Court Summons for no insurance.. clerical error?

Kate2293

Hi guys!

I was stopped by a Garda for speeding a few weeks ago. I didn't have my licence on my at the time and was asked to produce it at a local Garda station. I did this, received my fine in the post, paid it, and got my penalty point notification.

Roll onto Friday and I get a court summons though the door for driving with no insurance. I have never driven with no insurance and have a valid disk on my car. I double checked everything and defiantly had insurance.

I've never been in a situation like this before... just wondering if something similar has happened to anyone here and how do I proceed??

Thanking you!! :P

I love Sean nos

It's Garda incompetence, so yes, it has happened before. Bring your insurance cert, not just your disc, to the local station and see if anything can be done.

I'm waiting for a speeding notice through the door myself and I fully expect the same nonsense to follow.

Really Interested

Kate2293 wrote: »

Hi guys!

I was stopped by a Garda for speeding a few weeks ago. I didn't have my licence on my at the time and was asked to produce it at a local Garda station. I did this, received my fine in the post, paid it, and got my penalty point notification.

Roll onto Friday and I get a court summons though the door for driving with no insurance. I have never driven with no insurance and have a valid disk on my car. I double checked everything and defiantly had insurance.

I've never been in a situation like this before... just wondering if something similar has happened to anyone here and how do I proceed??

Thanking you!! :P

You turn up on the day bring your certificate that covers the date in question and make sure it's the original certificate.

On the day go up to any Garda and ask for the Garda named on the summons. Go up to Garda show him the Summons and insurance certificate.

Then wait till case is called the Garda should say to the judge that insurance has been shown and the matter can be struck out. Wait for judge to say struck out. Then leave.

punisher5112

Go into station and ask to see seargent.

Get all names and that who you speak to.

Its really poor from their end and these things shouldn't happen.

coylemj

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go into station and ask to see seargent.

Get all names and that who you speak to.

Its really poor from their end and these things shouldn't happen.

That will achieve nothing because the summons has been served and the case will be called in court, the sergeant can do nothing.

Poster Really_Interested has outlined precisely (two posts up) what the OP needs to do and note that any family member or friend that can spare the time to go to the court can do it, it happens all the time.

punisher5112

coylemj wrote: »

That will achieve nothing because the summons has been served and the case will be called in court, the sergeant can do nothing.

Poster Really_Interested has outlined precisely (two posts up) what the OP needs to do and note that any family member or friend that can spare the time to go to the court can do it, it happens all the time.

They can pull summons though.

Discodog

Can you seek compensation for you distress, false accusation, attendance at Court etc ?

I would report it to the Ombudsman because it could have very serious consequences if the Gardai are just inventing offenses. What if you had been away & didn't get the notification ?

endacl

Discodog wrote: »

Can you seek compensation for you distress, false accusation, attendance at Court etc ?

petes

coylemj wrote: »

That will achieve nothing because the summons has been served and the case will be called in court, the sergeant can do nothing.

Poster Really_Interested has outlined precisely (two posts up) what the OP needs to do and note that any family member or friend that can spare the time to go to the court can do it, it happens all the time.

So more incompetence goes unnoticed?

Discodog

endacl wrote: »

I think that it is extremely serious if the Gardai can just invent offences.

Discodog

petes wrote: »

So more incompetence goes unnoticed?

Incompetence or deliberate ?

delboythedub

No wonder they have not got the MANPOWER when you need them

Big C

More Garda bashing, You didn't have ur licence with you, thats an offence. You were more than likely asked to produce ur documents, did u produce your insurance ? if not thats why u are where u are now.

Discodog

Big C wrote: »

More Garda bashing, You didn't have ur licence with you, thats an offence. You were more than likely asked to produce ur documents, did u produce your insurance ? if not thats why u are where u are now.

Surely, if you are right, the Guard viewing the licence would of asked for the insurance certificate?

Complaints about Garda bashing is one of the reasons why the Guards are in such a mess

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Big C

Discodog wrote: »

Surely, if you are right, the Guard viewing the licence would of asked for the insurance certificate?

