Living next to an airbnb

suicide_circus

So my neighbors are airbnbing out a spare room in the apartment next to us.

I'm not wild on the idea of living next door to a commercial premises or the fact that a new stranger every week has a key to our building.

I'm 99% sure that the neighbors in question are not the owners of the apartment but just renting like myself.

The management company have a list of House Rules in the lobby but this does not include a ban on short terms lets.

Just looking for some advice on how you guys would handle this situation.

Thanks!

Victor

If it's just a room and the resident is still living there, I'm not sure there is much you can do. By most definitions, it's not a commercial premises.

Short-term letting of the whole apartment is another matter and needs planning permission and likely the permission of the management company.

wordofwarning

suicide_circus wrote: »

or the fact that a new stranger every week has a key to our building.

I don't understand this argument at all. Dress somewhat respectable, wait at the door of any apartment block and smile. Within 5 mins I guarantee someone will let you in and you can roaming around the apartment block. Who cares if a stranger has a key that can't be cut(likely it needs a code), when people let randomers in non-stop anyway. I have never had someone not let me slip in behind them entering an apartment block in Dublin.

At the end of the day, the other people living in the Airbnb will be going to work/College etc. They are not going to tolerate partying, when they have to be in work at 9am the next day. I have mentioned before in another thread. I know of an apartment block in town, where the residents find the guests in the Airbnbs to more courteous and considerate of others in the block, than long term tenants eg the Airbnbs tend to do a lot of sight seeing and are rarely in the apartments. The same can't be said for the long term tenants

IMO most people underestimate the work involved in Airbnb. They are going to have to have their apartment spotless at all times and be super nice and bubbly to guests, otherwise they will get poor reviews. Poor reviews will result in no bookings or low value bookings. They might do it for a few weeks and tire of it. It is not just slapping up the property and raking in the cash. It is quite hard work.

I would not be surprised if there is already Airbnbs in the building and you just have not noticed it. You might not have known about the Airbnb if they had not told you

Mrs OBumble

suicide_circus wrote: »

.

Just looking for some advice on how you guys would handle this situation.

Thanks!

I would mind my own business and quit imagining problem when there are none.

Occasionally I might even be grateful that I don't live next to drug dealers or a family with a zillion loud kids, or a wife beater.

That's what i would do.

suicide_circus

Woah OK, thats me told. i seem to have touched a nerve.

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Occasionally I might even be grateful that I don't live next to drug dealers or a family with a zillion loud kids, or a wife beater.

:rolleyes: how helpful.

OP, I wouldn't worry too much. The fact it's only a spare room being rented is likely to result in a much quieter type of guest. You're not likely to get half a dozen people stumbling into the block after a night on the town and the fact the host lives in the apartment means any problems are likely to be addressed instantly.

Naturally that's assuming the wife-beating drug dealer with 18 children doesn't decide to AirBnB it for his holidays

Achasanai

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would mind my own business and quit imagining problem when there are none.

Occasionally I might even be grateful that I don't live next to drug dealers or a family with a zillion loud kids, or a wife beater.

That's what i would do.

What an incredibly unhelpful reply. If a person is wondering whether having strangers accessing his apartment block on a regular basis, he should be thankful s/he doesn't live beside the absolute worst neighbours?

suicide_circus wrote: »

Woah OK, thats me told. i seem to have touched a nerve.

I think Mrs O'Bumble has form on this. I wouldn't take it personally.

gizmo81

The people here saying put up and shut up etc have form when it comes to tenants rights, that is they don't believe tenants should have any rights.

People including myself were threatened by Air BnB guests in my last property.

We had them buzzing the intercom during the night.

They were banging the doors of apartments when they couldn't remember the apartment their Air BnB was in.

Air BnB should be banned form non owner occupiers and not into multi-unit complexes.

One Air BnB in our property was doubling as a brothel for touring escorts.

If it's such a legit business why are adverts saying, don't talk to neighbours.

Write to your landlord.

Write to property enforcement in your local council.

Take a third party case to the RTB. (I did this and won)

yosser hughes

suicide_circus wrote: »

So my neighbors are airbnbing out a spare room in the apartment next to us.

I'm not wild on the idea of living next door to a commercial premises or the fact that a new stranger every week has a key to our building.

