Charged more than what is printed on receipt

chillywilly

I bought a vape kit from a vape shop today. I was told the kit was €70 which I paid.

When I asked the man for a receipt he said "Oh the receipt says €60 but its actually €70" so he writes €70 on it and initials it and gives me the receipt.

Now this could be an honest mistake on the employees part or he could be putting on a margin on it to skim it himself.

Anyone know what my rights are here? Can they do that? Should I have been charged €60?

Lux23

Once he told the correct price that is fine. Just a bit of a dodgy practice for any retailer to engage in.

Seth Brundle

Was he the owner or an employee?
Seems like either a scam against the revenue commsssioners or his employer?

njs030

The receipt says 70, he changed and initiated it so if there's any problems with you returning it to another staff member they know what you were charged and by who.
The rest isn't your problem but it sounds like the till system hasn't been updated to reflect price changes.

chillywilly

kbannon wrote: »

Was he the owner or an employee?
Seems like either a scam against the revenue commsssioners or his employer?

I don't know if he was the owner or employee although it was a kiosk type set up in a shopping centre so I thought he was nore than likely an employee.

BobPresto

So the shop will only pay the VAT on €60 and not €70? That doesn't sound right.

coylemj

BobPresto wrote: »

So the shop will only pay the VAT on €60 and not €70? That doesn't sound right.

If he hadn't asked for a receipt, the taxman would get nothing.

More and more I get asked 'do you want a receipt?' - in most cases even while the cash register or credit card machine is in the process of printing it so it's nothing to do with saving on the tally roll or printer ink.

It's generally a VAT scam as I see it though in the OP's case I'd say the store owner is the loser because he is never going to know that €70 was handed over.

Former Former

People are looking at this as though the employee is scamming the stall owner, pocketing the extra 10 quid. Fair enough.

But if that's the case, isn't the OP also getting scammed?

beechwood55

coylemj wrote: »

If he hadn't asked for a receipt, the taxman would get nothing.

More and more I get asked 'do you want a receipt?' - in most cases even while the cash register or credit card machine is in the process of printing it so it's nothing to do with saving on the tally roll or printer ink.

It's generally a VAT scam as I see it though in the OP's case I'd say the store owner is the loser because he is never going to know that €70 was handed over.

How is it a VAT scam?

chillywilly

beechwood55 wrote: »

How is it a VAT scam?

I think what he means is that the company will pay tax on €60 which is what printed on the receipt instead of the €70 which was taken in.

coylemj

beechwood55 wrote: »

How is it a VAT scam?

chillywilly wrote: »

I think what he means is that the company will pay tax on €60 which is what printed on the receipt instead of the €70 which was taken in.

+1 and if the retailer asks the customer 'do you want a receipt?' while the machine is printing it, it suggests (to me) that if the customer declines the offer and the retailer throws the receipt in the bin, it means that the VAT man won't hear about the transaction.

Ave Sodalis

coylemj wrote:

More and more I get asked 'do you want a receipt?' - in most cases even while the cash register or credit card machine is in the process of printing it so it's nothing to do with saving on the tally roll or printer ink.

coylemj wrote:

+1 and if the retailer asks the customer 'do you want a receipt?' while the machine is printing it, it suggests (to me) that if the customer declines the offer and the retailer throws the receipt in the bin, it means that the VAT man won't hear about the transaction.

Actually, it's more often because the person behind the till is tired of getting the majority of receipts thrown back at them, or having time wasted standing to give the receipt only for the customer to walk off without it. This happens the vast majority of the time. It's rare people take receipts.

If the machine is printing receipts, it means that all transactions are computerised and are therefore on a database. There's a good chance the retailer printed off a duplicate receipt in order to make note of the price afterwards, giving the original to the customer due to the price confusion. The printing of receipts for customers doesn't effect the VAT paid by the retailer at all, if everything is on a computer.

What was the item advertised at OP?

chillywilly

sup_dude wrote: »

Actually, it's more often because the person behind the till is tired of getting the majority of receipts thrown back at them, or having time wasted standing to give the receipt only for the customer to walk off without it. This happens the vast majority of the time. It's rare people take receipts.

If the machine is printing receipts, it means that all transactions are computerised and are therefore on a database. There's a good chance the retailer printed off a duplicate receipt in order to make note of the price afterwards, giving the original to the customer due to the price confusion. The printing of receipts for customers doesn't effect the VAT paid by the retailer at all, if everything is on a computer.

What was the item advertised at OP?

The price wasn't displayed. I asked the guy and he said €70. It was only at the very end when i requested a receipt that he said the price was wrong on receipt.

I'm going to ring up the head office today and ask them how much they sell the product for. If they say €60 then it looks like the employee added €10 for himself imo.

