Coral Eclipse 2017

tryfix

Algometer 4 9-7 D M Simcock 66/1

Barney Roy 3 8-11 R Hannon 4/1

Blond Me (IRE) 5 9-4 A M Balding 66/1

Eminent (IRE) 3 8-11 M Meade 9/2

Cliffs Of Moher (IRE) 3 8-11 A P O'brien 3/1

Jack Hobbs 5 9-7 J H M Gosden 16/1

Decorated Knight 5 9-7 R Charlton 9/1

Desert Encounter (IRE) 5 9-7 D M Simcock 40/1

Johannes Vermeer (IRE) 4 9-7 A P O'Brien 33/1

Lightning Spear 6 9-7 D M Simcock 20/1

Salouen (IRE) 3 8-11 S Kirk 66/1

Taj Mahal (IRE) 3 8-11 A P O'Brien 66/1

Ulysses (IRE) 4 9-7 Sir Michael Stoute 9/1

Deauville (IRE) 4 9-7 A P O'Brien 25/1

Permian (IRE) 3 8-11 M Johnston 20/1

Orderofthegarter (IRE) 3 8-11 A P O'Brien 25/1

Sixteen left in at this stage, now is probably a good time to get a price on your fancy before the field cuts up.

tryfix

De Sousa swoops as Crowley loses ride on Eclipse hope Eminent


Champion jockey Jim Crowley, who partnered Eminent to a career-best performance when fourth in the Investec Derby last time out, is to be replaced by Silvestre de Sousa on the Coral-Eclipse hope on Saturday.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/news/de-sousa-swoops-as-crowley-loses-ride-on-eminent/291608


Looks like Eminent's connections are deadly serious about winning the Eclipse. It looks to be a good substitution to me any way.

diomed

At Sandown on Friday 7th July at 14:20 Roussel runs in the 5f Dragon Stakes.

At Royal Ascot he was my one pick on pedigree at the meeting where he finished 2nd beaten a neck in the Listed Windsor Castle Stakes.
Roussel's main opponent on Friday is Mark Johnston's Cardsharp, who was 3rd in the Group 2 Norfolk Stakes beaten 2l.

tryfix

Cliffs Of Moher 7/4
Barney Roy 11/4
Eminent 9/2
Ulysses 13/2
Decorated Knight 8/1
Lightning Spear 25/1
Desert Encounter 40/1
Salouen 50/1
Taj Mahal. 100/1

PP odds

Fast ground has thinned the field down to 9 runners at the latest declaration stage.

There's a lot of stable confidence behind Eminent and Barney Roy while the market favours Cliiffs Of Moher.

At this stage I feel the older horses Decorated Knight and Ulysses may be very underestimated given their form behind Highland Reel in the Prince Of Wales stakes at Royal Ascot. They both came and headed him relatively easily before being sucker-punched by his rally. Both of them have a serious finishing kick and will be well suited by the stiff finish if they are launched late in the race.

madmoose

The 2 yr old allowance should tell here and see one of them take it, i'm strong on Cliffs of Mohers chances back in trip, stronger stayer suited winning the derby from an awkward position and he should have Eminant held for me. Barney Roy an unknown at the trip but well fancied to suit. Should be a good watch.

longshotvalue

tryfix wrote: »

Cliffs Of Moher 7/4
Barney Roy 11/4
Eminent 9/2
Ulysses 13/2
Decorated Knight 8/1
Lightning Spear 25/1
Desert Encounter 40/1
Salouen 50/1
Taj Mahal. 100/1

PP odds

Fast ground has thinned the field down to 9 runners at the latest declaration stage.

There's a lot of stable confidence behind Eminent and Barney Roy while the market favours Cliiffs Of Moher.

At this stage I feel the 4yos Decorated Knight and Ulysses may be very underestimated given their form behind Highland Reel in the Prince Of Wales stakes at Royal Ascot. They both came and headed him relatively easily before being sucker-punched by his rally. Both of them have a serious finishing kick and will be well suited by the stiff finish if they are launched late in the race.

Not a great race really but im getting very interested in Lightning Spear here at a big price. If the 3yo's arnt up to it he may be the best of the older horses, if he stays the 10 furlongs which looks likely enough to me.

tryfix

aidankkk wrote: »

Not a great race really but im getting very interested in Lightning Spear here at a big price. If the 3yo's arnt up to it he may be the best of the older horses, if he stays the 10 furlongs which looks likely enough to me.

Lightning Spear is as credible a challenger as anything in the race, not so sure about the trip for him but he's a 120 horse which is a great start. I feel there's a weakness there in his form, Ribchester over his favourite trip didn't exactly thrash Deauville in the Queen Anne. On that showing both Decorated Knight and Ulysses have the measure of last year's milers.

