Tenancy rights - house extension

elarkin

Bit of weird one. I am currently renting a house with mates in dublin. We have been in our rented accommodation for just over a year and recently agreed a further 12 months under same rental terms.

However since then the landlord has decided to build an extension on to the house whereby he is adding an additional bedroom. From speaking to him is intention is to add another person into the house and increase rent. Obviously I would prefer to keep everything as is under same terms and would not like another person in the house.

Any idea where I stand or what my rights are in relation to this?

Graham

What form was the agreement for the 'further 12 months', did you sign a new lease?

elarkin

Graham wrote: »

What form was the agreement for the 'further 12 months', did you sign a new lease?

Yes a new lease was signed for 12 months

The_Conductor

Are you renting the house together, as a whole, or on a room-by-room basis?
This may affect your rights.
In general- you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.
The landlord in turn- can issue a valid termination of a tenancy under S34- for major renovation works- however, they will have to wait until the Part IV element of your tenancy ends- in order to do so (see also S40).

Graham

The_Conductor wrote: »

Are you renting the house together, as a whole, or on a room-by-room basis?
This may affect your rights.
In general- you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.
The landlord in turn- can issue a valid termination of a tenancy under S34- for major renovation works- however, they will have to wait until the Part IV element of your tenancy ends- in order to do so (see also S40).

+1

I presume they'd also need to wait for the end of the lease too.

The_Conductor

Graham wrote: »

+1

I presume they'd also need to wait for the end of the lease too.

Most certainly.
If they're intelligent- they'll mirror the Part IV break clauses from the Act in the fixed term tenancy- so as not to trip themselves up.

elarkin

The_Conductor wrote: »

Are you renting the house together, as a whole, or on a room-by-room basis?
This may affect your rights.
In general- you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.
The landlord in turn- can issue a valid termination of a tenancy under S34- for major renovation works- however, they will have to wait until the Part IV element of your tenancy ends- in order to do so (see also S40).

Renting house as a whole.

Michael D Not Higgins

elarkin wrote: »

Renting house as a whole.

Then he cannot just introduce a new tenant. He also can't just build an extension while you're there as it's likely to intrude on your peaceful enjoyment of the property as granted to tenants in the RTA 2004.

You'd need to make it clear what you want from the landlord otherwise you'll sleepwalk into a building site as a home for a few months. You do risk being given notice of termination for the reason of substantial renovation at the end of your 12 month lease but you'll be happier in the interim.

wordofwarning

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

You'd need to make it clear what you want from the landlord otherwise you'll sleepwalk into a building site as a home for a few months. You do risk being given notice of termination for the reason of substantial renovation at the end of your 12 month lease but you'll be happier in the interim.

I would hazard a guess that the extension is possibly going to be an excuse to bypass the rent cap ie major works. I would imagine OP will be evicted to allow the landlord take advance of the rent cap being lifted.

The_Conductor

wordofwarning wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that the extension is possibly going to be an excuse to bypass the rent cap ie major works. I would imagine OP will be evicted to allow the landlord take advance of the rent cap being lifted.

Even if this is the case- the simple fact is the OP cannot be expected to live in the property for the duration of structural works. He/she has rights. The landlord cannot just turn up with Bob the builder and start knocking the place down.

elarkin

The build is well under away and after speaking the landlord he hopes to have it done in 3 weeks. He's cutting alot of corners in the build also so I think he just wants to get it up as quick as possible.

His intention is to just plonk a person into this new room with getting us to find this person and up the rent accordingly. Not sure how legal this is? We have a lease so would he not have to wait for this to finish? If not would he not have to issue 3 months notice for a rent review etc.?

Browney7

elarkin wrote: »

The build is well under away and after speaking the landlord he hopes to have it done in 3 weeks. He's cutting alot of corners in the build also so I think he just wants to get it up as quick as possible.

His intention is to just plonk a person into this new room with getting us to find this person and up the rent accordingly. Not sure how legal this is? We have a lease so would he not have to wait for this to finish? If not would he not have to issue 3 months notice for a rent review etc.?

He can request what he likes, best of luck to him trying to enforce/get it. RTB will go through him for a shortcut if it's how you've specified it here.

elarkin

Browney7 wrote: »

He can request what he likes, best of luck to him trying to enforce/get it. RTB will go through him for a shortcut if it's how you've specified it here.

Yea i thought the same. He also intends to not involve the letting agent as he doesn't want to pay them the commission.

