Enforcement of road rules in Limerick CC- who's responsible?

John_Mc

I've to drive through the city 3-4 times a day and have no option, thanks to the one way system, but to drive up William street.

It's infuriating the way people park anywhere they like in the middle of the road and stick the hazards on, thinking that's ok.

Who's responsible for enforcing this most basic of traffic laws? Is it the Gardai or traffic wardens or both? I want to make a complaint. Not that it will do anything but it's all I can do

Exeggcute

I saw a car double parked with hazards on yesterday outside Ulster bank on O'Connell Street. Blocking the whole lane.

The Garda Traffic Core in front of me drove past slowly and didn't even look, let alone stop.

Nobody cares.

John_Mc

It's all over the city. People walking out in front of moving traffic etc. It's crazy!

Mc Love

Cyclists using footpaths, its just the irish way, park where you like when you want.

Jofspring

I have to say I don't blame cyclists at all from using footpaths in Limerick.

Coill1

Not that bothered about cyclists on footpaths- grinds my gears (pardon the pun) when they use pedestrian crossings, not bothering to dismount - I almost hit a young lady who just cycled out in front of me one evening recently (rant over!)
BTW I cycle myself..

source

To answer op's question both AGS and the traffic warden have responsibility for policing this. AGS however is stretched to the limit so will generally leave something like this to the traffic wardens (whose sole job it is) to deal with.

Anyway the problem isn't enforcement, it's a societal one. It's deemed to be socially acceptable to park on double yellows or to double park in limerick.

I myself am a former member of AGS and I can tell you on quiet days in Limerick I often spent hours clearing illegally parked cars from William street, the issue was people could see you standing there giving a ticket to someone and would just pull in themselves, it was ridiculous.

A serious change is needed alright, the attitude of motorists who illegally park in our city needs to change for this problem to solved.

bazz26

Maybe the punishment just isn't good enough to help be a deterrent. They do it because they know the penalty is low. Normally the best way to get through to lazy ignorant motorists is by taking their money off them. Maybe issue higher fines/court summonses in these zones by using CCTV to identify the registration plates of illegal parkers.

John_Mc

source wrote: »

Anyway the problem isn't enforcement, it's a societal one. It's deemed to be socially acceptable to park on double yellows or to double park in limerick.

I myself am a former member of AGS and I can tell you on quiet days in Limerick I often spent hours clearing illegally parked cars from William street, the issue was people could see you standing there giving a ticket to someone and would just pull in themselves, it was ridiculous.

A serious change is needed alright, the attitude of motorists who illegally park in our city needs to change for this problem to solved.

Yeah I totally agree that it's about attitude. That won't change unless there's enforcement though. People will continue to park where they like until there's a consequence.

bazz26 wrote: »

Maybe the punishment just isn't good enough to help be a deterrent. They do it because they know the penalty is low. Normally the best way to get through to lazy ignorant motorists is by taking their money off them. Maybe issue higher fines/court summonses in these zones by using CCTV to identify the registration plates of illegal parkers.

CCTV is a great idea. I don't even think we need to change the penalty, as €40 or whatever it is is enough to make people abide by the rules. We just need enforcement.

Is it the council that employs the wardens? If it is then I'm going to submit a complaint about it, would be good if others would do it as well.

bazz26

Traffic Management section of the Council I'd imagine. Maybe start with the contact details here but as with most Public Services expect to be either fobbed off or passed around from pillar to post:

https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/roads-and-travel/traffic-and-parking/pay-or-appeal-parking-fine

John_Mc

Saw the Gardai issuing a ticket for some clown parked in one of the lanes on William st today. Was great to see!

If they sustained it for a few days then the message would get through that you can't park wherever you like

dr.fuzzenstein

I'm back in Germany now and it has to be said it's totally different.
Generally people respect parking restrictions and that is with even less enforcement. You hardly see the Polizei or Traffic Wardens, but you will also hardly see cars parked badly, or even abandoned willy nilly, all over the place.
It really is a cultural thing. If you tackled someone in Limerick over bad parking, they would either laugh it off, or get aggressive.
And it's all-pervasive and it starts with mass parking (bad), funeral parking (worse) and match parking (make a point of parking like the biggest arsehole).
Then it goes on to "I'll only be a minute!" parking and, of course, "on private property the law doesn't mean sh*t!" parking, which is almost the worst, because there you can just abandon your car, the lines or signs don't mean anything.
For me it's about respect for others. The approach to rules seems to be different. In Germany it's "The rules are there so we can all get along and everyone knows what their rights and obligations are". In Ireland it seems to be "Fcuk that, I'm not being bossed around, I'll just dump my car here, anyone has a problem with that, I'll just tell him to fcuk off"

