Never finished my Computer Eng degree...

Divelment

Hi folks,

Hoping to get some advice on here. I studied at NUI Maynooth back in 2002/2003, started a 4 year degree in Computer Engineering. Got through first year and for reasons that I HUGELY regret, I had other stuff going on in my life that caused me to seriously mess up my labwork in 2nd year. This caused me to fail the year and drop out of the course.

The course involved studying C for year one and C++ in year two. In hindsight I signed up for the wrong course as I found that I loved software engineering but I had also signed up to a lot of electronic engineering and really heavy maths that I struggled with. I'm kicking myself because if I had gotten into 3rd year, I could have picked software subjects and continued with the degree.

Back in 2002/2003, smartphones didn't exist and mobile technology wasn't even in its infancy. Although I dropped out of Maynooth in 2003/2004, my interest in software continued and even before I started the above course, I was knocking together websites using HTML and CSS. As mobile technology developed, I got more into it and picked up .NET and C#, starting off with Webforms and then I picked up MVC when that emerged. I'm by no means an expert but I have developed several websites and still manage these, these are small business websites, that take online payments and in some cases, there is transaction data stored and a fair bit of back end functionality going on, which I have developed. So I've a good working knowledge of MVC, C#, MS SQL, HTML, CSS, and also can implement jquery mobile, Bootstrap, Realex redirect payment acquisition, AJAX, etc.

My dilemma today is that the industry that I am currently employed in, (I'm self employed) is going through a lot of change and I don't see a career in it for the future, in fact I don't even like the industry or the job, whereas I LOVE building websites, meeting clients, developing solutions around what they require and I've had no problem working through the cycle from first meeting to completion and getting paid for the work I've done. I've more or less decided that the future for me is probably in developing software, if I can transition into that industry.

The problem is that I don't have any certification/qualification in this area, and I don't think going back to finish my degree in Maynooth is an option, I'd be lucky to get a first year exemption, which would mean 3 more years of study and I've to work and pay bills these days and going back to college full time I don't think is an option for me, between 3rd level fees and just having to pay bills, etc.

I have a business degree and a trade qualification, so I have something on my CV in terms of 3rd level, but the area I want to work in, I have no qualification in.

Any advice on my dilemma would be greatly appreciated. I know I should probably be posting this in Personal Issues but I reckon it would just be moved over to here!

pauliebdub

If you have loads of experience and have a portfolio of work that you can show potential employers then you shouldn't need a degree.

I have two degrees a BComm and an IT degree and I'm never asked about either at an interview it's all about my experience and what I've done.

If you really want a qualification DIT and NCI both offer part time degrees. You may be granted exemptions as you've partially completed a course already.

doc22

Try a higher diploma in computing through springboard, If you already have a degree another full time undergrad would be pointless in my opinion.

AndreWebDev

Degrees are becoming less important. There not irrelevant, but less important.

If you have a portfolio of work, or experience in a company, that is worth much more than a degree. Degrees really help you get your first job. Or get you past HR. (Which is ridiculous. Companies would miss out on fantastic candidates due to the lack of a degree).

If you really want one, go do a part time course in NCI, or DIT.

Divelment

Thanks so much for the replies folks...

boreder

For what it's worth - I did pretty much the same thing. Dropped out after year one (also in NUIM).

I fell on my feet getting a sales job in a multi-national, then moved into a project team and eventually on to a development team. Transferred over to San Francisco a couple of years ago and work with people now that are hundreds of thousands in debt after doing a masters in a fancy school. The lack of degree hasn't held me back too much – I imagine there might be an extra few $k on my salary if I had one, but who knows.

Divelment

boreder wrote: »

For what it's worth - I did pretty much the same thing. Dropped out after year one (also in NUIM).

I fell on my feet getting a sales job in a multi-national, then moved into a project team and eventually on to a development team. Transferred over to San Francisco a couple of years ago and work with people now that are hundreds of thousands in debt after doing a masters in a fancy school. The lack of degree hasn't held me back too much – I imagine there might be an extra few $k on my salary if I had one, but who knows.

NUI Maynooth lol, easy to get into, hard to get out of! :D:D

14ned

AndreWebDev wrote: »

Degrees are becoming less important. There not irrelevant, but less important.

If you have a portfolio of work, or experience in a company, that is worth much more than a degree. Degrees really help you get your first job. Or get you past HR. (Which is ridiculous. Companies would miss out on fantastic candidates due to the lack of a degree).

If you really want one, go do a part time course in NCI, or DIT.

Back when the tech bubble burst in 2001, the first people to be fired - irrespective of ability or contribution - were those without honours degrees, and indeed, often those without top honours degrees from an ancient or red brick university.

It may not matter so much right now as the bubble inflates, but lack of honours degree is a very easy filter for HR to use when firing lots of people at once. And the tech bubble will burst again.

Also, the lack of a degree does matter much more in some sectors than others. Web development it's not so important. Any role with an element of insurable reliability it's very important because otherwise their insurance won't cover them. There are also cultural differences e.g. in C++ they still tend to look for a degree. In Python not so much so.

So I still recommend that you take one part time by distance if you can. Often your employer will pay for some or all of it if you ask.

Niall

beauf

14ned wrote: »

Back when the tech bubble burst in 2001, the first people to be fired - irrespective of ability or contribution - were those without honours degrees, and indeed, often those without top honours degrees from an ancient or red brick university.
.....

I never heard of that happening to anyone I know based on lack of a degree. Rather an accountant decided what section was disbanded not HR. In one place I worked far better qualified and experienced people than I got the boot as a result. Simply because their project or section was canned.