Let's say that after the extension is complete can he have any grounds for termination based on major construction then?

Browney7

elarkin wrote: »

Yea i thought the same. He also intends to not involve the letting agent as he doesn't want to pay them the commission.

Let's say that after the extension is complete can he have any grounds for termination based on major construction then?

I'd play dumb with him. Get everything in writing. Ask a few questions like, "what's the intention for the new extension?" and see if he confirms anything in writing. Maybe write a few emails notifying of noise from the workmen, garden being a mess but in a non confrontational way. Can be a trail for breach of peaceful and quiet enjoyment.

Realistically he'll have built ye a nice new extension and won't be able to retrospectively use major building or refurbishment as grounds for termination. He'll probably try pull the wishes to sell card or family member use and then if you wish to challenge that you may have evidence if he puts anything in writing. You would have to keep an eye on daft after you leave though to prove he didn't evict on false grounds. He sounds like a cowboy. How long do you plan on staying where you are?

elarkin

Browney7 wrote: »

I'd play dumb with him. Get everything in writing. Ask a few questions like, "what's the intention for the new extension?" and see if he confirms anything in writing. Maybe write a few emails notifying of noise from the workmen, garden being a mess but in a non confrontational way. Can be a trail for breach of peaceful and quiet enjoyment.

Realistically he'll have built ye a nice new extension and won't be able to retrospectively use major building or refurbishment as grounds for termination. He'll probably try pull the wishes to sell card or family member use and then if you wish to challenge that you may have evidence if he puts anything in writing. You would have to keep an eye on daft after you leave though to prove he didn't evict on false grounds. He sounds like a cowboy. How long do you plan on staying where you are?

Thanks ya he is a pure cowboy. He's all about maximising his revenue and doesn't care about anything else.

Living in dublin and only renting with mates as works out is a cheaper than renting an apartment. Obviously want to stay for the foreseeable future and save as much money as possible. But there are already 5 of us in the house as is and don't know if I'd like to live with another person. Living room area and kitchen simply wouldn't be able to accommodate that many people!

Varik

elarkin wrote: »

Thanks ya he is a pure cowboy. He's all about maximising his revenue and doesn't care about anything else.

Living in dublin and only renting with mates as works out is a cheaper than renting an apartment. Obviously want to stay for the foreseeable future and save as much money as possible. But there are already 5 of us in the house as is and don't know if I'd like to live with another person. Living room area and kitchen simply wouldn't be able to accommodate that many people!

Lived with 4 in College and that was hard for press and fridge space, and I doubt you've any more than the standard stuff we had.

When was your last rent review, that could be an issue.

He may be able to up your rent more than the 4% due to the extension adding significant value to the house, possibly by as much as he was planning to rent the extra room for if the op starts to fight him.

Depends on when the last rent review was too.

Browney7

Selene Tiny Monument wrote: »

He may be able to up your rent more than the 4% due to the extension adding significant value to the house, possibly by as much as he was planning to rent the extra room for if the op starts to fight him.

Depends on when the last rent review was too.

If he didn't need to remove them from the property it hardly constitutes a significant renovation in the landlord hating RTB's eyes does it? Effectively nullifies his grounds for the rent review.

Browney7

elarkin wrote: »

Thanks ya he is a pure cowboy. He's all about maximising his revenue and doesn't care about anything else.

Living in dublin and only renting with mates as works out is a cheaper than renting an apartment. Obviously want to stay for the foreseeable future and save as much money as possible. But there are already 5 of us in the house as is and don't know if I'd like to live with another person. Living room area and kitchen simply wouldn't be able to accommodate that many people!

Tread carefully here, does he know five are in the house and has he given agreement on this? Reason I asked about your time horizon is that realistically ye have the remainder of your fixed term lease and any notice period at the minimum to remain there. Once that's up or nearing cessation you could look at negotiations then regarding staying longer and the arrangements that will apply

Browney7

Browney7 wrote: »

If he didn't need to remove them from the property it hardly constitutes a significant renovation in the landlord hating RTB's eyes does it? Effectively nullifies his grounds for the rent review.

If he stuck in a couch instead of a bed for now and called it a living room rather than a bedroom the tenants would be getting more value from the property as there are already a few living there and would now have much more space.

That would surely be grounds for an increased rent above the 4%.

Varik

Browney7 wrote: »

If he didn't need to remove them from the property it hardly constitutes a significant renovation in the landlord hating RTB's eyes does it? Effectively nullifies his grounds for the rent review.

