Buying house extended without planning

kpbryww

Have found a house to buy and just checked the planning permission granted and it doesn't show an attic conversion (additional bathroom and bathroom + stairs) its a bungalow. I still would like to buy the house but I don't want to have to wait months or more for the owner to submit planning. THe house was built late 70's. WHat can I do? What does the owner need to do to get the planning corrected? The modifications appear to have been changed at the time of building.

Calahonda52

You need to be crystal clear here: it may not have required planning, generally not required iff if it did not change the roof profile and not include a velux to front.
The other ? is what is the rooms being sold as , what is the ceiling height in what I suspect is a bed room

kpbryww

Full head height room and bathroom in attic = 8ft+ headroom.
Two full size windows in gable on each end of roof( not in original planning). roof profile has not changed from original drawing.

Calahonda52

owner needs to apply for retention for windows: c 3 months
what do other houses in estate look like.
is the 8 feet mid way(normal for converted dormer) or over the full width/length?
trying to see did he stroke anything else in!

Planning is one thing, compliance with building regs is another separate issue which you need to concern yourself with

kpbryww

Thanks for your input.

the other houses in the estate are a mix of dormer bungalows and 2 storey houses.

The head height is 8 feet in the middle not the full width.

I have arranged for a structural engineer to visit to check if everything meets regs if all is good I might arrange check with the planning dept what the odds are of passing planning before I decide to commit any further.

tradesman

My parents bought a bungalow in 1993 without a mortgage. After both parents died I subsequently purchased the bungalow. Turns out the house did not comply with initial planning permission & I had to get retention on a number of things. Entrance on the wrong side of the plot. House too far back into the plot than originally planned. Garage roof too high. Front boundary wall too close to the road. Who is at fault?

tradesman

tradesman wrote: »

My parents bought a bungalow in 1993 without a mortgage. After both parents died I subsequently purchased the bungalow. Turns out the house did not comply with initial planning permission & I had to get retention on a number of things. Entrance on the wrong side of the plot. House too far back into the plot than originally planned. Garage roof too high. Front boundary wall too close to the road. Who is at fault?

I'd have thought that the statute of limitations would have kicked in after 12 years, thus preventing the council from demanding retention permission.

kpbryww

Is there a stature of limitations relating to building retention permission? This would apply to my question also as the conversion was done close to time of build.

In which case the owner would just need to submit to the CC the details of the attic conversion and provide verification that it meets regs and compliance??

Anywhere online that I can confirm this?

I will contact CC tomorrow to check just be handy if its outlined online.


I think I found the answer on markstephensarchitects.com
Planning Myth #3 – If it's up more than 7 years you don't need planning permission
Where does this come from?

The Planning and Development Act 2000 includes what is called a Statute of Limitations on enforcement orders.

This Statute of Limitations means that if you don’t have planning permission the state has a maximum of 7 years to issue enforcement from when you have started the development.

"You won’t be able to sell your property as a solicitor will be looking for the correct title on the property which includes a compliance with planning permission certificate. I was asked to do such a certificate for a property constructed in the 1970’s and it was patently clear that the property did not comply with its original planning permission. The sale was held up by the solicitor until a retention planning permission was granted; which incidentally is not a foregone conclusion."

kpbryww

kpbryww wrote: »

Is there a stature of limitations relating to building retention permission? This would apply to my question also as the conversion was done close to time of build.

In which case the owner would just need to submit to the CC the details of the attic conversion and provide verification that it meets regs and compliance??

Anywhere online that I can confirm this?

I will contact CC tomorrow to check just be handy if its outlined online.


I think I found the answer on markstephensarchitects.com
Planning Myth #3 – If it's up more than 7 years you don't need planning permission
Where does this come from?

The Planning and Development Act 2000 includes what is called a Statute of Limitations on enforcement orders.

This Statute of Limitations means that if you don’t have planning permission the state has a maximum of 7 years to issue enforcement from when you have started the development.

"You won’t be able to sell your property as a solicitor will be looking for the correct title on the property which includes a compliance with planning permission certificate. I was asked to do such a certificate for a property constructed in the 1970’s and it was patently clear that the property did not comply with its original planning permission. The sale was held up by the solicitor until a retention planning permission was granted; which incidentally is not a foregone conclusion."

