Priests in Crises

jimd2

Interesting piece here from a meeting of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in Cavan.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/crisis-in-irish-catholic-priesthood-revealed-at-meetings-of-clergy-1.3135908
I really empathize with the problems these priests are having. They have been badly served by those at the top of the catholic church

hinault

jimd2 wrote: »

Interesting piece here from a meeting of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in Cavan.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/crisis-in-irish-catholic-priesthood-revealed-at-meetings-of-clergy-1.3135908
I really empathize with the problems these priests are having. They have been badly served by those at the top of the catholic church

Two health warnings.

Patsy McGarry.
ACP.

ACP is actually working to try to deconstruct the Irish Catholic Church. It doesn't come to any issue concerning the church with clean hands.

I notice that many of the "traditional" Catholic orders are flourishing as regards numbers enrolling as seminarians.

Thinkingaboutit

I think the elderly pantheists of ACP/Patsy McGarry should only be given attention so that careful effort is made to avoid doing what they suggest. Any bishop who models his seminary after the form laid down at Trent has no shortage of seminarians (a devout young man wants prayerful and learned formation but has no interest in continually watching out for predatory homosexual fellow seminarians or teachers, like in Maynooth or now closed places like St Peters which became pink palaces post V2 and formed priests like Fr Sean Fortune). Some Orders like the Franciscan of the Immaculate who made the Mass of Ages the core of their charism suffered vindictive attack, with incompetents from dying or near dead Orders like the Salesians given charge or rewriting their constitutions, so that they too will die like all who embraced the 'Spirit of Vatican 2.' Religious Orders, by contrast, which sing the Office in Latin (supported by V2, forbidden by the 'Spirit of V2' tendency) thrive.

lazybones32

jimd2 wrote: »

Interesting piece here from a meeting of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in Cavan.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/crisis-in-irish-catholic-priesthood-revealed-at-meetings-of-clergy-1.3135908
I really empathize with the problems these priests are having. They have been badly served by those at the top of the catholic church

I disagree about it being interesting (the 2 times i've read* an IT piece about ACP, the IT has just edited stuff from ACP's website without exploring the issues...usually just repeating any criticism of the RCC)

Given the problems faced by priests, how has the hierarchy of the Church failed them?

Don2012

jimd2 wrote: »

Interesting piece here from a meeting of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in Cavan.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/crisis-in-irish-catholic-priesthood-revealed-at-meetings-of-clergy-1.3135908
I really empathize with the problems these priests are having. They have been badly served by those at the top of the catholic church

Anything by "The Irish Times" is anti-Catholic and pushing an propaganda.

smacl

Don2012 wrote: »

Anything by "The Irish Times" is anti-Catholic and pushing an propaganda.

Not a Breda O'Brien fan than? Fair enough

J C

80 priests taking their own lives, is very sad indeed.

It's actually quite shocking ... and presumbly this is 'the tip of an iceberg' of loneliness and despair.

I do have great sympathy for the plight of the, mostly elderly, male and female clergy of the RCC in Ireland ... practically all of whom are decent Human Beings who have dedicated their lives in service of God and man ... only to now be rewarded, in many cases, with barely concealed contempt, in their twilight years, by many of the very people, they have prayed for and helped down the years ... and through no fault of their own.

I may have theological differences with them ... but, at a Human level, I empathise very much with them in their loneliness and despair.

... perhaps if they were all Saved, this mightn't be happening ... but that is between themselves and God.

I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to be an elderly priest, working harder than they did in their youth, well into their seventies and eighties ... and coming home to an empty cold house every evening, possibly with an insult from an ignorant member of the public ringing in their ears.

hinault

J C wrote: »

80 priests taking their own lives, is very sad indeed.

It's actually quite shocking ... and presumbly this is 'the tip of an iceberg' of loneliness and despair.

I do have great sympathy for the plight of the, mostly elderly, male and female clergy of the RCC in Ireland ... practically all of whom are decent Human Beings who have dedicated their lives in service of God and man ... only to now be rewarded, in many cases, with barely concealed contempt, in their twilight years, by many of the very people, they have prayed for and helped down the years ... and through no fault of their own.

I may have theological differences with them ... but, at a Human level, I empathise very much with them in their loneliness and despair.

... perhaps if they were all Saved, this mightn't be happening ... but that is between themselves and God.

I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to be an elderly priest, working harder than they did in their youth, well into their seventies and eighties ... and coming home to an empty cold house every evening, possibly with an insult from an ignorant member of the public ringing in their ears.

Where are you getting 80 priests died by suicide figure from?

The calling to the priesthood is a very special vocation, one that goes far beyond the call of duty. Because of their calling, priests and nuns should be held in esteem, because of their service to their fellow human being.

That is why those clergy who did abuse the trust that was placed in them, not only ruined the lives of their victims, but they ruined too the name and reputation of the honest men and women in the clergy who never put a foot wrong.

The formation of seminarians is absolutely pivotal. And role of spiritual directors is key to this. They are the gatekeepers. It is their job to weed out those who are not fit to have the responsibility and the trust of the church placed in their keep. The spiritual directors who allowed the formation of the likes of Brendan Smyth and Sean Fortune are equally culpable in the ruination of victims and the ruination of the Church.

How scum like Michael Ledwith were allowed become formation directors was truly diabolical.

J C

hinault wrote: »

Where are you getting 80 priests died by suicide figure from?

The calling to the priesthood is a very special vocation, one that goes far beyond the call of duty. Because of their calling, priests and nuns should be held in esteem, because of their service to their fellow human being.

That is why those clergy who did abuse the trust that was placed in them, not only ruined the lives of their victims, but they ruined too the name and reputation of the honest men and women in the clergy who never put a foot wrong.