Pretty sure that was an example of what could be a "significant" rather than a requirement, the RTB weren't very forthcoming in their definition.

It's not a new coat of paint in the kitchen, hard to say a entire new bedroom isn't significant.

elarkin

Varik wrote: »

Lived with 4 in College and that was hard for press and fridge space, and I doubt you've any more than the standard stuff we had.

When was your last rent review, that could be an issue.

Thanks for all the replies. Our lease started in May 2016. We agreed in April to extend for another 12 months under same terms. So first rent review would be due in May 2018.

It's a 5 double bed house as is and all 5 of our names are on the lease so we have kept to our agreement in the lease so far!

pilly

Sounds like an absolute chancer to me but to be honest you should have started raising the query when the extension was started. Get on to the RTB now for advice but I don't understand why you didn't sooner.

As others have mentioned he could possibly use the extension as an excuse to get around the rent pressure zone thing since it is a substantial improvement so now is the time to start looking into it.

friendlybee

I wonder does the landlord have planning permission to extend?
I bet he is a chancer to try get more people in and more rent. Better get onto RTB straight away

Browney7

friendlybee wrote: »

I wonder does the landlord have planning permission to extend?
I bet he is a chancer to try get more people in and more rent. Better get onto RTB straight away

I think keeping schtum is probably a better course of action. Make him go to the RTB to try get the increased rent? Keep paying what they are paying and keep everything in writing?

friendlybee

friendlybee wrote: »

I wonder does the landlord have planning permission to extend?
I bet he is a chancer to try get more people in and more rent. Better get onto RTB straight away

If its only a bed room it most likely doesn't need planning as it will be under the size requirements.

Browney7 wrote: »

I think keeping schtum is probably a better course of action. Make him go to the RTB to try get the increased rent? Keep paying what they are paying and keep everything in writing?

That's not how it works, the LL can't "go to the RTB" to get the increased rent. He will issue a notice of increased rent and the op either accepts it or challenges it by going to the RTB.

elarkin

Selene Tiny Monument wrote: »

If its only a bed room it most likely doesn't need planning as it will be under the size requirements.



That's not how it works, the LL can't "go to the RTB" to get the increased rent. He will issue a notice of increased rent and the op either accepts it or challenges it by going to the RTB.

Yes the room is small enough that it doesn't need planning permission.

I will contact the RTB and see where this will bring me. Thanks

Browney7

Selene Tiny Monument wrote: »

If its only a bed room it most likely doesn't need planning as it will be under the size requirements.



That's not how it works, the LL can't "go to the RTB" to get the increased rent. He will issue a notice of increased rent and the op either accepts it or challenges it by going to the RTB.

Op just keeps paying what they are paying and LL issues all his arrears notices and goes to the RTB looking for his arrears is what I was implying.

I'm advocating the OP sticks to his extra 12 month lease/fixed term agreement at the agreed rent which was agreed a few months ago to May 2018.

Browney7

Browney7 wrote: »

Op just keeps paying what they are paying and LL issues all his arrears notices and goes to the RTB looking for his arrears is what I was implying.

I'm advocating the OP sticks to his extra 12 month lease/fixed term agreement at the agreed rent which was agreed a few months ago to May 2018.

No he will issue an arrears notice and if that's ignored he will issue an eviction notice. The op is then has to vacate in the given period or he is over holding.

Anyway he can't up the rent until 2018 but its worth pointing this out anyway.

Browney7

Selene Tiny Monument wrote: »

No he will issue an arrears notice and if that's ignored he will issue an eviction notice. The op is then has to vacate in the given period or he is over holding.

Anyway he can't up the rent until 2018 but its worth pointing this out anyway.

So if LL tries to up rent next month he has to go to the RTB to tell him go jump despite fixed term agreement. Seems a bit mad

The_Conductor

Browney7 wrote: »

So if LL tries to up rent next month he has to go to the RTB to tell him go jump despite fixed term agreement. Seems a bit mad

If the situation is exactly as you have described- the landlord is insane and delusional if he imagines that what he is doing is going to fly.

If the landlord tries to modify the lease- lob a case into the RTB- you're on safe ground.

You say he is cutting corners- totally aside from him being a complete chancer- he isn't affecting the structural integrity of the dwelling?

When I referred to 'Bob the builder' in my earlier post- honestly- it sounds like the landlord did manage to find Bob the builder somewhere...........