I'm 99% sure that the neighbors in question are not the owners of the apartment but just renting like myself.

The management company have a list of House Rules in the lobby but this does not include a ban on short terms lets.

Just looking for some advice on how you guys would handle this situation.

Thanks!

Report to management company and revenue. There are insurance issues here as well.

Freddiestar

If the tenant has a proper contract with the landlord chances are that sub-letting is not allowed, which is what Airbnb is if the tenant also lives there.
There is good money to be made if apartment is decent and good reviews start building up, €50 per night would cover a lot of your monthly rent, tax free, mostly hassle free tourists who go into town for the whole day and most don't want breakfast, so why not....have a go yourself OP

One_Of_Shanks

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would mind my own business and quit imagining problem when there are none.

Occasionally I might even be grateful that I don't live next to drug dealers or a family with a zillion loud kids, or a wife beater.

That's what i would do.

Charming.

Murrisk

OP, I wouldn't worry too much in this instance, if it's a spare room that being let out, there are much less likely to be anti-social problems unlike a full-time short-term let apartment.

Mrs OBumble

Achasanai wrote: »

I think Mrs O'Bumble has form on this. I wouldn't take it personally.

Form for putting things simply? Yup thats me and no apologies for it.

Frankly you'll have as much trouble from students and the like as you will from BnB people, no matter what website the latter come from.

geecee

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would mind my own business and quit imagining problem when there are none.

Occasionally I might even be grateful that I don't live next to drug dealers or a family with a zillion loud kids, or a wife beater.

That's what i would do.

Funnily enough in an apartment across from mine there was originally a wife beater who we had to call the guards for several times due to some very public beatings.

The wife beater moved out and was replaced by a gang of South American Drug dealers, this resulted in quite a lot of anti-social late night callers shouting and collecting their fix from the first floor balcony.

my neighbouring apartment is now Airbnb... and to be honest I would take back either of the first 2 groups above in preference to Airbnb as the anti-social element has increased tenfold. Hen parties & strippers, stag parties & hookers, fights, doors slamming, doors being jammed open, filthy corridors, rubbish being left in common areas, guys pissing off the balconies onto people below, pissing in the lift, smashed glass on footbath, abandoned drink containers all over the place etc etc

They even have maids now who go around with trolleys from apartment to apartment like housekeeping in a hotel in between lettings! They are just as annoying as no sooner does an all night party calm down on a Sunday morning before the cleaners spend the next 2 hours bashing and banging trying to fix the place up for the next shower of thugs

Thankfully our Management Company has voted to change the house rules to outlaw all short term lettings at our AGM... so the AirBnb crowd will hopefully be gone soon

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

The people here saying put up and shut up etc have form when it comes to tenants rights, that is they don't believe tenants should have any rights.

People including myself were threatened by Air BnB guests in my last property.

We had them buzzing the intercom during the night.

They were banging the doors of apartments when they couldn't remember the apartment their Air BnB was in.

Air BnB should be banned form non owner occupiers and not into multi-unit complexes.

One Air BnB in our property was doubling as a brothel for touring escorts.

If it's such a legit business why are adverts saying, don't talk to neighbours.

Write to your landlord.

Write to property enforcement in your local council.

Take a third party case to the RTB. (I did this and won)

The op has clearly stated that his next door neighbour is an owner occupier or a tenant who is renting a spare room on Airbnb so none of what you are saying applies. You should read the posts before launching into a rant.

yosser hughes wrote: »

Report to management company and revenue. There are insurance issues here as well.

As above if the occupier is renting a spare room on Airbnb then the management company can't do anything (especially as the op says its not banned in the complex), how do you know the person isn't paying tax, they wouldn't even be due to make a return until the end of the year so revenue will have little interest.

gizmo81

How does it not apply? I took a third party case to RTB because my neighbours sub-let a room on Air BnB with the landlords permission.

It is a landlords responsibility to enforce his tenants obligations!

Perhaps you should increase your knowledge base before attacking a poster.

Ivan Warm Ump wrote: »

The op has clearly stated that his next door neighbour is an owner occupier or a tenant who is renting a spare room on Airbnb so none of what you are saying applies. You should read the posts before launching into a rant.