jsd1004

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm back in Germany now and it has to be said it's totally different.
Generally people respect parking restrictions and that is with even less enforcement. You hardly see the Polizei or Traffic Wardens, but you will also hardly see cars parked badly, or even abandoned willy nilly, all over the place.
It really is a cultural thing. If you tackled someone in Limerick over bad parking, they would either laugh it off, or get aggressive.
And it's all-pervasive and it starts with mass parking (bad), funeral parking (worse) and match parking (make a point of parking like the biggest arsehole).
Then it goes on to "I'll only be a minute!" parking and, of course, "on private property the law doesn't mean sh*t!" parking, which is almost the worst, because there you can just abandon your car, the lines or signs don't mean anything.
For me it's about respect for others. The approach to rules seems to be different. In Germany it's "The rules are there so we can all get along and everyone knows what their rights and obligations are". In Ireland it seems to be "Fcuk that, I'm not being bossed around, I'll just dump my car here, anyone has a problem with that, I'll just tell him to fcuk off"

I live in Spain. Its a 200 euro fine if you encroach on a footpath. That sorts it out fairly quickly. As in if you are on it you get the fine. Does not matter if you are in the car or out.

chicorytip

John_Mc wrote:

Saw the Gardai issuing a ticket for some clown parked in one of the lanes on William st today. Was great to see!

John_Mc wrote:

If they sustained it for a few days then the message would get through that you can't park wherever you like

Would Mayorstone Gardai please deal in a similar manner with those who park dangerously on Shelbourne Road opposite the park entrance?

John_Mc

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm back in Germany now and it has to be said it's totally different.
Generally people respect parking restrictions and that is with even less enforcement. You hardly see the Polizei or Traffic Wardens, but you will also hardly see cars parked badly, or even abandoned willy nilly, all over the place.
It really is a cultural thing. If you tackled someone in Limerick over bad parking, they would either laugh it off, or get aggressive.
And it's all-pervasive and it starts with mass parking (bad), funeral parking (worse) and match parking (make a point of parking like the biggest arsehole).
Then it goes on to "I'll only be a minute!" parking and, of course, "on private property the law doesn't mean sh*t!" parking, which is almost the worst, because there you can just abandon your car, the lines or signs don't mean anything.
For me it's about respect for others. The approach to rules seems to be different. In Germany it's "The rules are there so we can all get along and everyone knows what their rights and obligations are". In Ireland it seems to be "Fcuk that, I'm not being bossed around, I'll just dump my car here, anyone has a problem with that, I'll just tell him to fcuk off"

I'm sure the streets were clean too. That's what a country with a socially responsible population is like. Nothing like Limerick!

chicorytip wrote: »

Would Mayorstone Gardai please deal in a similar manner with those who park dangerously on Shelbourne Road opposite the park entrance?

You'd expect the Gardai to be enforcing the law all over the place. Not in Ireland though and definitely not in Limerick. They think it's better to catch people speeding at the end of a motorway in the name of "safety"

washman3

jsd1004 wrote: »

I live in Spain. Its a 200 euro fine if you encroach on a footpath. That sorts it out fairly quickly. As in if you are on it you get the fine. Does not matter if you are in the car or out.

I take it that's in Madrid or Barcelona.??
It's certainly not the case in all Spanish cities/towns, and definitely not in the holiday resorts that I have visited, where parking is on par with the likes of William Street in Limerick or Main Street Rathkeale.
Comparing Limerick to cities in Spain or Germany is a fallacy. A city like Limerick would be only classed as a small town in mainland Europe.
Parking tickets are a waste of time in Limerick, be it €20 or €200.

John_Mc

washman3 wrote: »

I take it that's in Madrid or Barcelona.??
It's certainly not the case in all Spanish cities/towns, and definitely not in the holiday resorts that I have visited, where parking is on par with the likes of William Street in Limerick or Main Street Rathkeale.
Comparing Limerick to cities in Spain or Germany is a fallacy. A city like Limerick would be only classed as a small town in mainland Europe.
Parking tickets are a waste of time in Limerick, be it €20 or €200.

I don't see it as a falacy to expect that people adhere to the rules of the road, and respect their fellow citizens in the same way that they do in other countries. The size of the town or village is also irrelevant.