The weight for age allowance should see the 3yos home but memories of last year's Derby 2nd US Army Ranger are enough to cast doubt on COM at his particular price, having said that COM has shown a lot more speed than US Army Ranger could dream of.

Eminent is basically always ready to thrash the opposition according to glowing reports of his well being until the race has been run and he's come up short again.

Barney Roy has the stamina on the Dam's side and has got a mile really well already, 2nd in the Guineas with stamina is a serious amount of talent to be bringing here. He is also built like a star, but I'm totally underwhelmed by his St James Palace Stakes win ( big swing he beat Lancaster Bomber.

At this stage I can't split Decorated Knight and Ulysses on form and potential, the presence of Jim Crowley on Ulysses is a big blow to his chances, while Peslier is the right jockey on Decorated Knight if he's to be held up for a final sprint to the line.

Sosurface

Ive had a nice go off Decorated Knight and the only one Id fear is Ulysses. While neither one is exactly a worldbeater, this years 3yos are vastly overrated garbage imo and I wouldnt back any of them bar Caravaggio in open company.

diomed

I opened the book Eclipse by Michael Church to read up on the great Eclipse.

On Sunday, 1 April 1764, the shadow of the moon passed over Windsor Great park, where, at noon in a paddock
near Cranbourne Tower, Spiletta gave birth to a chestnut foal, later known to the world as Eclipse.
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/4609071.jpg

Eclipse won 18 races (never beaten).
In seven of the races he “walked over” i.e. no horse raced against him.
Four of his races were four-mile heats, heat one and heat two.
In three of the 4 mile x 2 races Eclipse carried 12st 0lb. Eclipse also ran twice over the 4m 1f 138y Beacon course at Newmarket.
His first race was as a five-year-old. In all of his races he ran against 5yo+ which were the usual racing ages at the time.

Eclipse, a chestnut horse with a white blaze and a white stocking on his off-hind leg, grew to be a magnificent horse. 15.3 hands at the withers
(very few horses reached 15 hands at the time).

Before the second heat Dennis O’Kelly, an Irish adventurer, made two large bets at 6-4 and Evens that he could place all five runners in the correct order.
When asked for the order he replied “Eclipse first, the rest nowhere”, implying that Eclipse had to finish a distance (240 yds) ahead of all his rivals.
Although the five runners were grouped closely together at the three-mile post,
Eclipse went away to fulfil what was to become a famous racing prophecy (judge's call of the finish)
(his first race (5yo) carrying 8st 7lb. 9st 13lb for 6yo+).
In those days horse birthdays were 1 May (now 1 Jan).

Eclipse was bred by William, Duke Of Cumberland (1721-1765), second son of George II.
http://laurapurcell.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/William_Augustus_Duke_of_Cumberland_by_Sir_Joshua_Reynolds.jpg
He was a professional soldier and a Major-General at 22, promoted to Captain-General at 24.
In 1746 he defeated Prince Charles, the Young Pretender, at Culloden Moor in Inverness.
https://travelingwithkrushworth.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/cullodenbattlefield1.jpg
So severe was his crushing of the Stuart rebellion that he gained the nickname Butcher Cumberland.
The flower Sweet William is named after him. In Scotland it is known as Stinking Willie.
http://higgledygarden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/%C5%92illets_Sweet_William.jpg

The nine of diamonds playing card is often referred to as the "Curse of Scotland".
There are a number of reasons given for this connection:
1) It was the playing card used by Sir John Dalrymple, the Earl of Stair, to cryptically authorise the Glencoe Massacre.
Certainly there is a resemblance between the nine of diamonds and his coat of arms.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Earl_of_Stair_COA.svg/2000px-Earl_of_Stair_COA.svg.png
2) The Duke of Cumberland is supposed to have scribbled the order for "no quarter" to be given after the Battle of Culloden on a nine of diamonds playing card.

William Wildman, a large-scale grazier and meat salesman, attended the horse dispersal sale after the Duke’s death.
When Wildman arrived he noted that Eclipse had already been sold for 70 guineas before the advertised time of the sale, and objected.
The lots were put up again and he secured Eclipse for 75 guineas.
Eclipse had a temper so he was sent to George Elton (or Ellers), a “rough-rider” near Epsom,
who rode him about all day and occasional throughout the night to quieten him down.