The only time a lack of a degree is an issue in my experience is getting an interview. Sometimes a degree is a filter for interview. My primary degree is not IT related. Also sometimes you'll find you are missing some fundamentals that people with a computer science degree will have.

Less so with contracting. Many places are only interested in your last 2-3yrs of experience.

beauf

I will just add that 14ned is far higher up the food chain than I. And vastly more experienced. So his advice and experience is at higher level in the totem pole to mine.

I think we all agree though that a good degree is an asset at any level. Increasingly so. I have encountered a company that only recruit from the their own college and at 1.1 level. But only once.

14ned

beauf wrote: »

I will just add that 14ned is far higher up the food chain than I. And vastly more experienced. So his advice and experience is at higher level in the totem pole to mine.

I think we all agree though that a good degree is an asset at any level. Increasingly so. I have encountered a company that only recruit from the their own college and at 1.1 level. But only once.

I wasn't always where I am now. Back in 2000 I was far ahead of the curve in terms of seniority of position and pay for my age, but my Software Engineering degree was a bare scraping pass from Hull (I didn't attend a single lecture nor do a single piece of coursework for three years. Aced the exams though, but they were only worth a half of the degree). So not even a third class degree, and not from a top tier uni. I had been planning to enter contracting and start earning the real money, but when the bubble popped I was suddenly not only unemployed, but unemployable.

Time and time again when talking to recruiters they'd sneer at my work experience and tell me that anyone without at least a 2.1 from a Russell group uni was worthless. It was quite dispiriting.

I remember distinctly when the bottom point arrived: after five months of sleeping on couches in London in a phone booth off London Bridge awaiting phone calls from a recruiter who was having me and some other fellow bid each other's pay down for a night time only 10pm - 6am job in the middle of the city tending to ancient Honeywell mainframe code. I went as low as £14,500 salary. The other guy went to £14,000. It was at that moment I decided that returning home and moving back in with my parents was actually better than surviving in central London like that. So I went back to uni to retrain into becoming a banker this time gaining a 2.1 from a very ancient university, graduating with perfect timing in 2008.

I think different companies and segments handled the downsizing in 2001-2002 differently depending on urgency. Some were told to fire X% of the workforce, so HR found a legally safe way of doing so (insufficient qualifications is always safe). Some were told to axe certain departments only. It depends. Either way, I found getting hired in the middle of the bubble popping for any reasonable pay or conditions impossible. I ended up landscaping actually, living from home, found it much more pleasant - you actually end up with a sense of having achieved something at work unlike pretty much ever in IT.

But anyway, I'd advise get that degree if you can afford it and don't have it yet. I don't know what will happen next time the tech bubble pops, but better safe than sorry, being left out to swing in the wind is fine when you're single, but it's a nightmare when you have a mortgage and children. From the friends I witnessed during the 2009 onwards crash, about half the time you end up with no house, no family and up to your ears in debt. Scary.

Niall

dazberry

Similar to the OP I never finished my computing degree back in the 90s - I got a little further in that I got to 3rd year work placement - but exam wise 3rd year was a disaster - precipitate by health issues that turned out in the end to be a food intolerance. Ultimately I didn't have the option to go back for 4th year at that point - so I started on work placement and with that momentum managed to keep going.

For various reasons I went back in 2011 and 2013 to finish off an undergraduate CS degree. In hindsight I have mixed feelings about completing it. It took a lot of effort (and money) to complete - and I honestly can't help but feel that at that point in my career the effort could have been better spent elsewhere. I don't regret doing it - and education is never wasted, but I think if I had the choice again I'd probably not take on the degree.

Having said all that I can sort of see a causality and effect echo throughout my career, it intriguing to think how it's all related - perhaps finishing the degree was one of the better choices after all?

D.

Divelment

OP here... I crucify myself with regrets at times over not finishing my degree because I was pretty much on top of everything in terms of the studying and grasping the academic side of things, but the missed labwork ended up being probably one of the worst fúck up I've ever managed to make. I can't see myself going back to finish that particular course if I'm being honest but I would love to have a degree or some sort of useful certification on the software eng side of things.

I'm in the middle of a major career change, leaving the motor industry to hopefully get into a junior software dev role. I've also decided to move out of Dublin as the housing situation is just gone beyond a píss take at this stage, so I've moved down to Cork and am hoping to get into a junior software eng role, I suppose having the sheet of paper would just help my confidence when it comes to an interview but I remember a lot of what I was studying in NUIM was not related at all to what I want to do now which is to develop back end web stuff in C#, build data driven websites, etc.

Luckily I'm single and no kids so I can move city if I want to and jump career paths and all I have to worry about is myself and putting a roof over my own head...

Buford T Justice

Without that piece of paper and a gap in your learning due to another career it'll be hard to get past recruiters. Even then you'd be limiting yourself to the likes of the fly-by-night crowds who pay peanuts. (I've worked for one in cork)

Divelment

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Without that piece of paper and a gap in your learning due to another career it'll be hard to get past recruiters. Even then you'd be limiting yourself to the likes of the fly-by-night crowds who pay peanuts. (I've worked for one in cork)

I'm still proficient in the area that I've been in though (.NET/C#), as my job in the motor trade was very much IT/software orientated. So its not a "gap" as much is it is a continuation. But obviously I'd be stronger as a candidate with the sheet of paper, the license to forget what you know.

Evil Phil

I've always said that a degree was important, or a degree in another field and a higher or post grad diploma and I still think it is. However, I don't work in the startup world so maybe things have changed? I don't know.

I now work for an engineering multinational and degrees are par for the course, actually most of us have masters, but were not a *young* office and an average age of about 40 I guess.