As above if the occupier is renting a spare room on Airbnb then the management company can't do anything (especially as the op says its not banned in the complex), how do you know the person isn't paying tax, they wouldn't even be due to make a return until the end of the year so revenue will have little interest.

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

How does it not apply? I took a third party case to RTB because my neighbours sub-let a room on Air BnB with the landlords permission.

It is a landlords responsibility to enforce his tenants obligations!

Perhaps you should increase your knowledge base before attacking a poster.

I don't see what case you had to be honest so I'm not inclined to believe it. No difference between a tenant letting a room on Airbnb and an owner occupier doing it and once the owner/tenant lives their then doing Airbnb breaks no rules as they all apply to full properties being let.

You sound like a pretty painful neighbour too I suppose you report people who have visitors too or who rent rooms under the rent a room scheme.

There may be some merit in complaints about full apartments let on Airbnb in complexes but there is none with any merit against people letting a spare room on it imo.

oppenheimer1

Achasanai wrote: »

What an incredibly unhelpful reply. If a person is wondering whether having strangers accessing his apartment block on a regular basis, he should be thankful s/he doesn't live beside the absolute worst neighbours?



I think Mrs O'Bumble has form on this. I wouldn't take it personally.

Does the OP know everyone that's living in the block? Unlikely, therefore strangers have always been accessing the block.

People really have little to be worrying about. So what if someone has a room up on Airbnb, it's no one else's business tbh.

SterlingArcher

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would mind my own business and quit imagining problem when there are none.

Occasionally I might even be grateful that I don't live next to drug dealers or a family with a zillion loud kids, or a wife beater.

That's what i would do.

Hahaha this is magnificent.

I give this advice 5 stars. So you all step off.

wordofwarning

yosser hughes wrote: »

Report to management company and revenue

There is no need to. Revenue gets files from Airbnb constantly telling them how much is collected from it.

I know there is ton of lies about Airbnb eg tax evasion from it. There is no need to lose sleep over it, as Revenue already knows every cent you get from Airbnb

Ronaldinho

suicide_circus wrote: »

So my neighbors are airbnbing out a spare room in the apartment next to us.

I'm not wild on the idea of living next door to a commercial premises or the fact that a new stranger every week has a key to our building.

I'm 99% sure that the neighbors in question are not the owners of the apartment but just renting like myself.

The management company have a list of House Rules in the lobby but this does not include a ban on short terms lets.

Just looking for some advice on how you guys would handle this situation.

Thanks!

Try to forget about it for the moment.

I wouldn't be too concerned because as other posters have said - the other tenant is unlikely to defecate on his own doorstep by turning his apartment into a madhouse for want of a better term.

If problems (noise or whatever) arise down the line then get on to the management company.

gizmo81

Why attack my character?

I'm sharing my experience in the hope it will help someone else. Tenants are entitled to 'peaceful enjoyment' this includes third party cases.

What part of threats from Air BnB guests, brothels etc do you think is acceptable?

You have no foresight, no solutions to add? Does that not make you part of the problem?

Have you vested interests you want to divulge?

Ivan Warm Ump wrote: »

I don't see what case you had to be honest so I'm not inclined to believe it. No difference between a tenant letting a room on Airbnb and an owner occupier doing it and once the owner/tenant lives their then doing Airbnb breaks no rules as they all apply to full properties being let.

You sound like a pretty painful neighbour too I suppose you report people who have visitors too or who rent rooms under the rent a room scheme.

There may be some merit in complaints about full apartments let on Airbnb in complexes but there is none with any merit against people letting a spare room on it imo.

wordofwarning

gizmo81 wrote: »

The people here saying put up and shut up etc have form when it comes to tenants rights, that is they don't believe tenants should have any rights.

Im sorry, but this is just so hypocritical. You are on about tenants having rights today. Yet just under two weeks ago you were saying that tenants should not be allowed to Airbnb at all. That only owner occupiers should be allowed to have Airbnbs.

I find bizarre that you believe tenants deserve rights, but yet they can't be trusted with managing an Airbnb. Despite being a tenant, you still see tenants are inferior to owner occupiers, which is unique to say the least. Give tenants rights, but limit them at the same time...

gizmo81 wrote: »

People including myself were threatened by Air BnB guests in my last property.

