Acceptable witnesses for getting passport

According to the department of foreign affairs website, the following people may act as witness for people getting a passport signed.

Your witness can be a:
Member of the Garda Síochána
Member of clergy
Medical doctor
Lawyer
Bank manager/assistant bank manager
Elected public representative
Notary public/ commissioner for oaths
Peace commissioner
School principal/vice principal
Accountant
Teacher
Dentist
Vet
Nurse
Physiotherapist
Speech Therapist
Lecturer
Credit Union manager
Pharmacist
Chartered Engineer

Anybody know what the rationale is for why people working in these professions/jobs can act as a witness but other people can not? I was thinking that it might have been becaue they gave evidence that the person was themselves resident here for long enough to train up in one of these professions but the cynical part of me wonders is the rationale simply that these people are deemed to be more respectable and trustworthy or something? On the face of it, it seems like a fairly colourful mixture of occupations.

Zebra3

Old-fashioned snobbery.

Who after all in this day of age would trust anyone working in the RC Church?

Guy:Incognito

The answer may well lie in when the lost was compiled . Is this a legacy thing that was never changed or updated?

Grayson

Are they all members of professions that are certified in some way?

Guy:Incognito

Zebra3 wrote: »

Old-fashioned snobbery.

Who after all in this day of age would trust anyone working in the RC Church?

They could be the best witnesses, sure they may well have had their eye on a lad since he was a small boy. They'd know exactly who he was

ballsymchugh

Zebra3 wrote: »

Old-fashioned snobbery.

Who after all in this day of age would trust anyone working in the RC Church?

not all clergy are Catholic

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The answer may well lie in when the lost was compiled . Is this a legacy thing that was never changed or updated?

No idea. That would seem plausable though.

PhoenixParker

Grayson wrote: »

Are they all members of professions that are certified in some way?

Yes and easily traceable particularly in a non-computer society.

Also the list of options is long enough that most people would have a personal connection to at least one qualifying individual.

PhoenixParker

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Yes and easily traceable particularly in a non-computer society.

Also the list of options is long enough that most people would have a personal connection to at least one qualifying individual.

Yeah I suppose its just about long enough of a list that even someone without friends or family is bound to have some kind of connection to one of them. And it can't be denied that many of those occupations *do* in fact form the "pillars" of the community in a way that other occupations don't.

I'll have to switch off my "un-self-concscious snobbery" detector!

Zebra3

ballsymchugh wrote: »

not all clergy are Catholic

Who said they were?

RoYoBo

This witness list is for parents/guardians getting a child's passport.

scheister

just had a look at the website. The list above is in cases where you want a passport for a child (section 7 of form)
But a guard must sign section 9 of form regardless so why cant the guard simple simply sign both sections and save the need of having the above list

Guy:Incognito

scheister wrote: »

just had a look at the website. The list above is in cases where you want a passport for a child (section 7 of form)
But a guard must sign section 9 of form regardless so why cant the guard simple simply sign both sections and save the need of having the above list

Because they might not have a clue who you are? A witness who doesn't witness something isn't much of a witness.

seamus

This witness list only applies when you're applying for a passport for a child.

It's an anti-fraud and child safety measure. The idea being that any of these people are traceable and with significant ties to Ireland - i.e. not someone who'll be gone tomorrow.

You provide a phone number and the person processing the application rings the witness to establish that the child exists, the application is valid, the witness is valid, etc etc.

Guy:Incognito

seamus wrote: »

It's an anti-fraud and child safety measure. The idea being that any of these people are traceable

.

Unless they are being moved to a different par.. ... sorry area, for undisclosed work reasons ?

pickarooney

This ****e does my head in when renewing my passport abroad. I literally got laughed out of a police station one time I tried to get a cop to sign it

Lia_lia

When were were kids and needed new passports my Mother had to get it signed in Ireland and then send it to France to my Dad so he could get a witness to sign it over there and then send it back here again before we could put in the application. Every 5 years! Was such a rigmarole.

jester77

pickarooney wrote: »

This ****e does my head in when renewing my passport abroad. I literally got laughed out of a police station one time I tried to get a cop to sign it

You can do it online without any of that nonsense now and you don't need to return the old. That was ridiculous, had to get an emergency passport last time to tide me over.

pickarooney

jester77 wrote: »

You can do it online without any of that nonsense now and you dying need to return the old. That was ridiculous, had to get an emergency passport last time to tide me over.

Is that not just for the card thing which you need a passport for anyway?

ohnonotgmail

pickarooney wrote: »

Is that not just for the card thing which you need a passport for anyway?

No you can renew both the passport book and get a passport card online. once you have the photo taken in an appropriate photo booth it only takes 10 minutes to do. I had mine within a week.