Why are you suggesting that we don't ticket anyone in Limerick cos it's a "waste of time"? Are you saying it should be clamping instead or do nothing at all?

washman3

John_Mc wrote: »

I don't see it as a falacy to expect that people adhere to the rules of the road, and respect their fellow citizens in the same way that they do in other countries. The size of the town or village is also irrelevant.

Why are you suggesting that we don't ticket anyone in Limerick cos it's a "waste of time"? Are you saying it should be clamping instead or do nothing at all?

Its a waste of time and resources because most of the time 'somebody knows somebody' and the ticket will be quashed, or like we've seen of late, people will go to court and swear blind that they never received the ticket.
We're living in the dark ages with a Garda or Traffic warden writing parking tickets. Does clamping really work.? the jury is still out on that.
If we want to get serious on bad parking we need drastic measures, confiscate the car for X amount of days and charge X amount to get it back. Where do we keep all the cars we confiscate? Plenty of empty yards around,after a few weeks/months only smaller compounds would be needed when the penny finally drops.
Cut out the pussy-footing once and for all.
That's my solution, whats yours.?

John_Mc

washman3 wrote: »

Its a waste of time and resources because most of the time 'somebody knows somebody' and the ticket will be quashed, or like we've seen of late, people will go to court and swear blind that they never received the ticket.
We're living in the dark ages with a Garda or Traffic warden writing parking tickets. Does clamping really work.? the jury is still out on that.
If we want to get serious on bad parking we need drastic measures, confiscate the car for X amount of days and charge X amount to get it back. Where do we keep all the cars we confiscate? Plenty of empty yards around,after a few weeks/months only smaller compounds would be needed when the penny finally drops.
Cut out the pussy-footing once and for all.
That's my solution, whats yours.?

You're over exaagerating with the tickets being written off I think. Maybe the odd on is "lost" but it can't be endemic as you're stating.

As for what I'm suggesting - basic enforcement would be nice. I have only ever seen the wardens inspecting tickets on cars that are parked correctly, but never on william street or the like where pople literally park on the road.

I hate clamping but it works. I lived in Dublin for 10 years and if you park like a d*ckhead you are rightly penalised for it. There's no claiming you didn't know about it either.

I think the system you're talking about is called towing and that's obviously going to be more expensive to operate than clamping. It's overkill in my opinion.

jsd1004

John_Mc wrote: »

You're over exaagerating with the tickets being written off I think. Maybe the odd on is "lost" but it can't be endemic as you're stating.

As for what I'm suggesting - basic enforcement would be nice. I have only ever seen the wardens inspecting tickets on cars that are parked correctly, but never on william street or the like where pople literally park on the road.

I hate clamping but it works. I lived in Dublin for 10 years and if you park like a d*ckhead you are rightly penalised for it. There's no claiming you didn't know about it either.

I think the system you're talking about is called towing and that's obviously going to be more expensive to operate than clamping. It's overkill in my opinion.

I have a place in Malaga city. You pause/stop on the footpath ..you get a 200 euro fine. I have got one..
They bring you to the atm for payment..makes you think

Jimbob1977

Parnell Street holds Olympic trials for triple parking.

Just people going in for a bag of chips, like

zulutango

William Street is currently operating with one lane only. The other lane is used for parking and deliveries. So, why not just formalise the situation and provide some limited parking and delivery bays, and widen the footpath where possible. This would improve the street for retailers and pedestrians and even improve the situation for motorists too. Alternatively, you could have a contra-flow cycle lane going down William Street that would greatly improve the situation for cyclists.

John_Mc

zulutango wrote: »

William Street is currently operating with one lane only. The other lane is used for parking and deliveries. So, why not just formalise the situation and provide some limited parking and delivery bays, and widen the footpath where possible. This would improve the street for retailers and pedestrians and even improve the situation for motorists too. Alternatively, you could have a contra-flow cycle lane going down William Street that would greatly improve the situation for cyclists.

Here we go again with the anti-motorist agenda.

If they did something like that then they would have to form a different route to get to the other side of the city for motorists. Traffic is funnelled there through the one way system in the exact same way as Henry street.

Also, it's not a good idea to do this on a road with so many bus stops on it

Mrcaramelchoc

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Parnell Street holds Olympic trials for triple parking.

Just people going in for a bag of chips, like

Sure don't you know the warning lights make you invisible!

Vanquished

John_Mc wrote: »

Here we go again with the anti-motorist agenda.

If they did something like that then they would have to form a different route to get to the other side of the city for motorists. Traffic is funnelled there through the one way system in the exact same way as Henry street.

