How many Christians have had personal experiences Of God

Terrlock

We read a lot of threads discussing on proving God's existence.

People discuss scientific evidence of God all the time.

However I didn't come to know God through science I came to know him through spiritual encounters of him and his Holy spirit and experienced of him working in my life.

This question is intended for Christians and if there is a thread already in the forum discussing this then that's fine.

I am curious to know how many Christians out there believe the have had personal supernatural experience(s) or otherwise that shows them without a shadow of a doubt that God is real and if your willing to share some of those experiences.

hinault

Terrlock wrote: »

We read a lot of threads discussing on proving God's existence.

People discuss scientific evidence of God all the time.

However I didn't come to know God through science I came to know him through spiritual encounters of him and his Holy spirit and experienced of him working in my life.

This question is intended for Christians and if there is a thread already in the forum discussing this then that's fine.

I am curious to know how many Christians out there believe the have had personal supernatural experience(s) or otherwise that shows them without a shadow of a doubt that God is real and if your willing to share some of those experiences.

Interesting.

Are your prepared to share here what these experiences included?

Comte de Mirabeau

Loads, but the non physical can't never be described adequately in physical terms or words, and can only be accessed by praying from the heart. Describing it would be something like trying to convince deaf people about the astounding beauty of music / birdsong etc . . you're just going to end up getting them riled.

Jellybaby1

Terrlock wrote: »

.....I am curious to know how many Christians out there believe the have had personal supernatural experience(s) or otherwise that shows them without a shadow of a doubt that God is real and if your willing to share some of those experiences.

I feel I would be letting my Saviour down if I don't at least reply. I had an experience about thirty years ago which proved to me without a shadow of a doubt that God exists. Since that day I have never felt alone, ever. I didn't enter the church or become a teacher or preacher because God did not call me to be such. If he had, he would have made that crystal clear. I dislike the phrase 'I believe that God wants me to.....' because if God wants you to do something you will know it and its not something you 'believe' you should do, but something you have to do and you have no control over it. God does not muck about!

shel64

Yes I have, and will give my full testimony in a private setting or small group, but not on this forum, having read some of the threads I feel I would just be ridiculed and you have to have wisdom, this forum has more than its fair share of mockers, and I would add I totally believe in the power of prayer and all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I was brought up catholic as my mother was one and am thankful for the bible teaching I had from the gospels in school, I had a belief but not a personal experience and drifted away, became agnostic, till I entered an Anglican church for a carol service and felt drawn to come back,I was saved and thank God he never gave up on me, I now have no denomination, I am a Christian, and will go into any church that believes in the Holy Trinity, and feel at home, I am not allowed to take the Eucharist as I married out of the church but then my belief has changed,I have a very simple faith, I take bread in remembrance of Jesus who died on the cross for me in any fellowship/church I visit, I now worship in a methodist church

antiskeptic

Comte de Mirabeau wrote: »

Loads, but the non physical can't never be described adequately in physical terms or words, and can only be accessed by praying from the heart. Describing it would be something like trying to convince deaf people about the astounding beauty of music / birdsong etc . . you're just going to end up getting them riled.

Even if you do recount the physical, it can be easily discounted. And ought to be so: God isn't and oughtn't be provable by man to man. God proves his existence to man.

I recall detailing a describable event(s) to an atheist mathematician. It involved my running out of petrol 7 time on my motorbike - and rolling up, engine dead, onto a petrol forecourt each time. I gave him all the info he asked for: distances to petrol stations, how far I'd freewheel from first engine stutter to rolling to a halt, number of petrol stations on the route, capacity of the tank, etc. He calculated the odcs on a par with my winning the lotto a couple of times in a row. And concluded there must be something else in the physical/psychological world to explain my luck and that divine intervention need to be included in the mix.

I wasn't taking it as a proof of God and I wasn't blown away by his ability and I wasn't interested in how he did it. I already knew God existed. Rather, the intent behind the action is what was important to me: tenderness, humour, class, letting me know he was concerned with the detail of my life - even if he wasn't going to intervene to smooth the path at every turn.

NinetyTwoTeam

antiskeptic wrote: »

Even if you do recount the physical, it can be easily discounted. And ought to be so: God isn't and oughtn't be provable by man to man. God proves his existence to man.

I recall detailing a describable event(s) to an atheist mathematician. It involved my running out of petrol 7 time on my motorbike - and rolling up, engine dead, onto a petrol forecourt each time. I gave him all the info he asked for: distances to petrol stations, how far I'd freewheel from first engine stutter to rolling to a halt, number of petrol stations on the route, capacity of the tank, etc. He calculated the odcs on a par with my winning the lotto a couple of times in a row. And concluded there must be something else in the physical/psychological world to explain my luck and that divine intervention need to be included in the mix.