Complaints about Garda bashing is one of the reasons why the Guards are in such a mess

Don't know, unlike a few comments here, I wasn't their.

august12

How would one know if it was withdrawn, family member has a summons for mid July, date of offence was mid 2015, date of court summons is Dec. 2016 served about two months ago, the back of summons isn't signed, is it a valid summons and what's the procedure in court.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

slavetothegrind

Really Interested wrote: »

You turn up on the day bring your certificate that covers the date in question and make sure it's the original certificate.

On the day go up to any Garda and ask for the Garda named on the summons. Go up to Garda show him the Summons and insurance certificate.

Then wait till case is called the Garda should say to the judge that insurance has been shown and the matter can be struck out. Wait for judge to say struck out. Then leave.

Do not do this. Get representation. I did this and ended up with a conviction despite proving my innocence to the Garda.
Get a solicitor.

Really Interested

slavetothegrind wrote: »

Do not do this. Get representation. I did this and ended up with a conviction despite proving my innocence to the Garda.
Get a solicitor.

You produced a certificate in court covering the date of offence and the judge convicted you?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Really Interested

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It sounds like he didn't defend himself when the case was called.

Showing docs before court is a waste of time.

Read what I said, show documents to Garda before court and then wait till matter is called and hear the judge say struck out.

It is normal to present documents to Garda before court case is called as it speeds the matter up and can dealt with at call over and the person does not have to waste time going through the list a second time.

slavetothegrind

I couldn't defend myself. Case called . i stand up in my suited best ready to go. Garda called . He tells judge something i can't hear, gavel down fine and conviction!
No chance at all.
I did not get a second to defend myself. Lesson learned, get a pro.

Hopefully never need to again.....

emo72

slavetothegrind wrote: »

I couldn't defend myself. Case called . i stand up in my suited best ready to go. Garda called . He tells judge something i can't hear, gavel down fine and conviction!
No chance at all.
I did not get a second to defend myself. Lesson learned, get a pro.

Hopefully never need to again.....

What absolute bastards. That is hard to swallow.

Really Interested

slavetothegrind wrote: »

I couldn't defend myself. Case called . i stand up in my suited best ready to go. Garda called . He tells judge something i can't hear, gavel down fine and conviction!
No chance at all.
I did not get a second to defend myself. Lesson learned, get a pro.

Hopefully never need to again.....

So unlike my advice you did not go to Garda before case? You did not agree with Garda that the cert covered offence date? You did not agree that matter would be struck out? And you did not wait around to hear Judge say struck out?

You turned up and said nothing which is not what I advised the OP to do.

Did you say to the judge sorry I did not hear? Did you go to the court office and ask about appeal.

august12

Fred Swanson wrote:

If they applied for the summons within 6 months it is valid. You need to check the date of the complaint.

Fred Swanson wrote:

If they applied for the summons within 6 months it is valid. You need to check the date of the complaint.

Date of offence is July 2015, date of court summons is Dec. 2016, this is date at bottom left of summons, this seems to be the summons application date as date delivered by Garda was 2 months ago, on delivery he did say not to worry about it, this seems to indicate it is not valid, nothing on the back of summons has been completed which seems odd.

Really Interested

august12 wrote: »

Date of offence is July 2015, date of court summons is Dec. 2016, this is date at bottom left of summons, this seems to be the summons application date as date delivered by Garda was 2 months ago, on delivery he did say not to worry about it, this seems to indicate it is not valid, nothing on the back of summons has been completed which seems odd.

it does not matter when the Summons was issued what matters is the date it was applied for which will be in the body of the Summons.

_Brian

What I love is that everyone was delighted that new enterants into Garda had salary slashed to something embarrassing like €24k.

And now people are complaining about Garda incompetence.

Offering nothing but basement salaries attracts nothing but basement people to tie job.

Demeaning the job by paying peanuts has an effect, compound that by appointing and supporting the most vile people at the head of the force it's easy to see why guards wouldn't give a flying ****.

I expect there was an error and it was recorded that op was to show insurance and didn't.
Or, op was asked to show insurance and made a mistake and didn't show it.

august12

Really Interested wrote:

it does not matter when the Summons was issued what matters is the date it was applied for which will be in the body of the Summons.

Oh thanks, that means it's invalid, does one still have to appear in court and is it advisable to have legal representation.