Wildman knew he had a good horse, but didn’t know how good.
A dawn trial was arranged at Epsom.
The touts found out but arrived too late.
An old lady had witnessed the event “a horse with a white leg running away at a monstrous rate,
and another horse a great way behind, trying to run after him;
but she was sure he would never catch the white-legged horse if he ran to the world’s end”

Wildman sold a half-share in Eclipse to Dennis O’Kelly, born Tullow, Co Carlow, in late May/early June 1769, for 650 guineas.
In April 1670 O’Kelly bought the other half-share for 1,100 guineas.
O’Kelly’s stables were at Epsom, in the infield of the present Epsom course near the 1m 2f start.
Nearby was the “betting ground” where people on horseback placed bets near the betting post.

Eclipse earned O’Kelly over £25,000 at stud.

Dennis O’Kelly’s celebrated parrot “Polley”, hatched in Bristol, was the first parrot born in Britain.
The parrot was reported to “not only repeat everything it was commanded, but it would answer many questions
which appeared to require a high degree of perception” as well as “sing a variety of tunes with exquisite melody”.


Outsiders who won the Eclipse since 1950
1950 Flocon 100/9 (6 ran)
1951 Mystery 100/8 (8 ran)
1953 Argur 100/9 (7 ran)
1965 Canisbay 20/1 (8 ran)
1966 Pieces Of Eight 15/2 (10 ran)
1967 Busted 8/1 (9 ran)
1699 Wolver Hollow 8/1 (7 ran)
1974 Coup De Feu 33/1 (12 ran)
1975 Star Appeal 20/1 (16 ran)
1987 Mtoto 6/1 (8 ran)
1990 Elmaamul 13/2 (7 ran)
1991 Environment Friend 28/1 (7 ran)
1995 Halling 7/1 (8 ran)
1997 Pilsudski 11/2 (5 ran)
1999 Compton Admiral 20/1 (8 ran)
2000 Giant’s Causeway 8/1 (8 ran)

BumperD

I think the 3yr old crop have been under rated.

BumperD

tryfix wrote: »

https://www.racingpost.com/news/news/de-sousa-swoops-as-crowley-loses-ride-on-eminent/291608


Looks like Eminent's connections are deadly serious about winning the Eclipse. It looks to be a good substitution to me any way.

They were really bullish before the Guineas, and even more so for the derby.
And he failed on both occasions. Into open company I would be the least confident of the 3 races, imo.

diomed

Barney Roy: untried at 10f, proven on good/firm. Futures entries in 10f Group 1s
Cliffs Of Moher: Chester form let down by Bay Of Poets. May have been favoured by being off the pace at Epsom.
Decorated Knight: solid form at 10f and on good/firm.
Desert Encounter: form is at a lower level and at 12f.
Eminent: held on form by Barney Roy at 8f, and by Cliffs Of Moher at 12f. May be suited by the long straight at Sandown.
Lightning Spear: Only one 6yo has won the Eclipse, Bendigo in the first running of the race in 1886. Has run only once at 10f, beaten 33l 12th of 13. Classy at 8f.
Salouen: 13th and 7th in his last two races both times ridden by Fran Berry, held up and hit traffic problems. Now ridden by William Buick.
Taj Mahal: ridden today by P B Beggy, Derby winning jockey. He will probably act as pacemaker for Cliffs Of Moher.
Ulysses: good form. 3rd to Highland Reel at Ascot. Beat Deauville earlier in the year, and Deauville was 3rd to Ribchester at Royal Ascot. Yet to win above Group 3.

Decorated Knight and Ulysses have nothing to prove. The other have to step up and beat them.
Obviously I've backed Desert Encounter at 77s.

WickIow Brave

I've gone with Ulysses e/w (8/1) and Taj Mahal e/w (80/1).

Cliffs of Moher is too short and I think he may have been rushed to get ready for the Derby so he can win without my money on.
Barney Roy is actually the most likely winner for me but he looks like an out and out miler atm, wouldn't have ran him here personally.
Ulysses travelled like the best horse in the race in the POW. C&D winner this season and he's overpriced for me.
I've backed Taj Mahal in his last three races and I'm convinced there's a good horse in there somewhere. They're running him nearly every week so he's obviously very lazy and he'll likely be pacing so an aggressive ride should see him to good effect. He's 80/1 and no full Bro to Gleneagles should ever be 80/1 for any race.

Harry Angstrom

If Godolphin didn't have Ribchester for the Sussex, I wonder would they even be looking at the Eclipse for Barney Roy? As it is though, if he gets the trip he's likely to have too much pace for these. I'm never a fan of horses coming back in trip from The Derby to run in this so Cliffs of Moher is too short a price for me and Eminent seems to be too much of a hype horse. The older horses look weak enough.