I wasn't taking it as a proof of God and I wasn't blown away by his ability and I wasn't interested in how he did it. I already knew God existed. Rather, the intent behind the action is what was important to me: tenderness, humour, class, letting me know he was concerned with the detail of my life - even if he wasn't going to intervene to smooth the path at every turn.

So God made sure you didn't run out of petrol on your motorbike, but he was fine with the Holocaust, didn't intervene for 9/11, allows children to end up in the hands of serial abusers/murderers, etc.

Some strange priorities that God fella has IMO.

Brian?

I won't argue the existence of God, but can I ask a question?

If you are a true believer in a divine creator, do you need confirmation? Isn't existence itself all the proof you need?

I'm asking because the majority of people I encounter who are believers have had some some of personal experience that confirmed their belief. In fact I'd say all of them have, but I'd need to survey them again.

As a non believer, I actually envy believers. It must be wonderful to have that level of certainty about the nature of existence. As a non believer, I lurch from one existential question to the next.

Follow up question, if I may? How do you reconcile your own personal experiences, which must be positive, with the abject misery that exists all over the world? It would actually make me angry if I believed in divine intervention and I saw a complete lack of intervention in horrible circumstances.

I promise not to nit pick and argue my own view point on the answers. But I am very interested in the answers. I struggle to understand faith and it leaves me bamboozled in personal interactions at times.

homer911

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

So God made sure you didn't run out of petrol on your motorbike, but he was fine with the Holocaust, didn't intervene for 9/11, allows children to end up in the hands of serial abusers/murderers, etc.

Some strange priorities that God fella has IMO.

I have had many encounters with God which to me prove his existence and this response is precisely the reason why I am not posting them here - Matthew 7:6

antiskeptic

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

So God made sure you didn't run out of petrol on your motorbike, but he was fine with the Holocaust, didn't intervene for 9/11, allows children to end up in the hands of serial abusers/murderers, etc.

Some strange priorities that God fella has IMO.

You mean to say, the god-of-your-own-making would be a heaven-on-earth-now sort of God?

Kind of misses the point earth has, given you'd want to fast forward to the new earth intended by God. In that new, recreated earth, only righteousness will dwell (a.k.a. no abusers abuse, Holocaust, etc)

antiskeptic

homer911 wrote: »

I have had many encounters with God which to me prove his existence and this response is precisely the reason why I am not posting them here - Matthew 7:6

The OP didn't strike me as an oink?

NinetyTwoTeam

antiskeptic wrote: »

You mean to say, the god-of-your-own-making would be a heaven-on-earth-now sort of God?

Kind of misses the point earth has, given you'd want to fast forward to the new earth intended by God. In that new, recreated earth, only righteousness will dwell (a.k.a. no abusers abuse, Holocaust, etc)

No, that's exactly my point. If God exists he isn't intervening in matters of petrol tanks, or much graver matters. I'm not saying someone can't have a spiritual experience thingy but not every stroke of good luck qualifies.

antiskeptic

Brian? wrote: »

If you are a true believer in a divine creator, do you need confirmation? Isn't existence itself all the proof you need?

From my own and many others reported experiences (as well as the biblical model) the sequence of coming to truly believe in God appears to be:

- God turns up to the person in convincing fashion.

- the person now believes God exists.

It's the same simple enough sequence we have for coming to know anything. Convincing evidence brings about firm belief/knowledge.

Without the above, you'd be left to ponder complex arguments and philosophies about our existence (whether pointing towards a creator God or a natural phenomena). None of which can prove anything anyway.

I'm asking because the majority of people I encounter who are believers have had some some of personal experience that confirmed their belief. In fact I'd say all of them have, but I'd need to survey them again.

I think people can conclude God exists based on the above philosophical arguments, people can be brought up to believe God exists, people can be touched by God such as to be closer to the idea of his existence. But unless he turns up personally in convincing fashion, I can't see how someone can be a total believer.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that.

As a non believer, I actually envy believers. It must be wonderful to have that level of certainty about the nature of existence. As a non believer, I lurch from one existential question to the next.

The first words I heard from God (not that I hear very much) were "Everything is going to be okay". By that I understood "everything" in the biggest sense. It didn't mean I wouldn't suffer, it didn't mean I wouldn't face trial. But somewhere in me, unbeknownst to me and inexpressible by me, was a concern about something big. Who am I, why am I here, where am I going perhaps. Everything regarding that was going to be okay.