We had them buzzing the intercom during the night.

They were banging the doors of apartments when they couldn't remember the apartment their Air BnB was in.

Im failing to see how any of these are unique to Airbnb. At all...

You could replace Airbnb with a long term tenant in every one of these circumstances. I know a lot of apartment blocks, where the issues caused by long term tenants is disproportionate to issues caused by Airbnbs ie there are more troublesome long term tenants per no of units versus Airbnbs. Due to new legislation ie the changing of Part IV, bad tenants can now reside in a property for up to 6 years.

gizmo81 wrote: »

One Air BnB in our property was doubling as a brothel for touring escorts.

And if they were long term tenants, you could have johns slipping in and out for the next 6 years(Part IV rights). As don't forget laws were changed and being a prostitute is not illegal now.

Lets get real, there are probably more escorts working in the apartment blocks in the IFSC, Dublin 2 and Dublin 7 than the red light district in Amsterdam. Prostitute is underground in Dublin. A lot of apartment blocks have working guys and girls, most people don't notice it. Most people never realise they are living next store to a brothel. The next set of tenants usually find out though. But only then do people realise that a property was a brothel

BTW what issues did the working girls cause other than people walking about the complex, that could slip in behind someone walking in anyway?

(Also I am finding it very hard to believe there was a touring brothel, unless your apartment block is ultra luxury.... Escorts require all clients to shower. Most apartments in Dublin only have one shower. So unless the escorts were very fortunate to find a rare multi-bedroom apartment all ensuite, they were likely poorly dressed women and not working girls.).

gizmo81 wrote: »

If it's such a legit business why are adverts saying, don't talk to neighbours.

You said in your post just under two weeks ago, you didn't realised there was several in your apartment block before looking online. That is the reason. Certain things only became an issue when you realised it was Airbnb related. You have people like OP totally irrational about this Airbnb next store when they probably never have noticed without being told about it.

Come on, OP is worrying about strangers having keys and getting into the block! I would hazard a guess OP has let dozens of well dressed strangers into over the years, "who forgot their keys" or "I am just popping up to my friend".

Literally thousands of people live next store to an Airbnb without realising it. You tell them its an Airbnb one day and suddenly every poorly dressed women is a possibly a touring escort.

Graham

I find it quite odd that so many people can't accept the legitimate concerns people may have when they discover they are suddenly living next to holiday accommodation with an automatic stream of transient occupiers.

To tell people they should 'mind their own business' or they are somehow trampling on someones non-existent rights to ignore head-leases or planning legislation is absurd.

While I would have no issue if a neighbour decided to take in the occasional AirBnB guest, I can absolutely understand why others may see it as the start of a slippery slope that may result in their home transforming into something resembling a Club 18-30 resort.

That fear is probably compounded by the attitudes expressed by some of the AirBnB hosts who make no secret of their "neighbours/laws be damned I'm making money" attitude.

The_Conductor

Guys-

I am almost embarrassed to see the level of sniping and snide comments on this thread. Its not difficult to remain civil towards one another- regardless of whether your opinion or viewpoint is similar or diametrically oppossed to that of either the OP or other posters.

If you disagree with what another poster posts- refute the post, *without* attacking the poster. If you see misbehaviour- use the 'report post' function- to bring the post to the attention of the moderation team- rather than starting a feud with the poster.

We have a very laissez faire attitude in this forum- we will not, however, permit squabbling, nitpicking, snarky remarks and feuding- it is wholly unacceptable.

Regards-

The_Conductor

aluminium

wordofwarning wrote: »

I don't understand this argument at all. Dress somewhat respectable, wait at the door of any apartment block and smile. Within 5 mins I guarantee someone will let you in and you can roaming around the apartment block. Who cares if a stranger has a key that can't be cut(likely it needs a code), when people let randomers in non-stop anyway. I have never had someone not let me slip in behind them entering an apartment block in Dublin.

I work in maintenance. I dont have time to run back to management companies for codes / fobs etc.
I turn up at the door with a high viz and screw driver and am always let in with no questions to any and every apartment block.
Getting past the gates with a vehicle is a different matter - but the front door - never a problem.

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

Why attack my character?