TheDriver

The guard signs the bit proving identity of child, the other bit is proving identity of both parents. Sometimes its difficult to get both parents and child to Garda station.
As Principal, very very few ask me for this.

pickarooney

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No you can renew both the passport book and get a passport card online. once you have the photo taken in an appropriate photo booth it only takes 10 minutes to do. I had mine within a week.

Is this really new? I got mine renewed in February and had to go through the whole song and dance.
And pay with a flipping cheque

ohnonotgmail

pickarooney wrote: »

Is this really new? I got mine renewed in February and had to go through the whole song and dance.
And pay with a flipping cheque [/]

a cheque? HAHAHAHAHA *cough* sorry. yeah its all very simple now.

TheDriver

pickarooney wrote: »

Is this really new? I got mine renewed in February and had to go through the whole song and dance.
And pay with a flipping cheque

Did you cross it?????

ash23

Lia_lia wrote: »

When were were kids and needed new passports my Mother had to get it signed in Ireland and then send it to France to my Dad so he could get a witness to sign it over there and then send it back here again before we could put in the application. Every 5 years! Was such a rigmarole.

My child's father isn't around so when I have to get her passport I have to go to a solicitor and sign an oath that I'm her sole guardian. Solicitor signs the form and the back of her birth certificate and charges me 10-15 euro per signature.

It's an absolute pain in the arse. Her father's name isn't on the birth certificate. If he couldn't be arsed coming to sign her birth certificate they hardly think he's going to be around to sign for a passport.

ash23

ash23 wrote: »

My child's father isn't around so when I have to get her passport I have to go to a solicitor and sign an oath that I'm her sole guardian. Solicitor signs the form and the back of her birth certificate and charges me 10-15 euro per signature.

It's an absolute pain in the arse. Her father's name isn't on the birth certificate. If he couldn't be arsed coming to sign her birth certificate they hardly think he's going to be around to sign for a passport.

But he may have been appointed guardian after the birth cert was created. The alternatives are that his consent be required to the issue of the passport, a bigger pain that might require a Court application to dispense with this, or that his participation would be unnecessary, which would go to the heart of the role of a guardian.

diomed

\o/
made the list

ash23

Deleted User wrote: »

But he may have been appointed guardian after the birth cert was created. The alternatives are that his consent be required to the issue of the passport, a bigger pain that might require a Court application to dispense with this, or that his participation would be unnecessary, which would go to the heart of the role of a guardian.

Realistically though I am walking into a place where they don't know me from Eve and saying that I am a sole guardian and they are signing a form. It'd be as easy to let me do it at the garda station. Seeing as I can get the form for her passport signed at the station if her father were around, I don't see the need to go to a commissioner of oaths and have to pay an extra 20-30 quid plus have her birth cert scrawled all over in the process.

ash23

ash23 wrote: »

Realistically though I am walking into a place where they don't know me from Eve and saying that I am a sole guardian and they are signing a form. It'd be as easy to let me do it at the garda station. Seeing as I can get the form for her passport signed at the station if her father were around, I don't see the need to go to a commissioner of oaths and have to pay an extra 20-30 quid plus have her birth cert scrawled all over in the process.

The Solicitor should establish your identity by means of some documentation like your own passport or a driving licence, retain that as they can be contacted afterwards to verify you executed the documentation, and administer the oath...they don't vouch for the contents of the Affidavit/Declaration. The reasons you have to get it done are very legitimate ones though, particularly in this day and age. Very often it arises in a different context, with people concerned that a partner from overseas will remove a child from the jurisdiction and not return. So the Passport Office are concerned to ensure that Guardians consent where such consent is needed, or a sworn document stating that there is no other Guardian is produced. Yes, they don't know you from Eve, but again the alternatives are far more difficult to address and often require Court applications costing hundreds.

ash23

What is the difference between a Garda and a commissioner of oaths doing it?
I understand that its necessary but why the added hassle and expense of going to a commissioner of oaths?

The list in the OP is pretty extensive. Why can't one of those also deal with the affidavit?

ash23

ash23 wrote: »

What is the difference between a Garda and a commissioner of oaths doing it?
I understand that its necessary but why the added hassle and expense of going to a commissioner of oaths?

The list in the OP is pretty extensive. Why can't one of those also deal with the affidavit?

Because Affidavits can only be sworn in front of a Commissioner for Oaths. There is a procedure to be observed

Without a Commissioner for Oaths, the document changes from a sworn "Affidavit" with all the legal implications that brings, particularly where they set out false information, to a "piece of paper with signature".

It's a very standard role across many legal jurisdictions. As are Peace Commissioners and Notaries Public. Think of the implications for, say, a search warrant, if it could be signed off by a Garda and did not need a Peace Commissioner.