That initial certainty and relief has never left me.

The other thing that struck me in those early years is that the whole world: the nature of it, the problems it's had, has and will have .. all made perfect sense. Everything is as it ought to be in a fallen, broken world. Yes, decry crooked politicians ... but it's the norm, it's to be expected from fallen people. My sister, an unbeliever, is tortured by the state of the world. She's aghast at it. How can it be so? Why on earth can these things occur. How can people be so cruel?

The believer can have peace - even as he rails at injustice. This is the way a fallen world can be expected work. There is no mystery about it. Thank God, God is working to redeem it.

Follow up question, if I may? How do you reconcile your own personal experiences, which must be positive, with the abject misery that exists all over the world? It would actually make me angry if I believed in divine intervention and I saw a complete lack of intervention in horrible circumstances.



I promise not to nit pick and argue my own view point on the answers. But I am very interested in the answers. I struggle to understand faith and it leaves me bamboozled in personal interactions at times.

This world of ours is a staging post of sorts (the Bible indicates). A precursor world. Something before the main event.

One of the central things to be achieved by God from this world is an answer from each and every person: "is your hearts desire to obtain the things of God and the things that reflect his character: joy, peace, justice, contentment, relationship, unselfishness"? We are surrounded in this world with just those kinds of things whether they come from within ourselves, from other people or from nature. Or is your hearts desire the things that are not of God and don't reflect his character: selfishness, lust, suffering, conceit, etc. We are surrounded in this world by those things too, in self, in others, in nature.

Whichever our hearts desire is*, will, God will then ensure, be granted us. It's that simple.

*By this, I don't mean a momentary expression of desire. I mean desire expressed past whatever threshold God holds to be a true, to-our-core expression of desire.

In order to be presented a fair choice, in order for our hearts to experience and to be stimulated in both directions, we require an environment that offers possibilities for our progressing and tasting the fruits of both directions. And we need a nature which can respond and desire both directions.

We have, the Bible argues clearly, a sinful nature (a propensity to desire and act to obtain that which is rotten). And we have a conscience - something which gives us a due North as to which is the right direction to go in. We constantly face the tug from both and have to suppress the one in order to act in the direction of the other.

And so a tension will be set up in us by our exposure and activity in both directions. We all know the salve of acting in the right way at the right time. How that feels. And we know the feeling doing the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons brings - even as some part of us enjoys the fruits of those labours.

It seems to me, that the horror of the world is merely something of a reflection of the size of the playing pitch we are on. A reflection of the stakes we are all playing for. Good is very good. Ill is as appalling beyond the capacity of the mind to comprehend it.

And we need to be aware of the stakes we are playing for (even if we're not fully consciously aware that we are playing for anything at all).

God is infinitely more appalled at what we do (and what the fallen nature: disease, earthquakes, storms, floods and droughts do). But not even he can render this most vital, elemental of choices without permitting a suitably equipped stage on which our choice is informed and made.

How can one chose between absolute good, beauty, joy and their opposites, if they've no exposure to that those things entail?

An so, a necessary and unavoidable evil. The serpent was let into a perfect garden. And men began to chose.

-

That's the theological position. Of course, as a human being who suffers or watches suffering, I can and have raged at God. But I tend to try to return to the above understanding as to the why it is as it is. I also recognize that the answers might not be back-of-a-cornflakes-packet simple (perhaps there is no way to construct a fully embracing theology about the problem of evil). That the unleashing of evil is not something that can be fully managed and capped by God in every detail. That he is in a battle with it too.

I remember the response my wife got from God when she asked "How could you have let that happen?" after watching a programme on TV about the Holocaust. The answer wasn't a rebuke but silenced nontheless

"Have you any idea of the weight of all that sin borne on my shoulders?"

Knowing (something of) the nature of God - in him there is no darkness at all - I trust the suffering and pain is a necessary and unavoidable consequence of this much larger task: posing and obtaining an answer to the question he sets everybody. These are the labour pains involved in something monumental beyond compare: the eternal destination of each and every one of us.

antiskeptic

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

No, that's exactly my point. If God exists he isn't intervening in matters of petrol tanks, or much graver matters. I'm not saying someone can't have a spiritual experience thingy but not every stroke of good luck qualifies.

Your point was that God was intervening in the wrong way - paying attention to petrol tanks whilst someone suffers horribly in the world at the same time. Some God that..

Now you seem to be stating that God doesn't intervene at all - which is your perogative.