The formation of seminarians is absolutely pivotal. And role of spiritual directors is key to this. They are the gatekeepers. It is their job to weed out those who are not fit to have the responsibility and the trust of the church placed in their keep. The spiritual directors who allowed the formation of the likes of Brendan Smyth and Sean Fortune are equally culpable in the ruination of victims and the ruination of the Church.

How scum like Michael Ledwith were allowed become formation directors was truly diabolical.

My apologies the article said 8 priests took their own lives ... I made a mistake and mis-read it as 80. mea culpa.

Either way, one life lost to suicide is one too many ... and I can see how RC priests could become depressed, with the current state of their church ... and the lack of respect shown them by many of their former flock.

I know you believe that the priesthood in your church is special ... but your priests are Human too, with all of the weaknesses and strengths of the Human state.

I have had to personally intervene in the street one day, when some random thug decided to take it upon himself to verbally abuse an elderly priest, who told me that, as it was the anniversary of his ordination, he had worn his Roman Collar ... but he said that he wouldn't be doing it again.
I felt so so sad, for this gentle old man and I congratulated him on his long commitment in the service of his church. He said I was the first person to do so that day.

As I'm quite competent in self-defence and with a physique to match, the thug, like the coward that he was, beat a hasty retreat, but not before he had terrorised this lovely old man, who did nothing to encourge such awful behaviour.

This is the ugly underbelly of so-called 'modern post-Catholic ireland' ... and it's not a pretty sight.

uck51js9zml2yt

I was chatting to an elderly man a few months ago who was getting the luas from James hospital into town. We both had appointments!
Turned out he was a priest and up for a few days from Cavan.
We had a great chat about the lack of spiritual awareness in the current populace and the lack of faith which we both agreed was a necessity.

I know my local parish priest from being on the management board of the local school. A very hard working man. He officiated at my mother's funeral a few months ago which was his 2nd that day and I asked him back for lunch. It was probably the first bite to eat he had all day. (It was about 3pm). There were more non RC Christians than Catholics in the church that day and the gospel of hope was preached! It was just a pity he was still hoping she would get to heaven...the rest of us had no doubt she was there as soon as she closed her eyes:)

J C

Jeremias Wooden Koala wrote: »

I was chatting to an elderly man a few months ago who was getting the luas from James hospital into town. We both had appointments!
Turned out he was a priest and up for a few days from Cavan.
We had a great chat about the lack of spiritual awareness in the current populace and the lack of faith which we both agreed was a necessity.

I know my local parish priest from being on the management board of the local school. A very hard working man. He officiated at my mother's funeral a few months ago which was his 2nd that day and I asked him back for lunch. It was probably the first bite to eat he had all day. (It was about 3pm). There were more non RC Christians than Catholics in the church that day and the gospel of hope was preached! It was just a pity he was still hoping she would get to heaven...the rest of us had no doubt she was there as soon as she closed her eyes

Amen to that, brother.

It's so great to be Saved ... and to know that you are Saved ... and under the eternal loving protection of Jesus Christ ... who is far better.

My wife and I were out for a meal one snowy evening last winter and the person at the table next to us turned out to be a Roman Catholic priest ... and he told us that he came into the hotel to warm up as he was out all day attending various functions and he didn't want to face home to a cold lonely house, before bedtime.
He agreed that it was long past time that RC priests should be allowed to marry ... but said that it would be too late for him, even if it was allowed, in the morning.

He was a lovely friendly man who would have made a great husband and father (in the non-priestly sense of the word).:)

hinault

J C wrote: »

My apologies the article said 8 priests took their own lives ... I made a mistake and mis-read it as 80. mea culpa.

Either way, one life lost to suicide is one too many ... and I can see how RC priests could become depressed, with the current state of their church ... and the lack of respect shown them by many of their former flock.

I know you believe that the priesthood in your church is special ... but your priests are Human too, with all of the weaknesses and strengths of the Human state..

I agree that priests/clergy are human beings. A vocation such as the priesthood though is a special calling.

You allude to a point which the Catholic laity need to take on board namely support our priests. Support them in their vocation.

J C wrote: »

I have had to personally intervene in the street one day, when some random thug decided to take it upon himself to verbally abuse an elderly priest, who told me that, as it was the anniversary of his ordination, he had worn his Roman Collar ... but he said that he wouldn't be doing it again.
I felt so so sad, for this gentle old man and I congratulated him on his long commitment in the service of his church. He said I was the first person to do so that day.

As I'm quite competent in self-defence and with a physique to match, the thug, like the coward that he was, beat a hasty retreat, but not before he had terrorised this lovely old man, who did nothing to encourge such awful behaviour.

This is the ugly underbelly of so-called 'modern post-Catholic ireland' ... and it's not a pretty sight.

I'd sincerely like to say thank you for doing this.

Thank you for stepping in and defending this man in the street.

J C

hinault wrote: »

I agree that priests/clergy are human beings. A vocation such as the priesthood though is a special calling.

You allude to a point which the Catholic laity need to take on board namely support our priests. Support them in their vocation.

... and support them also as Human Beings ... who need love and Human kindness, like the rest of us.

As an aside to the 'special calling' that you say RC priests have, my wife says that her grandmother told her to never let anybody tell you that you have a 'special talent' for something ... because it's usually a prelude to asking you to do something difficult, that they wouldn't do themselves.:)
Her granny was a wise old lady indeed.

hinault wrote: »

I'd sincerely like to say thank you for doing this.

Thank you for stepping in and defending this man in the street.

Thanks Hinault, for your gracious words, but there is no need to thank me ... it was an instinctual reaction ... and my reward was seeing a smile return to that nice old man's face, as we shook hands and exchanged pleasantries after his ordeal.