There is a lot of good info here. http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2013/07/11/planning-permission-enforcement-and-the-seven-year-myth/

Angry bird

The statute of limitation means the Council cannot take enforcement proceedings. It still remains unauthorised as it does not have the benefit of planning permission. Anyone telling you otherwise is talking out if their proverbial.

kpbryww

I think there might be a hint to the answer in info link title " 7 year myth"

looksee

I am in a similar situation to some of the above. If the CC cannot take out enforcement proceedings, what is the consequence for not having planning permission? (In my case garage that should not create a serious issue but done before we bought the house nearly 30 years ago, and slightly altered about 14 years ago).

Edit, thinking about it I guess that as long as I own the property I am ok but if I wish to sell I will have to get retention?

Angry bird

looksee wrote: »

I am in a similar situation to some of the above. If the CC cannot take out enforcement proceedings, what is the consequence for not having planning permission? (In my case garage that should not create a serious issue but done before we bought the house nearly 30 years ago, and slightly altered about 14 years ago).

Edit, thinking about it I guess that as long as I own the property I am ok but if I wish to sell I will have to get retention?

Yes when selling will have to get retention permission

tradesman

tradesman wrote: »

My parents bought a bungalow in 1993 without a mortgage. After both parents died I subsequently purchased the bungalow. Turns out the house did not comply with initial planning permission & I had to get retention on a number of things. Entrance on the wrong side of the plot. House too far back into the plot than originally planned. Garage roof too high. Front boundary wall too close to the road. Who is at fault?

What I am asking is have I recourse to my parents solicitors as they did not carry out their duties by checking the property complied with the planning? Why should I have to fork out approx. €2500 to get planning that the original sellers should have had in place & my parent solicitors should have made sure that the title was correct?

Metric Tensor

looksee wrote: »

Edit, thinking about it I guess that as long as I own the property I am ok but if I wish to sell I will have to get retention?

It could also cause problems for your children if they inherit the house from you.

Angry bird

tradesman wrote: »

tradesman wrote: »

My parents bought a bungalow in 1993 without a mortgage. After both parents died I subsequently purchased the bungalow. Turns out the house did not comply with initial planning permission & I had to get retention on a number of things. Entrance on the wrong side of the plot. House too far back into the plot than originally planned. Garage roof too high. Front boundary wall too close to the road. Who is at fault?

What I am asking is have I recourse to my parents solicitors as they did not carry out their duties by checking the property complied with the planning? Why should I have to fork out approx. €2500 to get planning that the original sellers should have had in place & my parent solicitors should have made sure that the title was correct?

There's a long line where that came from and a long wait. If you're serious, get legal advice.

Poor Uncle Tom

tradesman wrote: »

What I am asking is have I recourse to my parents solicitors as they did not carry out their duties by checking the property complied with the planning? Why should I have to fork out approx. €2500 to get planning that the original sellers should have had in place & my parent solicitors should have made sure that the title was correct?

It really depends on the circumstances:

Were your parents advised to have a planning and building regulations survey carried out? Was it decided not to do it to save costs? Was there a COC with the house to begin with?

You could always ask the solicitor involved about these issues?

tradesman

They just went to the solicitor, said want to buy this house. Surely solicitor should have checked these things when undertaking the conveyancing?

Gumbo

tradesman wrote: »

What I am asking is have I recourse to my parents solicitors as they did not carry out their duties by checking the property complied with the planning? Why should I have to fork out approx. €2500 to get planning that the original sellers should have had in place & my parent solicitors should have made sure that the title was correct?

tradesman wrote: »

They just went to the solicitor, said want to buy this house. Surely solicitor should have checked these things when undertaking the conveyancing?

It's not up to the solicitor to determine that the house is in compliance with planning regulations.
The buyer engages a surveyor to carry out an inspection of the property. Any irregularities found during his inspection is mentioned in the report which is passed to your solicitior who then asks the sellers solicitor to send on confirmation. The sellers solicitor then chases it through the vendor.

So no, in my opinion the solicitor cannot be chased here unless you provided a surveyors report which highlighted the planning or other irregularities.