in the heat of a conversation.
If you have raised them with him just say, look, you were told you cant make noise in the middle of the night/unsocial hours/mess/other problems, its continued, apologies are worth nothing if someone just keeps doing it.
Tell him he cant stick to the agreement and you pay for the use of shared facilities and need sleep/to live in a place that is kept clean etc etc

Samuel T. Cogley

Does he not get Part IV rights off the back of the OP's? Genuine question I'm still trying to wrap my head around those sections.

IF not get rid ASAP, this sort of stuff goes without saying tbh. Even one attempt at talking it out is generous let alone three.

Graham

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Does he not get Part IV rights off the back of the OP's? Genuine question I'm still trying to wrap my head around those sections.

IF not get rid ASAP, this sort of stuff goes without saying tbh. Even one attempt at talking it out is generous let alone three.

Not after a month and if I remember correctly he/she can claim part 4 rights after a specified period (6 months rings a bell).

Bushmanpm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

Does he not get Part IV rights off the back of the OP's? Genuine question I'm still trying to wrap my head around those sections.

I wouldn't have thought so unless Latino music person is named on the original lease as well. I'm open to correction on this, obviously.
As they've only been there one month I doubt he is and as its already this sour so soon I'd suggest getting rid quick smart.

Samuel T. Cogley

Thanks guys just reread section 50 - six months, but those six months can be as a licensee and 50(8) should be noted by tenants letting to sub-tenants.

Michael D Not Higgins

As long as you don't have a written contract, he's only entitled to reasonably notice. 30 days notice is fine as he's a licensee. If he causes any trouble during the notice period you are legally allowed to remove him from the property. He has no tenancy rights in this instance.

Bushmanpm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

Thanks guys just reread section 50 - six months, but those six months can be as a licensee and 50(8) should be noted by tenants letting to sub-tenants.

It must make Tolstoy look like Enid Blyton!

Samuel T. Cogley

It's not too bad but some of the aside comments I've read here on occasion (and probably picked up wrong) sometime muddy the waters a bit. That's not a criticism of anyone but myself.

50.—(1) Subsection (2) applies unless the multiple tenant concerned benefits, by virtue of the preceding Chapters of this Part, from the protection of the Part 4 tenancy on its coming into existence.


(2) A multiple tenant who was in occupation of a dwelling immediately before the coming into existence of a Part 4 tenancy in respect of it shall, on his or her having been in occupation of the dwelling for a continuous period of 6 months (and that tenancy still subsists), benefit from the protection of that tenancy; accordingly the rights, restrictions and obligations under this Part shall, on and from the expiry of that period of 6 months, apply in relation to that multiple tenant as they apply in relation to the multiple tenant whose continuous occupation gave rise to the Part 4 tenancy's existence.


(3) Any person who the landlord accepts as a tenant of a dwelling on, or subsequent to, a Part 4 tenancy coming into existence in respect of it, shall, on his or her having been in occupation of the dwelling for a continuous period of 6 months (and that tenancy still subsists), benefit from the protection of that tenancy; accordingly, the rights, restrictions and obligations under this Part shall, on and from the expiry of that period of 6 months, apply in relation to that person as they apply in relation to the multiple tenant whose continuous occupation gave rise to the Part 4 tenancy's existence.


(4) The reference in subsection (3) to a landlord's accepting a person as a tenant is a reference to his or her accepting a person as a tenant—


(a) whether as a replacement for any of the existing multiple tenants or as an additional tenant to them, and


(b) whether or not the person was immediately before that acceptance a licensee in occupation of the dwelling.


(5) For the purpose of reckoning the continuous period of occupation referred to in subsections (2) and (3), any period of continuous occupation by the person concerned of the dwelling as a licensee (whether that period begins before, on or after the Part 4 tenancy came into existence) may be counted with any continuous period of occupation by that person of the dwelling as a tenant that follows on immediately from it.


(6) For the purpose of, amongst other things, ensuring that the distinction that exists between licences and tenancies does not operate to frustrate the objectives of this Part in cases to which this Chapter applies, subsections (7) and (8) are enacted.


(7) A person who is lawfully in occupation of the dwelling concerned as a licensee of the tenant or the multiple tenants, as the case may be, during the subsistence of a Part 4 tenancy may request the landlord of the dwelling to allow him or her to become a tenant of the dwelling.


(8) The landlord may not unreasonably refuse to accede to such a request; if the request is acceded to—


(a) an acknowledgement in writing by the landlord that the requester has become a tenant of the landlord suffices for the purpose,


(b) the requester shall hold the dwelling—


(i) on the same terms, or as appropriately modified, as those on which the existing tenant or multiple tenants hold the dwelling (other than terms comprising the rights, restrictions and obligations which arise by virtue of a Part 4 tenancy being in existence in respect of the dwelling),


(ii) upon (if such be the case) subsection (3) being satisfied in respect of the requester, subject to the same rights, restrictions and obligations as those subject to which the multiple tenant whose continuous occupation gave rise to the Part 4 tenancy's existence holds the dwelling.

the_syco

Graham wrote: »

Not after a month and if I remember correctly he/she can claim part 4 rights after a specified period (6 months rings a bell).

He can ask the landlord for part iv rights after 6 months. And the landlord can't refuse a reasonable request. But he'd have to get the landlords contact details for that. Didn't see in the rules if the tenant subletting to the licencee has to give said landlords info to the licencee, though?

ArifI wrote: »

any idea what if he refuses to leave the flat? what would be my steps then?

INAL, so I'm unsure if you can't just change the locks when he goes to work after the 30 days.

ArifI

Thanks guys- crisis sorted. he agreed to leave next month. all the best to all of you.