Barney at 11/4 with Paddy.

Massimo Tara

I see Alex Hammond has backed barney Roy. Avoid like the plague

Harry Angstrom

Massimo Tara wrote: »

I see Alex Hammond has backed barney Roy. Avoid like the plague

Feck!

Copper_pipe

Saturday
Shore Step 2:10 Naas 16/1 Betfair ew (14s General)
Been following this one for a while, 6furlongs is its optimum trip which it gets here. Has won over this trip 4 times over in the UK. Been falling down the rating from a mark as high as 94 to now off 71. Put in an eye catching run last time out over a 7furlong trip at Fairyhouse. "led, ridden 2f out, headed 1f out, no impression final furlong" Think the handbrake comes off today for this one. My Nap of the day.
Shes an Art 4:30 Naas 11/1 ew General
Was 3rd LTO in a handicap at Mallow over the same trip as today. Form of that race has worked out rather well. The winner has since won on the flat and ran a great race at the Punchestown festival over Hurdles. The 2nd in that race has also won a race on the flat and was raised 13 pounds for that win. That horse is now rated 78. Trainer has a decent strike rate at Naas also.

BumperD

Moonmeister for me here at Haydock

BumperD

Maybe not.

Harry Angstrom

That's close.

diomed

Desert Encounter €55 at 85 (he went to 190 before the start).

BorneTobyWilde

Desert Encounter could have won that had it a clear run.

Harry Angstrom

Coolmore trying to be clever and it backfired for them.

diomed

Another Frankel horse, another moderate show (Eminent).
Barney Roy seems to be the only 3yo with repeatable form.

Gregk961

diomed wrote: »

Another Frankel horse, another moderate show (Eminent).
Barney Roy seems to be the only 3yo with repeatable form.

He does look a bit special but his temperment seems a bit questionable. Himself and Churchill(ignoring his RA run) seem the only real quality horses.

tryfix

Confirmation that the Epsom Derby was a poor race and that the 3yo milers are not half bad. Ulysses win shows that Highland Reel is a serious horse this year.

Even with the weight for age allowance and hitting 40 mph on the gallops, Eminent still couldn't step up his form. He's a horse who's been hyped up based on an overrated Craven win.

Cliffs Of Moher beat Eminent again and must have lost out on finishing on the heels of the winner if he'd not been hampered. He looked ill at ease in the race and gave the impression that maybe he should be put away for a while to let him mature into a quality 4yo. Not too sure about his trip either, 12f should be fine for him based on his pedigree and how he finished today's race.

Mgoraf

Agree that COM could be better over the 12f. However he was handy today before being hampered so a strong run 10f when he is on the front end could also be what he needs. Doesn't have the turn of foot to come from behind over that trip I'd say.

Harry Angstrom

Mgoraf wrote: »

Agree that COM could be better over the 12f. However he was handy today before being hampered so a strong run 10f when he is on the front end could also be what he needs. Doesn't have the turn of foot to come from behind over that trip I'd say.

Makes you wonder why Ballydoyle were faffing about with Taj Mahal setting a slow pace for Cliffs Of Moher who was coming back to 10 furlongs from 12. It's possible that if the pace had been quicker, COM wouldn't have been hampered by a bunched field either.

diomed

2009: Sea The Stars ... 2:03.40 (fastest Eclipse)
2017: Ulysses ............ 2:03.49

Harry Angstrom

I'd hazard a guess that the early sectionals of today's race were slow.

tinpib

Aidan sends a few over Belmont Park tonight as well.

Francie Barrett

tinpib wrote: »

Aidan sends a few over Belmont Park tonight as well.

Oscar Performance at 5/1 in the Belmont Derby seems an incredible price to me. Won over course, distance and conditions just recently, it's also best one of Aidan's top War Front progeny (Lancaster Bomber) in the Breeders Cup Juvenile last year. Favourite Yoshida looks like a real hype horse to me.

Copper_pipe

The Stewards were busy for the Eclipse!