Also, it's not a good idea to do this on a road with so many bus stops on it

You might want to rethink that a little. The people who display such a shocking lack of respect to all road users are motorists! That street operates at reduced capacity pretty much the entire time due to outrageous displays of ignorant, selfish, pathetic parking in the right hand lane! It's dangerous to other motorists, to pedestrians and to cyclists.

It's been occurring for as long as I can remember and at this point we'd be as well off to remove the lane, widen the footpath, throw in some extra loading bays and a cycle lane. The situation is an absolute mess with the existing arrangement!

zulutango

John_Mc wrote: »

Here we go again with the anti-motorist agenda.

If they did something like that then they would have to form a different route to get to the other side of the city for motorists. Traffic is funnelled there through the one way system in the exact same way as Henry street.

Also, it's not a good idea to do this on a road with so many bus stops on it

I've no anti-motorist agenda. Just a pro-Limerick one. In any case, I have no idea how you interpreted my post as anti-motorist, unless you're in favour of the illegal parking situation on William Street. Your second point bears no relevance to the one I made.

John_Mc

Vanquished wrote: »

You might want to rethink that a little. The people who display such a shocking lack of respect to all road users are motorists! That street operates at reduced capacity pretty much the entire time due to outrageous displays of ignorant, selfish, pathetic parking in the right hand lane! It's dangerous to other motorists, to pedestrians and to cyclists.

It's been occurring for as long as I can remember and at this point we'd be as well off to remove the lane, widen the footpath, throw in some extra loading bays and a cycle lane. The situation is an absolute mess with the existing arrangement!

I absolutely agree. I am on the OP who started this trhead as the situation is ridiculous.

I am forced to travel up William street 2-4 times a day during the week and it drives me mad each and every time. The solution, with the traffic flow as it is right now, is not to permanently close the right hand lane but to enforce the rules of the roads and clamp or toe the d*ckheads who abondon their cars there.

Pedestrians are just as bad on that road with most people running out across the road in front of incoming traffic.

John_Mc

zulutango wrote: »

I've no anti-motorist agenda. Just a pro-Limerick one. In any case, I have no idea how you interpreted my post as anti-motorist, unless you're in favour of the illegal parking situation on William Street. Your second point bears no relevance to the one I made.

You're against the NDR for a start. You basically want to close most lanes in the city (Henry st, William st) to encourage people to live there, which is fair enough, but you give no solutions to cars getting across the city.

As for the second point, if you close one lane and keep the bus stops there it will slow everything down as buses are slower and less agile than cars. I frequently see some tosser lorry driver blocking the right hand lane abeam the bus stop and the buses can't maneuver into the stops, so they stop in the middle of the road, then traffic is backed up across the Sarsfield bridge as far as the Strand. This will happen all the time with one lane permanently closed.

zulutango

John_Mc wrote: »

You're against the NDR for a start. You basically want to close most lanes in the city (Henry st, William st) to encourage people to live there, which is fair enough, but you give no solutions to cars getting across the city.

If we build the NDR would you agree to removing many of the traffic lanes in the city centre? Perhaps removing through-traffic altogether, as per the Groningen example? https://vimeo.com/76207227

John_Mc

zulutango wrote: »

If we build the NDR would you agree to removing many of the traffic lanes in the city centre? Perhaps removing through-traffic altogether, as per the Groningen example? https://vimeo.com/76207227

Yes, or an alternative to the NDR that everyone can agree to. As I said before, I've love Limerick to have the traits you're seeking and they are good ideas. But you can't do them without having the infrastructure in place for traffic. Ideally traffic could be routed around the city rather than through it.

We should have adequate public transport but we don't so most people drive and that fact can't be ignored.

As for your example there, there are 3 differences to the Netherlands:

• Not as flat in Ireland so cycling is physically harder. Good for health but lazy people won't bother
• Limerick has a terribly wet climate
• Bike crime is rampant and the Gardai are doing SFA about it

I live on the Ennis road and am amazed at the lack of people walking and cycling into the city in the morning. In Dublin it's astonishing how many get to work this way and it's great to see

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

If we build the NDR would you agree to removing many of the traffic lanes in the city centre? Perhaps removing through-traffic altogether, as per the Groningen example? https://vimeo.com/76207227

As has already been pointed out to you, Groningen has a full ring road, which Limerick doesn't. You're against building the NDR to complete the ring around the city, so how to you propose to remove though traffic without a full ring road.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

As has already been pointed out to you, Groningen has a full ring road, which Limerick doesn't. You're against building the NDR to complete the ring around the city, so how to you propose to remove though traffic without a full ring road.