I'm sharing my experience in the hope it will help someone else. Tenants are entitled to 'peaceful enjoyment' this includes third party cases.

What part of threats from Air BnB guests, brothels etc do you think is acceptable?

You have no foresight, no solutions to add? Does that not make you part of the problem?

Have you vested interests you want to divulge?

If your third party RTB case was against a place being run as an Airbnb knocking shop then that's immensely different to a normal neighbour renting is spare room on Airbnb.

Also as another poster said apartments being used as brothels is far from a problem exclusive to Airbnb. I know of one case in detail where a brothel was being operated from an apartment under long term lease in a very respected and high end apartment, it went on for years and nothing was done until one of the prostitues overdoesed on a stairwell which finally promoted some action to happen. I agree it was a crap situation for the people in the complex but something like this is not an Airbnb issue it equally applies to long term let's.

Same for getting threatened you regulalry see threads on here with people in disputes and being threatened by long term complex dwellers.

Again there may be merit in some complaints about full apartments being let on Airbnb but an occupier renting a spare room in this way I can't see the problem nor does it breach planning, head leases etc.

The_Conductor

aluminium wrote: »

I work in maintenance. I dont have time to run back to management companies for codes / fobs etc.
I turn up at the door with a high viz and screw driver and am always let in with no questions to any and every apartment block.
Getting past the gates with a vehicle is a different matter - but the front door - never a problem.

Flipside of this coin- I'm a director of a development.
I held someone who pulled this stunt- who I think was casing the joint.
They had a high-vis jacket and a belt with some tools on it.
I didn't recognise them.
The Gardaí did collect them fairly promptly and took a statement from me that evening.

People *need* to exercise caution when letting people into apartment buildings or gated communities- just because someone looks like they should be there- doesn't mean they have the right to be there.

gizmo81

“A huge number of the properties are available as short-term holiday lets for a week at a time, so they’ve been targeted by the sex trade".

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/architecture-design-blog/2017/jun/13/an-embarrassment-to-the-city-what-went-wrong-with-the-725m-gateway-to-cambridge

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/04/criminals-renting-holiday-lets-pop-up-brothels-police-newquay

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39528479

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/bed-bonkfest-hookers-abuse-airbnb-3434293

Ms Doubtfire1

Achasanai wrote: »

What an incredibly unhelpful reply. If a person is wondering whether having strangers accessing his apartment block on a regular basis, he should be thankful s/he doesn't live beside the absolute worst :Dneighbours?



I think Mrs O'Bumble has form on this. I wouldn't take it personally.

she does. Thats why i have her on the ignore list.:-)

Fian

You could try contacting their landlord if you have contact details. It is unlikely that the landlord has consented to this given the additional wear and tear involved, and it is likely that your neighbour is in breach of the conditions of their lease with their landlord.

Victor

gizmo81 wrote: »

If it's such a legit business why are adverts saying, don't talk to neighbours.

There are goods sides for this as well, perhaps that should say "Don't talk to neighbours and don't bang on their doors at 3am"?

Write to property enforcement in your local council.

Planning enforcement?

geecee wrote: »

Thankfully our Management Company has voted to change the house rules to outlaw all short term lettings at our AGM... so the AirBnb crowd will hopefully be gone soon

It's likely they don't have planning permission - complain to planning enforcement.

wordofwarning

gizmo81 wrote: »

“A huge number of the properties are available as short-term holiday lets for a week at a time, so they’ve been targeted by the sex trade".

http://www.thejournal.ie/prostitutes-sex-ruhama-children-3278977-Mar2017/

http://www.sundayworld.com/news/crimedesk/posh-prostitutes-exposed-in-dublins-ifsc-as-clampdown-starts-on-pimps

A huge number of everyday long term rentals are being used as brothels. The setting up of brothels in apartment blocks occurred well before Airbnb and it will continue if Airbnb is banned. I imagine a fraction of brothels in Dublin are Airbnb properties and most are regular long term properties.

The fact is Airbnb/long term rentals is not facilitating the sex trade. It is serving a need that exists. Banning Airbnbs will not stop brothels being operated out of apartments blocks. Setting up a red light district like in Amsterdam or German Cities will get escorts out of residential buildings.