Perhaps I did just have a stroke of good luck on a par with winning the lotto a few times over. However, I'm not inclined (as a believer with a reasonable (if not exhaustive as I ought to have) amount of exposure to God and his ways) to suppose good luck the case. My answer to Brian in the post above might illuminate why evil. And why, even though appalling evil in the world, God isn't prohibited from encouraging and thrilling one of his children.

It's what dad's do.

hinault

For every catholic attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist is experiencing the physical presence of God. Receiving any of the sacraments too is receiving God, once one is not in a state of mortal sin when receiving those sacraments.

For the CAtholic reception of the sacraments is being in the presence of God.

antiskeptic

hinault wrote: »

For every catholic attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist is experiencing the physical presence of God.

Does it differ in any experiential way from taking a similar piece of bread which isn't the Eucharist?

There's a difference between being told/believing the Lord is present in the Eucharist and experiencing the Lord via the Eucharist.

I'm reminded of the face of my niece and nephew (and many of their peers) at their first holy communion. The smirks and smiles led me to suppose they weren't experiencing anything of the Lord.

hinault

Heresy runs in your family apparently.

antiskeptic

hinault wrote: »

Heresy runs in your family apparently.

And the families of my family's peers it would seem. They were all there for one reason only: doing what had to be done because of RC control of education. You got all the usual guff: half going to stand, half going to their knees and standing up again - because the person in front of them was as unsure of what to do as they were.

The parents hadn't stepped inside a church outside of weddings and funerals, since they were their kids age. You can't really call them hypocrites for having to play the game for their kids.


-

Reminds me of a funny story.

At one of the said communions, the priest addressed the kids by way of preparation.

"What's this?" he asked, hold up a piece of sliced pan

"SLICED BREAD" chorused the children

"And what's this?" he asked again, holding up a piece of soda bread

"SODA BREAD" sang the children back at him

"And now, boys and girls, what's this?" holding the Eucharist aloft.

"PITTA BREAD" shouted out one task-focused and doubtlessly competitive individual, jumping the scripted gun.


-

Doubtlessly, God laughed out loud along with the rest of the congregation (or perhaps he'd heard the joke before (it happened)

hinault

Even all of that - if any of it actually happened, that is - sounds a hell of a lot more plausible than "hearing a voice saying Everything's gonna be ok":D

antiskeptic

hinault wrote: »

Even all of that - if any of it actually happened, that is - sounds a hell of a lot more plausible than "hearing a voice saying Everything's gonna be ok":D

You don't believe God speaks and people hear him? What the heck version of the Bible are you reading man?

-

At the same service you don't believe happened, I was sitting beside my mam. She'd become a Christian a few years before me and was (somewhat understandably) vocally angry - her being the outspoken sort - with the Catholic church. This, on account of the false model of God which had been beaten into her throughout her childhood. She was left handed, for example, but the nuns insisted she use her right hand for writing and the like. So she was beaten over the left hand with a stick every time she automatically went to use it. Until it was black and blue beaten. Sisters of Mercy indeed.

On the other side of me, my sisters and my Dad. Although unbelievers (even in Catholicism), they slotted into the hollow (for them) reverence demanded by the occasion, my Dad even crossing himself at the right times, fatally caught between the need for hollow reverence and the thought that we two non-game players might view him as a hypocrite.

Anyway, the priest was droning on through the script. At one point he holds up the Eucharist saying something like "This is the body and blood of Jesus"

My mam's voice wasn't that loud, but it traveled, clear as a bell, round the packed-yet-deathly-quiet church.

"No it isn't"

hinault

All the family's been infected so.

Delirium

hinault wrote: »

All the family's been infected so.

MOD NOTE

Less of the personal comments. "Attack the post, not the poster."

Also please desist with calling people heretics. Any more of that will result in a card.

Thanks for your attention.

lazybones32

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

So God made sure you didn't run out of petrol on your motorbike, but he was fine with the Holocaust, didn't intervene for 9/11, allows children to end up in the hands of serial abusers/murderers, etc.

Some strange priorities that God fella has IMO.

A woman, Anne, who i know from the local prayer group, shared a story with me the last time i met her.
She was driving home and the rain clouds were rolling in. She was asking the Lord to hold off the rain until she could get home and take the clothes off the line. It began raining heavily and the shower lasted for a few mins, ending as she got home. Yard was wet, with pools having collected in areas. Even under the clothesline was wet. She went to bring them in for the drier and found that every item of clothing was bone dry. Not a single drop of water on any item of clothes. The Lord didn't answer her prayer according to her request but showed his concern for her in another way.