Really Interested

august12 wrote: »

Oh thanks, that means it's invalid, does one still have to appear in court and is it advisable to have legal representation.

The person would be best advised turning up to inform the court what date does the Summons say it was applied for, often they are unserved and reissued but the application date remains the same.

GM228

august12 wrote: »

Oh thanks, that means it's invalid, does one still have to appear in court and is it advisable to have legal representation.

Even when the date of application is outside the 6 months you must still attend court and raise the matter as an invalid date does not remove jurisdiction from the court to hear the charge.

august12

GM228 wrote:

Even when the date of application is outside the 6 months you must still attend court and raise the matter as an invalid date does not remove jurisdiction from the court to hear the charge.

Can this be done without legal representation?

Kate2293

It wasn't my intention to have this become a Garda bashing thread! I have no issue with the Gardaí. I have never been in a situation like this before and realise it was a genuine mistake on their part, sh1t happens! All I was hoping was to find out is if anyone knew if it could be resolved before going to court.

Kate2293

Big C wrote: »

More Garda bashing, You didn't have ur licence with you, thats an offence. You were more than likely asked to produce ur documents, did u produce your insurance ? if not thats why u are where u are now.

It wasn't my intention to have this become a Garda bashing thread! I have no issue with the Gardaí. I have never been in a situation like this before and realise it was a genuine mistake on their part, sh1t happens! All I was hoping was to find out is if anyone knew if it could be resolved before going to court.

jimmycrackcorm

_Brian wrote:

Mod ; Garda bashing deleted

GM228

august12 wrote: »

Can this be done without legal representation?

Of course, you simply raise the matter as a defence.

slavetothegrind

Really Interested wrote: »

So unlike my advice you did not go to Garda before case? You did not agree with Garda that the cert covered offence date? You did not agree that matter would be struck out? And you did not wait around to hear Judge say struck out?

You turned up and said nothing which is not what I advised the OP to do.

Did you say to the judge sorry I did not hear? Did you go to the court office and ask about appeal.

1. i did indeed talk to the Garda before hand and furnished him with evidence that i was insured on the date and time in question.

2. He accepted the proof.

3. he said he would tell the judge once called there was no mention of striking out, doesn't the judge do that?

4. Shouting at a judge uninvited seemed ill advised. I was not even called on or addressed, he didn't even check i was there, it was all over in less than a minute.

I was out of my comfort zone big time and could i have done better? yes.

I think it's an overwhelming experience if one has never been in that situation.

That is why i would advise the op to get help.

Really Interested

slavetothegrind wrote: »

1. i did indeed talk to the Garda before hand and furnished him with evidence that i was insured on the date and time in question.

2. He accepted the proof.

3. he said he would tell the judge once called there was no mention of striking out, doesn't the judge do that?

4. Shouting at a judge uninvited seemed ill advised. I was not even called on or addressed, he didn't even check i was there, it was all over in less than a minute.

I was out of my comfort zone big time and could i have done better? yes.

I think it's an overwhelming experience if one has never been in that situation.

That is why i would advise the op to get help.

For a member of AGS to do what happened is very serious, I will assume it was an error. But yes a solicitor would have know what to do.

It's not a problem to shout at the judge just to say you are in court. How did you get the matter sorted. I really can not stress enough that the Garda was out of order.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Really Interested

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It sounds like he took the hit and accepted the conviction.

For no insurance? A serious hit to take as a second conviction is mandatory ban, also it's a serious conviction in relation to ongoing renewal as a conviction for no insurance can lead to insurance renewal increased premium.

Also if something like this happened today it would result in a ban unles there is a good reason not to on a first conviction.

I am very surprised any person would take a conviction for a serious matter when they are not guilty.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

hullaballoo

Is there a limitation on such an appeal? I would be appealing now if not.

punisher5112

hullaballoo wrote: »

Is there a limitation on such an appeal? I would be appealing now if not.

How long ago and seriously why would you accept. You could go to the registrars and or garda seargent in court..

I wouldn't be leaving till it was dealt with and fixed.

In my experience judges are hit and miss and also in a lot of cases prefer if you have a legal

Mod deletion

much prefer to talk to them then the ordinary person.