GrumpyMe

sup_dude wrote: »

Actually, it's more often because the person behind the till is tired of getting the majority of receipts thrown back at them, or having time wasted standing to give the receipt only for the customer to walk off without it. This happens the vast majority of the time. It's rare people take receipts.

Probably correct - easier to dump them before having to sweep them off the floor and path outside - especially on wet days.

sup_dude wrote: »

If the machine is printing receipts, it means that all transactions are computerised and are therefore on a database. There's a good chance the retailer printed off a duplicate receipt in order to make note of the price afterwards, giving the original to the customer due to the price confusion. The printing of receipts for customers doesn't effect the VAT paid by the retailer at all, if everything is on a computer.

I'm not sure the Revenue Commissioners would take such a generous, understanding and benign view... :rolleyes:

davo10

The shop offers the item at a price (€70), the buyer accepts the price (€70), the contract is completed by the buyer paying for it (€70). The buyer received the goods, and a receipt, albeit corrected by the seller. What's the problem here?

Have you considered that the shop increased the item price from €60 to €70 but haven't changed the barcode price on their tills?

Op you agreed to buy at €70, you have the item and a receipt if anything goes wrong, move on, life's to short.

Ave Sodalis

chillywilly wrote:

I'm going to ring up the head office today and ask them how much they sell the product for. If they say €60 then it looks like the employee added €10 for himself imo.

That's the only thing you can do.

GrumpyMe wrote:

I'm not sure the Revenue Commissioners would take such a generous, understanding and benign view...

I think you've misunderstood me. Everything needed for tax on the business is on a electronic database. You scan an item, the fact you did so gets stored. Shops and businesses with a till do not need to keep the receipts the till prints out for the customer. The only receipts a shop needs are the ones taken from delivery vans.

chillywilly

davo10 wrote: »

The shop offers the item at a price (€70), the buyer accepts the price (€70), the contract is completed by the buyer paying for it (€70). The buyer received the goods, and a receipt, albeit corrected by the seller. What's the problem here?

Have you considered that the shop increased the item price from €60 to €70 but haven't changed the barcode price on their tills?

Op you agreed to buy at €70, you have the item and a receipt if anything goes wrong, move on, life's to short.

Yes I have considered that and that may well be correct. I'm by no means losing sleep over this but at the same time if it is the case whereby the employee pocketed a tenner for himself then I would prefer not to be shafted.

Xterminator

It would seem no harm to call up the shop and ask how much the product is. Easily to do, will set your mind at ease.

however there are a number of possible explanations and not all of them are devious. In ireland people are afforded the presumption of innocence, until proven otherwise.

Except it seems on the internet where the opposite applies.

Kat1170

davo10 wrote: »

The shop offers the item at a price (€70), the buyer accepts the price (€70), the contract is completed by the buyer paying for it (€70). The buyer received the goods, and a receipt, albeit corrected by the seller. What's the problem here?

Have you considered that the shop increased the item price from €60 to €70 but haven't changed the barcode price on their tills?

Op you agreed to buy at €70, you have the item and a receipt if anything goes wrong, move on, life's to short.

Have you considered the that the 'initials' written on the receipt may be false, that the OP now has a 'doctored' receipt and if they ever have to return the item and there is a different person serving they could be told to take a hike as nobody with those initials ever worked here and you must have done that yourself.

I find that the kind of people who are only too quick to say 'move on, life is too short' when they are talking about someone else's money, are the kind to cause holy murder when its theirs :rolleyes:

Conservative

OP: did you pay cash or card? I'd be surprised if a place like this wasn't offering receipts as a rule for €70 sales. That is certainly not a good policy.

If they are the owner or manager changing a price on a point of sale would normally take about 30 seconds so that is not an excuse for not issuing correct receipts.

If they are an employee and overcharging you a tenner they would have to be extremely stupid and if it was done with any kind of regularity they would be caught. It's not difficult to identify a staff member in a kiosk regardless of whether they provide receipts or not.

To the other posters point about being asked whether they require a receipt this is because a good percentage of people do not want receipts and so the customer and cashier can finish the transaction quicker and move on to the next thing.

Do people honestly think that paper receipts are used to calculate VAT returns in 2017?

TerrorFirmer

The most obvious explanation to me seems that the guy either owns the kiosk or is under instruction to gauge reaction on prices. He could say it's 70, and if you disagree, he can then say he'll do it for 60 - buying party feels like he's gotten a bargain and seller gets the price he was happy to settle for in the first place.

That seems more plausible to me than an employee so stupid as to be attempting to pull a scam in that manner. The second one person comes back to another employee or the boss with a query, faulty item, etc and explains the story with the receipt, that guy's not only out of a job but could be reported to the Gardai and arrested.