I've previously said that the NDR only makes sense if you block through traffic, as they have done in Groningen.

kilburn

Here we go again........

sioda

There is a simple solution to parking incentives for the wardens or privatise the damn department.

William street is a shambles, but if people would just use the more than ample multistorey and park in actual spaces it would work fine

chicorytip

John_Mc wrote:

As for your example there, there are 3 differences to the Netherlands: Not as flat in Ireland so cycling is physically harder. Good for health but lazy people won't botherLimerick has a terribly wet climateBike crime is rampant and the Gardai are doing SFA about it I live on the Ennis road and am amazed at the lack of people walking and cycling into the city in the morning. In Dublin it's astonishing how many get to work this way and it's great to see

The numbers commuting by bicycle in Dublin is still rather low (10% approx.) in comparison to other European capital cities. Cycling around Limerick City centre, as I do regularly, can be dangerous and stressful mainly because lack of observation by some motorists and, more frequently, pedestrians (jaywalkers).

John_Mc

chicorytip wrote: »

The numbers commuting by bicycle in Dublin is still rather low (10% approx.) in comparison to other European capital cities. Cycling around Limerick City centre, as I do regularly, can be dangerous and stressful mainly because lack of observation by some motorists and, more frequently, pedestrians (jaywalkers).

Totally agree with you.

I don't think Ireland will ever get as high a percentage of people cycling to work as the european countrues because of the weather. It's a lot harder and more dangerous when it's dark, windy and wet.

I do think all motorists should have to try cycling in traffic for a while though. It definitely makes you more aware of how easy it is to hit someone

panda100

John_Mc wrote: »

I don't think Ireland will ever get as high a percentage of people cycling to work as the european countrues because of the weather. It's a lot harder and more dangerous when it's dark, windy and wet.

My brother is living in Vancouver at the moment which has a lot more rainfall than Ireland and everyone cycles there. I cycle to UL everyday whether its raining or not. I have a pair of waterproofs that I stick on, take them off when I get to uni and am bone dry for the rest of the day. It takes me 20minutes to cycle from city and would take me about 45minutes sitting in traffic if I were to drive. Cycling is a no-brainer and Ireland being dark,windy,wet is a bit of a lazy excuse imo.

John_Mc

panda100 wrote: »

My brother is living in Vancouver at the moment which has a lot more rainfall than Ireland and everyone cycles there. I cycle to UL everyday whether its raining or not. I have a pair of waterproofs that I stick on, take them off when I get to uni and am bone dry for the rest of the day. It takes me 20minutes to cycle from city and would take me about 45minutes sitting in traffic if I were to drive. Cycling is a no-brainer and Ireland being dark,windy,wet is a bit of a lazy excuse imo.

It is a lazy excuse - I described it as such myself. Most people are lazy and are only looking for an excuse.

A horrible wet, dark, and windy morning in January is plenty of excuse for them

panda100

John_Mc wrote: »

It is a lazy excuse - I described it as such myself. Most people are lazy and are only looking for an excuse.

A horrible wet, dark, and windy morning in January is plenty of excuse for them

Oh yep, sorry I totally missed what you were saying! I guess its laziness and the car culture we've adopted in Ireland too.

I pass the same people everyday on my commute and I have yet to see an overweight person commuting by bike. When I pass the cars sitting in traffic all I can see is obese people and children inside. These are usually the same people who don't understand when they get a stroke or cardiovascular disease. I don't know what we can do to incentive people to cycle/walk instead of driving but more awareness of the benefits on physical and mental health may help.

zulutango

panda100 wrote: »

Oh yep, sorry I totally missed what you were saying! I guess its laziness and the car culture we've adopted in Ireland too.

I pass the same people everyday on my commute and I have yet to see an overweight person commuting by bike. When I pass the cars sitting in traffic all I can see is obese people and children inside. These are usually the same people who don't understand when they get a stroke or cardiovascular disease. I don't know what we can do to incentive people to cycle/walk instead of driving but more awareness of the benefits on physical and mental health may help.

More restrictions on using cars and drastically more investment in alternatives. The problem with providing alternatives is that it's incredibly costly and inefficient and just not going to happen if we follow the low density development model. Vancouver is a very good example of where they resisted car-centric planning in the last half century, and it's the main reason it's such a nice city to live in, despite the weather. Other Canadian cities went the other way, Calgary being at the other end of the spectrum.