Instead of pretending banning Airbnb will get escorts out of apartment blocks, we should be focusing on setting up red light districts. But we have chosen a different legislative path

ziggyman17

airbnb apartment owners should have to pay more management fees for damage that is constantly done to the common areas of the apartment block, I work in an apartment complex and we have a few airbnb's in the complex, constant traffic of suitcases through the common areas results in carpets being marked from the wheels of suitcases when its raining, constant marks on walls from suitcases and bags being scrapped against walls, flicking cigarette butts off the balcony on to the ground, the list is endless, they think they are staying in a motel not a apartment complex that is a HOME to a lot of people, the landlords do not give a **** because they do not live there and are collecting good money, put them staying next door to the landlords and it would be a different story........

Graham

It's probably fair to say the brothel scenario for both long term lets or short-term rentals is the exception rather than the norm.

gizmo81

One of the annoying things was the walloping of wheelie suitcases off every step of the four flights of stairs numerous times a day everyday of the week. Two years later I can still feel that sound.

ziggyman17 wrote: »

airbnb apartment owners should have to pay more management fees for damage that is constantly done to the common areas of the apartment block, I work in an apartment complex and we have a few airbnb's in the complex, constant traffic of suitcases through the common areas results in carpets being marked from the wheels of suitcases when its raining, constant marks on walls from suitcases and bags being scrapped against walls, flicking cigarette butts off the balcony on to the ground, the list is endless, they think they are staying in a motel not a apartment complex that is a HOME to a lot of people, the landlords do not give a **** because they do not live there and are collecting good money, put them staying next door to the landlords and it would be a different story........

eeguy

ziggyman17 wrote: »

airbnb apartment owners should have to pay more management fees for damage that is constantly done to the common areas of the apartment block, I work in an apartment complex and we have a few airbnb's in the complex, constant traffic of suitcases through the common areas results in carpets being marked from the wheels of suitcases when its raining, constant marks on walls from suitcases and bags being scrapped against walls, flicking cigarette butts off the balcony on to the ground, the list is endless, they think they are staying in a motel not a apartment complex that is a HOME to a lot of people, the landlords do not give a **** because they do not live there and are collecting good money, put them staying next door to the landlords and it would be a different story........

Come off it. The list may be endless yet you've given two poor examples. Pay more because of marks from suitcases? Are you for real? You hardly see hotels constantly painting the walls.

Would you have noticed if you weren't told it was AirBNB? Would you even notice if a neighbour had a friends staying over every so often?

Graham

eeguy wrote: »

Come off it. The list may be endless yet you've given two poor examples. Pay more because of marks from suitcases? Are you for real? You hardly see hotels constantly painting the walls.

Most hotels make it their business that you don't see them constantly maintaining the property.

ziggyman17

eeguy wrote: »

Come off it. The list may be endless yet you've given two poor examples. Pay more because of marks from suitcases? Are you for real? You hardly see hotels constantly painting the walls.

Would you have noticed if you weren't told it was AirBNB? Would you even notice if a neighbour had a friends staying over every so often?

walls in apartment block gets freshly painted on wednesday, wednesday evening airbnb people come into to stay drag suitcases in and Thursday morning freshly painted walls all marked, it costs money for labour and paint............. this is from experience of working in property management for the past 20 years, and since this airbnb thing came in a couple of years ago, the amount of maintenance to common areas have gone up and also hotels are purposely built to take in constant guests, apartment blocks are not.........

wordofwarning

ziggyman17 wrote: »

walls in apartment block gets freshly painted on wednesday, wednesday evening airbnb people come into to stay drag suitcases in and Thursday morning freshly painted walls all marked, it costs money for labour and paint............. this is from experience of working in property management for the past 20 years, and since this airbnb thing came in a couple of years ago, the amount of maintenance to common areas have gone up and also hotels are purposely built to take in constant guests, apartment blocks are not.........

What are people with suitcases dragging them along walls? You wheel cases in the middle of hallway, but you often drag bikes along walls...

I would hazard a guess the damage is from bicycles, since a lot of owners prefer to store bikes in apartment rather than the bike store if they have one in their block. Bike ownership has soared in recent years. The rise of Airbnb and damage to apartment blocks sounds like correlation is not causation to me.