THE CORAL-ECLIPSE (CLASS 1) (Group 1) (British Champions Series)

The Stewards held an enquiry into possible interference on the first bend. Having heard their evidence and viewed recordings of the race they found that TAJ MAHAL (IRE), unplaced, ridden by Padraig Beggy, had interfered with DECORATED KNIGHT, placed sixth, ridden by Olivier Peslier, which in turn interfered with CLIFFS OF MOHER (IRE), placed fourth, ridden by Ryan Moore. The Stewards found Beggy in breach of Rule (B)54.1 and guilty of careless riding in that he allowed his mount to drift right-handed when not sufficiently clear, causing Peslier to take a significant check off heels, which left CLIFFS OF MOHER (IRE) short of room and causing it to make contact with the rail and stumble badly. They suspended him for 8 days as follows: Saturday 22 to Saturday 29 July 2017, inclusive. The Stewards held a further enquiry into possible interference approximately 3 furlongs out. Having heard their evidence and viewed recordings of the race they found that EMINENT (IRE), placed fifth, ridden by Silvestre De Sousa, had interfered with DECORATED KNIGHT (IRE). The Stewards found De Sousa in breach Rule (B)54.1 and guilty of careless riding in that he had manouevered to his left to get a run when there was insufficient gap, shifting DECORATED KNIGHT (IRE) off its intended line. They suspended him for 2 days as follows: Saturday 22 and Sunday 23 July 2017. The Stewards also noted that EMINENT (IRE), attempted to bite DECORATED KNIGHT (IRE), during the interference.

The Stewards held an enquiry to consider why ULYSSES (IRE), trained by Sir Michael Stoute, entered the Parade Ring after the signal to mount had been given. Having heard his evidence, and that of the Stewards' Secretary, they found him in breach of Rule (B)27.5 and fined him £1000.

The Stewards held an enquiry into the use of the whip by James Doyle, the rider of BARNEY ROY, placed second, from approximately 1 ½ furlongs out. Having heard his evidence and viewed recordings of the race, they found him in breach of Schedule (B)6 Part 2 in that he had used his whip above the permitted level. As the offence warranted a suspension of between 2 and 6 days and taking into account that this was the rider’s fifth such suspension within the previous 6 months, the Stewards referred Doyle to the Head Office of the British Horseracing Authority.

WickIow Brave

Eminent tried to bite Decorated Knight LOL. Think I remember that actually. These Frankels are just head cases.

BumperD

World class Beggy hit with 8 day ban. Weird.

Johner

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Oscar Performance at 5/1 in the Belmont Derby seems an incredible price to me. Won over course, distance and conditions just recently, it's also best one of Aidan's top War Front progeny (Lancaster Bomber) in the Breeders Cup Juvenile last year. Favourite Yoshida looks like a real hype horse to me.

Delighted for Keen Ice winning there, deserved a nice win.

Nonoperational

Smashing call. Well done. Had a score on it. Pay for the nights take away and beers.

Francie Barrett

Nonoperational wrote: »

Smashing call. Well done. Had a score on it. Pay for the nights take away and beers.

Oscar Performance lived up to its name and smashed up the field. Hype horse Yoshida nowhere.

diomed

From the report above it reads like Decorated Knight got a right going over in the race.

diomed

The English Derby was on very fast ground.
Royal Ascot was on very fast ground.
The Eclipse was on very fast ground.

There might be a superstar waiting for good or softer ground.
When the ground changes things might look a lot different.

jimjamcos

diomed wrote:

There might be a superstar waiting for good or softer ground. When the ground changes things might look a lot different.

If he needs soft ground to show his best he ain't no superstar.

diomed

jimjamcos wrote: »

If he needs soft ground to show his best he ain't no superstar.

You misread my post.

diomed

jimjamcos wrote: »

If he needs soft ground to show his best he ain't no superstar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpo

I'm sure I could make a lengthy list.

Slattsy

I'd be inclined to give Cliffs of Moher another go after that. What was Beggy at? Last ride for Coolmore!?

Of course I backed Ulyssys at Ascot but not yesterday.

jimjamcos

diomed wrote:

You misread my post.

Don't think I did.

diomed

jimjamcos wrote: »

Don't think I did.

This is what I said "good or softer ground"
This is what you said "If he needs soft ground to show his best he ain't no superstar."

Think again.

jimjamcos

diomed wrote:

This is what I said "good or softer ground" This is what you said "If he needs soft ground to show his best he ain't no superstar."

Same logic applies. If he needs soft-er ground he ain't no superstar.

Think again.

diomed

jimjamcos wrote: »

Same logic applies. If he needs soft-er ground he ain't no superstar.

Think again.

You again ignore the word "good"

Seven horses have won the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe twice.
One of those was Motrico, who won the two slowest runnings of the race in 2:44.6 and 2:44.8, about 20 seconds slower than Danedream's time.
By your logic that horse that won Europe's biggest race twice could not be any good.
Good horses can be suited to slow ground only.

byronbay2

jimjamcos wrote: »

If he needs soft ground to show his best he ain't no superstar.

diomed wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpo

I'm sure I could make a lengthy list.

Don't forget Turtle Island, never saw such an easy Irish 2000G winner! Brilliant on soft ground, not so good on better ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnkXifpLV7k